Ramadan and women

[Michael]

Islam and slavery
- It should be noted Jews and Christians also practiced Slavery.
- Slavery is cruel and Institutionalizing it is sick. Islamic Christian and Jewish apologist can suck hairy balls on that one.

Slavery in medieval Europe

Arab slave trade

Slavery in the United States

Judaism and slavery

Women's rights in Saudi Arabia

Women’s freedom of movement is strongly limited in Saudi Arabia. They are not supposed to leave their houses or their local neighbourhood without the permission of their male guardian, and company of a mahram (close male relative). However, out of necessity most women leave the house alone and often have contact with unrelated men to shop or conduct business.[11][67]

In general, women are not allowed to drive, although it is tolerated in rural areas. Most scholars and religious authorities have declared it haram (forbidden).[15] Commonly given reasons for the prohibition on women driving include:[68][69]

1. Driving a car involves uncovering the face which is considered obligatory for women to cover in Saudi.
2. Driving a car may lead women to go out of house more often.
3. Driving a car may lead women to have interaction with non-mahram males, for example at traffic accidents.
4. Women driving cars may lead to overcrowding the streets and many young men may be deprived of the opportunity to drive.
5. Driving would be the first step in an erosion of traditional values, such as gender segregation.

Women are generally discouraged from using public transportation. It's technically forbidden, but unenforced, for women to take taxis or hire private drivers, since it causes khalwa (illegal mixing with a non-mahram man).[70] Women have limited access to bus and train service. When it is allowed, they must use a separate entrance and sit in back section reserved for women.[60] However, the bus companies with the widest coverage in Riyadh and Jeddah don't allow women at all.[71]

 

[Shadow1]

.

oh, arab slavery, but, where's the muslims slavery?

 

[Shadow1]

.

No, none at all. Hence you will not be surprised to learn that NOWHERE in the Qur'an does it say that women cannot worship, recite scripture or perform salat during menstruation. It is an innovation borrowed from other religions or a hangover of older tribal customs.

According to the Qur'an the worship of Allah is equally distributed between men and women



The verse on ablution is very clear and detailed and makes no mention of menstruating women:

don't waste your time with him, like he caires, he want to hear what to want to hear.

 

[Shadow1]

Women's rights in Saudi Arabia

...you said it, saudi arabia, saudi arabia is not the only muslim country...why are you so sick with saudi arabia? leave it alone!
like if it was the only country in the world...
and...oh forget it, why am i discussing with you!

...




















???

 

[Shadow1]

.

Islam banned slavery? When, pal?

Anway, Arab history hardly matters when it comes to muslim atrocities on Hindus.

Pal, islam did not ban enslaving of non muslims. Period. Don't put facts on their head.

HEEY S.A.M.
help, i'm not good with history, and i don't memorize the verses from quran, so can you help me here?
because islam DID bann slavery, but who said all people did bann it.


hey rcscwc, S.A.M. will make it more clear, i'm not very good with history nor detailing.

 

[S.A.M.]

HEEY S.A.M.
help, i'm not good with history, and i don't memorize the verses from quran, so can you help me here?
because islam DID bann slavery, but who said all people did bann it.


hey rcscwc, S.A.M. will make it more clear, i'm not very good with history nor detailing.

wiki is your friend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_social_changes_under_Islam

One of the most important contributions of Islam was the rule of meritocracy - the notion that birth, lineage, caste, family and social standing was irrelevant, only actions were important. In Islam there is no authority apart from God. So even a "slave" was paid. The Sultan stood in line with the Jannisars to obtain his salary - and the Sultans were deposed by the "slaves" when they did not meet with their approval, ultimately the Jannisars overthrew the Sultanate. The problem with Muslims today is that they ignore the Qur'an and follow "tradition" rather than scripture.

 

[Bebelina]

Just as a sidenote, what are all you muslim men doing in a thread about women when it's Ramadan?

 

[Shadow1]

.

wiki is your friend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_social_changes_under_Islam

One of the most important contributions of Islam was the rule of meritocracy - the notion that birth, lineage, caste, family and social standing was irrelevant, only actions were important. In Islam there is no authority apart from God. So even a "slave" was paid. The Sultan stood in line with the Jannisars to obtain his salary - and the Sultans were deposed by the "slaves" when they did not meet with their approval, ultimately the Jannisars overthrew the Sultanate. The problem with Muslims today is that they ignore the Qur'an and follow "tradition" rather than scripture.

thanks for help

here rcscwc

 

[Shadow1]

.

Just as a sidenote, what are all you muslim men doing in a thread about women when it's Ramadan?

i have no idea!
and we're not all muslims,

 

[Bebelina]

I know, but to those who are.

 

[(Q)]

The problem with Muslims today is that they ignore the Qur'an and follow "tradition" rather than scripture.

Then, what is the point of having Islam and having those who follow tradition claim to espouse Islam and preach it to everyone else?

 

[(Q)]

No, none at all. Hence you will not be surprised to learn that NOWHERE in the Qur'an does it say that women cannot worship, recite scripture or perform salat during menstruation. It is an innovation borrowed from other religions or a hangover of older tribal customs.

Are you saying that Yosef is lying about what the Quran states?

 

[Lori_7]

Is there some reason why a woman can not pray to the Gods while menstruating? I mean, am I the only one who thinks that's asinine? Is there ANY logic at all behind this?

perhaps god doesn't want to hear all the whining, nagging, and bitching that goes on that time of the month. j/k

perhaps our prayers during that time of the month would result in the annihilation of the entire human race.

 

[Bebelina]

I just got a copy of the Koran in my hands, so I'm going to read all about it.

 

[spidergoat]

The problem with Muslims today is that they ignore the Qur'an and follow "tradition" rather than scripture.

Maybe that's because many of them cannot read.

 

[786]

Maybe that's because many of them cannot read.

And maybe you don't know what 'tradition' stands for in the context SAM is talking about...

Peace be unto you

 

[786]

I just got a copy of the Koran in my hands, so I'm going to read all about it.

So you have a copy in your hand but you will read about it, but not read it?

You don't need to Koran (Quran) to read about it-

Peace be unto you

 

[S.A.M.]

Maybe that's because many of them cannot read.

Thats correct. There are those who were surprised when informed that FGM does not come from the Qur'an, they have yet to discover that neither does circumcision. In fact, its surprising how many so called religious practices have no basis in the Qur'an. The practice of isolating women during menstruation for example is seen in Jains. They do not permit women to even enter a kitchen during menstruation, she is considered so unclean. A separate set of vessels is maintained for her so she can cook food for herself apart from the rest of the family. I haven't looked at it but I am pretty sure that there must be other communities predating Islam where menstruation is considered a reason for forbidding prayer and worship. It is much harder to shake off the shackles of custom hence Mohammed's directive :

"Do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran should delete it." (Musnad Ahmad, Number 10713)

Of course, that is one hadith that is consistently set aside without a qualm.

 

[spidergoat]

You would think with the perfection of Islam, that it might also value literacy.

 

[S.A.M.]

It does, the very first verse revealed was : Iqra bismi Rabbi kal- ladhi khalaqa: (Read in the name of your Lord Who created) [Surah al Alaq]

And also

"[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."


"[22:46] Did they not roam the earth, then use their minds to understand, and use their ears to hear? Indeed, the real blindness is not the blindness of the eyes, but the blindness of the hearts inside the chests."

"[29:20] Say: Travel through the earth and see how Allah originated creation"

"[20:114] Do not be in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to you is completed, but say, "O my Sustainer! Increase my knowledge."

It would seem however, that what tradition maintains is more valuable than simply reading the Quran and learning what it says or more importantly, what it does not say. Muslims forget that this is how the gospels were lost, by depending on what people said about the gospels, rather than the words themselves.

"[39:9] Say: Are those who know and those who do not know alike? "

If you don't know what the Qur'an says or does not say, how can you claim to be following it? The way I figure it, if it was a requirement of faith, it would be mentioned in the Qur'an - if its not mentioned in the Qur'an its a form of bidaah. Nothing wrong with religious interpretation so long as you know, quite clearly, that it has no basis in the Qur'an and comes entirely from custom or tradition.

don't waste your time with him, like he caires, he want to hear what to want to hear.

No one knows that better than I. Michael and I have been doing this for over four years. While he dreams of female homosexual imams in the Cordoba mosque, he neglects to recall that Americans do not even have a female leader of a political party!

Perhaps he should dream of a lesbian atheist President instead, thats something he can work towards with his own vote. Still inspite of his repetitive mode, his concern for the Muslim community is both remarkable and touching.

Then, what is the point of having Islam and having those who follow tradition claim to espouse Islam and preach it to everyone else?

Exactly. You said it.

As Kabir says:

Jaka guru hai andhla,
chela hai ja chandh.
Andhe andha Theliya,
dunyu koop parant


If the Guru be blind
the disciple is alson blind:
When the blind lead the blind
both fall into well! .

Are you saying that Yosef is lying about what the Quran states?

I am quite certain that Yosef believes the Qur'an states such and such, its easy enough to verify if it does or does not. All you have to do, is read it. And its a good month for spending some time on the scriptures too.