Ramadan and women

i can understand to a point, about the need to cover women up,some women are very distracting, others are not.to make it a rule for every woman to cover up completely bypasses any responsibility to moderate oneself, that goes for both women and men..

is it the koran(?) that says women should be covered or is it mans law?
if the koran, then what does it say about self control?

(excuse me if i get the book's name messed up.)
 
Shadow1 said:
pleas, don't say that islam say and tell them to do so, i mean, maghreb countries are also muslim nations, etc... and i know most arab gulf men, are sick people, they see a woman, they go mad... anyway, women do drive in KSA.
and i saw that one of the nose off in the newspapers here.
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It's not just those examples Shadow1.

- Explain to me why Islamic nations didn't ban Slavery in 1400 years?
- Why did the Taliban blow up those 2500 year old Buddhists?
- Why do the Pakistani have laws (I mean real LEGAL CODE HERE) referring to Ahmadiyya Muslims as Heretics?
- Why are homosexual adult Iranian men made to have their penis chopped off in Iran - if they want to live with a male partner (or else hanged)?
- Why can't women drive in KSA?
- Why can rich Muslim men practice polygamy but not rich Muslim women?
- Why are Mandeans persecuted in Iraq?
- Why did Indonesian Muslims vote to legally ban Ahmadiyya Islam?
- Why are there no Hindu Temples in KSA for the polytheist Hindu Indians that live and work there?
- Why did some Muslim rulers in India TAX the INDIGENOUS HINDU INDIANS for the privilege of practicing their own Hindu religion?
- Why are there no classical sculptures of humans from Classical Islam?
- Where are the great modern Muslim violinists? Pianists? Where are the modern Operas? modern Islamic Ballets?
- Why are Muslim women still murdered in HONOR killing all the f*cking way over in Britain?



If Islam was supposed to make the world a better place it utterly failed.
It's really that simple.

I mean - IT really IS THAT simple Shadow1. IF Islam was going to make the world better - it has failed. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations from Indonesia to KSA are some of the poorest and more repressive place to live on the planet. Which is why so many millions of Muslims are trying to escape their own Islamic societies to the West and East.
The No True Scotsman fallacy just doesn't hold water.



Tell me, why was it that the Chinese paid for and built a Muslim quarter complete with Mosques for their Muslims guests (in the then largest city in the world - Chang'an). Whereas the Muslims never built anything at all for the Buddhist Chinese they traded with in Baghdad? Where are the Buddhist Temples Shadow1?





There's an underlying fundamental problem with certain philosophies. But, I have found you can explain to a WASP white supremest that race is an illusion until your blue in the face, she'll just look at her skin as laugh in your face, happy in the knowledge Whites are superior to Black or Arabs. Sure, once in awhile a WASP knifes a pregnant Portuguese woman to death on a train - but that has nothing, nothing at all to do with White Supremacist philosophy, it was a one off. White Supremacist means peace.
 
The real reason why women are covered and separate is because that's the historical precedent. Trying to explain why now is really just making up reasons - pulling them out of ones ass. To find the real reasons we'd need to look at where in the pre-Islamic history this precedence was set. I'd look towards Byzantine as they ruled the area and were the cultural force of the era.

Think of Islam as very conservative Christianity and things seem to fit in place a bit better.
 
So Lori you think its okay to be completely nude in society? I'm not going to waste my time with (Q) or Michael, but I think I can have a discussion with you.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
spidergoat said:
The real reason is that if you can control sex, you can control anything in a culture.
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It does seem that Christians had a fear and almost hatred of women. 1100s Europeans have a lot to say about the evils of women menstruation - it causes men and dogs to go mad, fouls the air, kills crops, it could even "infect" a man by line-of-sight ... essentially women were considered poison.

I wonder how Muslim's view women menstruating? I mean, it's a very natural process of a woman's life. Is it considered natural or a form of impurity and evil (like the Christians thought 600 years ago)? Are there any asinine considerations menstruating women have to subject themselves to during Ramadan?
 
.

Michael said:
It's not just those examples Shadow1.

- Explain to me why Islamic nations didn't ban Slavery in 1400 years?
- Why did the Taliban blow up those 2500 year old Buddhists?
- Why do the Pakistani have laws (I mean real LEGAL CODE HERE) referring to Ahmadiyya Muslims as Heretics?
- Why are homosexual adult Iranian men made to have their penis chopped off in Iran - if they want to live with a male partner (or else hanged)?
- Why can't women drive in KSA?
- Why can rich Muslim men practice polygamy but not rich Muslim women?
- Why are Mandeans persecuted in Iraq?
- Why did Indonesian Muslims vote to legally ban Ahmadiyya Islam?
- Why are there no Hindu Temples in KSA for the polytheist Hindu Indians that live and work there?
- Why did some Muslim rulers in India TAX the INDIGENOUS HINDU INDIANS for the privilege of practicing their own Hindu religion?
- Why are there no classical sculptures of humans from Classical Islam?
- Where are the great modern Muslim violinists? Pianists? Where are the modern Operas? modern Islamic Ballets?
- Why are Muslim women still murdered in HONOR killing all the f*cking way over in Britain?



If Islam was supposed to make the world a better place it utterly failed.
It's really that simple.

I mean - IT really IS THAT simple Shadow1. IF Islam was going to make the world better - it has failed. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations from Indonesia to KSA are some of the poorest and more repressive place to live on the planet. Which is why so many millions of Muslims are trying to escape their own Islamic societies to the West and East.
The No True Scotsman fallacy just doesn't hold water
Tell me, why was it that the Chinese paid for and built a Muslim quarter complete with Mosques for their Muslims guests (in the then largest city in the world - Chang'an). Whereas the Muslims never built anything at all for the Buddhist Chinese they traded with in Baghdad? Where are the Buddhist Temples Shadow1?
There's an underlying fundamental problem with certain philosophies. But, I have found you can explain to a WASP white supremest that race is an illusion until your blue in the face, she'll just look at her skin as laugh in your face, happy in the knowledge Whites are superior to Black or Arabs. Sure, once in awhile a WASP knifes a pregnant Portuguese woman to death on a train - but that has nothing, nothing at all to do with White Supremacist philosophy, it was a one off. White Supremacist means peace.
Click to expand...

hmm, let me make a short answer, because discussing with you is useless as i expreienced before, and it seems you are angry and mad right now, i can see it, anyway, all those phrases, wich honestly i didnt read the rest of this post, also, it seems you know nothing about the arab nations, wich are muslim, history, you don't know any any thing about them, or even about islam, islam did bann slavery, but it seems some still do it in some parts of history, knowing that that slavery, even that is few, after islam, they weren't like the slaves like you think, anyway it's usless again, to discuss with you anything, why are you asking ME about why KSA don't let women drive, anyway that's a myth, they drive... get your self educated...sorry Michael, you are a n undiscussuble person, yopu pertend to be open minded , and a person that can discuss, and a person, that not a hypocryte, but it seems, you are all that, don't try to hide your self, and you have a complexe called "islam", as i see, the most threads you are in, or if i say almost all, are about islam, and you're always repeat what you always say, you want to hear what you like, why don't you go to an anti-islam forum or something..i'm reall really sorry because i quoted you post and tryed to discuss or talk to you.
:(
:peace:
 
.

michael said:
it does seem that christians had a fear and almost hatred of women. 1100s europeans have a lot to say about the evils of women menstruation - it causes men and dogs to go mad, fouls the air, kills crops, it could even "infect" a man by line-of-sight ... Essentially women were considered poison.

I wonder how muslim's view women menstruating? I mean, it's a very natural process of a woman's life. Is it considered natural or a form of impurity and evil (like the christians thought 600 years ago)? Are there any asinine considerations menstruating women have to subject themselves to during ramadan?
Click to expand...

ahahahahahahahahaha
 
786 said:
So Lori you think its okay to be completely nude in society? I'm not going to waste my time with (Q) or Michael, but I think I can have a discussion with you.

Peace be unto you ;)
Click to expand...

yes, it should be, if it's comfortable to do so. i mean, don't get me wrong, i like fashion as a means of artistic expression, but i don't think it should be that big of a deal.

and don't get me wrong, i hate it when people are seedy about it. it's the seediness that ruins everything.

and in a general sense, in regards to the OP, it's extremely unlikely that i would support any idea that perpetuates segregation. communion is what it's all about.

and it's not going to happen by magic. people are actually going to have to start doing the right thing all the time, and quit making excuses.
 
i want to add too that i know i'm arguing an ideal. one that can not and will not be achieved in this age of humanity. i do that a lot. i can't help it; i'm very kingdom-minded. and i think that day is right around the corner. i'm done trying to figure out the best way to compensate for doing things the wrong way. i want the right answer, and i feel like it's my responsibility to think about these things, and question everything, and not just fall back on the way it's always been done. the way it's always been done has culminated into the state of humanity today and it sucks. and if i'm given a chance to start over and make a change, i want to, and i sure as hell never want to end up back in a place like this again.
 
spidergoat said:
The real reason is that if you can control sex, you can control anything in a culture.
Click to expand...

that's a good point, and i think it's about time to start controlling ourselves instead of relying on religion, and governments, and other institutions to do that for us.

i mean, do we really think that god wants us all segregated up, into our little buildings, donning our little costumes, on our knees and chanting like drones? why in the hell would he?! :confused: what good is that doing? what purpose is that serving?

god wants your life. worship is your behavior 24/7, based in faith, based in knowledge of god. your praise is your sincere gratitude. your prayers are your thoughts and desires. you don't need a wall for that.
 
You know, you tell people something good, and instead of understanding it, they frame your words in gold and build elaborate rituals around the event of your telling them something.
 
spidergoat said:
You know, you tell people something good, and instead of understanding it, they frame your words in gold and build elaborate rituals around the event of your telling them something.
Click to expand...

that's religion.
 
i'd like to dedicate this song to jesus (if you don't mind Q). this song is so beautiful...i think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEW8riKU_tE

edit: that song is a prayer. and i'd mean every last word of it, with a wink, because i know it's coming. i know it.

edit 2X: and i'd bet good money, that trent could perform that prayer, just as well, and just as passionately, if there had been a hot, naked, asian chick standing next to the piano. you know why? because he's over it, that's why.
 
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Michael said:
It does seem that Christians had a fear and almost hatred of women. 1100s Europeans have a lot to say about the evils of women menstruation - it causes men and dogs to go mad, fouls the air, kills crops, it could even "infect" a man by line-of-sight ... essentially women were considered poison.

I wonder how Muslim's view women menstruating? I mean, it's a very natural process of a woman's life. Is it considered natural or a form of impurity and evil (like the Christians thought 600 years ago)? Are there any asinine considerations menstruating women have to subject themselves to during Ramadan?
Click to expand...
Google: menstruation ramadan
About 839,000 results (0.11 seconds)

Menstruation
- During the menstrual period a woman should cease to carry out her prayers.

- Sexual intercourse is prohibited during the menstrual period. Various authors reported that it plays an aetiological role in male urethritis, introduction or flare up of infection in the female genetical tract and increased uterine bleeding. Other literature claims that it bears no harms whatsoever, but this comes from quarters that also exonerated homosexuality (more with the homophobia which is pretty much part and parcel Islam) and anal coitus from having any harm.

- During Hajj (pilgrimage) or umra (ritual visit to Kaaba) menstruation prohibits a woman from the Tawaf (circumnavigation or walking around the Kaaba for seven turns) which is an integral part of the proceedings.

- There is no religious basis to blemish this practice of willfull postponement of menstruation. The legal dictum maintains that originally all things are permitted except those that are specifically prohibited. The practice fulfills one of the goals of jurisprudence, which is to make things easier for people.
(what he means is for women to use chemicals to alter her body so she isn't impure and can perform her duties to God while not menstruating)





--
Let me guess, this crazy BS isn't "Islamic" either? It never is.... is it? ;)
 
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During the menstrual period the woman should not fast and make prayers (that is the ones involving bodily movement). Sexual intercourse is prohibited during the menstrual period (not only in Ramadan). In Ramadan, all sexual activity is prohibited from sunrise to sunset. These are the commands of God as outlined in the Quran and in Prophet's (pbuh) sayings.

As to prayers on knees and all that, God says that it is His will that the three religions should have their own unique features. This is what God says in chapter (5) "The Table" of the Holy Quran, named after the Last supper of Jesus and His apostles:

"(46) And in the footsteps of the prophets caused we Jesus, the son of Mary, to follow, confirming the law which was before him: and we gave him the Evangel with its guidance and light, confirmatory of the preceding Law; a guidance and warning to those who fear God; - (47) And that the people of the Evangel may judge according to what God hath sent down therein. And whoso will not judge by what God hath sent down - such are the perverse. (48) And to thee we have sent down the Book of the Koran with truth, confirmatory of previous Scriptures, and their safeguard. Judge therefore between them by what God hath sent down, and follow not their desires by deserting the truth which hath come unto thee. To every one of you have we given a rule and a beaten track. And if God had pleased He had surely made you all one people; but He would test you by what He hath given to each. Be emulous, then, in good deeds. To God shall ye all return, and He will tell you concerning the subjects of your disputes. (49) Wherefore do thou judge between them, by what God hath sent down, and follow not their wishes! but be on thy guard against them lest they beguile thee from any of those precepts which God hath sent down to thee; and if they turn back, then know thou that for some of their crimes doth God choose to punish them: for truly most men (people) are perverse." (50) Desire they, therefore, the judgments of the times of(pagan) ignorance? But what better judge can there be than God for those who believe firmly?"

Back to the issue of covered women. I think I meant to say that desire feelings can bloom significantly even by fixing gaze at a covered woman. It does not mean that one should not get involved in work and education because of that. As men (women too) we are asked to be modest in regard to the sight. Looking lustfully at a woman in street is not advised. In fact, God asks not to do that.

I recall I used to think some time ago: "They are having nice clothes on (short or tight etc), they want to look nice, it's nice sight, why not to look. God, you created them beautiful and ask not to look ?!"

Today this is very different for me and this is because I am aware of the pleasant feeling of obeying the Lord with the whole heart. I seek also God's blessings and God's rewards. I have reverence for God. For me as a believer now, making the unblessed thing and gazing causes my heart to bleed.
 
Is there some reason why a woman can not pray to the Gods while menstruating? I mean, am I the only one who thinks that's asinine? Is there ANY logic at all behind this?
 
Shadow1 said:
hmm, let me make a short answer, because discussing with you is useless as i expreienced before, and it seems you are angry and mad right now, i can see it, anyway, all those phrases, wich honestly i didnt read the rest of this post, also, it seems you know nothing about the arab nations, wich are muslim, history, you don't know any any thing about them, or even about islam, islam did bann slavery, but it seems some still do it in some parts of history, knowing that that slavery, even that is few, after islam, they weren't like the slaves like you think, anyway it's usless again, to discuss with you anything, why are you asking ME about why KSA don't let women drive, anyway that's a myth, they drive... get your self educated...sorry Michael, you are a n undiscussuble person, yopu pertend to be open minded , and a person that can discuss, and a person, that not a hypocryte, but it seems, you are all that, don't try to hide your self, and you have a complexe called "islam", as i see, the most threads you are in, or if i say almost all, are about islam, and you're always repeat what you always say, you want to hear what you like, why don't you go to an anti-islam forum or something..i'm reall really sorry because i quoted you post and tryed to discuss or talk to you.
:(
:peace:
Click to expand...

Islam banned slavery? When, pal?

Anway, Arab history hardly matters when it comes to muslim atrocities on Hindus.

Pal, islam did not ban enslaving of non muslims. Period. Don't put facts on their head.
 
Michael said:
Is there some reason why a woman can not pray to the Gods while menstruating? I mean, am I the only one who thinks that's asinine? Is there ANY logic at all behind this?
Click to expand...

No, none at all. Hence you will not be surprised to learn that NOWHERE in the Qur'an does it say that women cannot worship, recite scripture or perform salat during menstruation. It is an innovation borrowed from other religions or a hangover of older tribal customs.

According to the Qur'an the worship of Allah is equally distributed between men and women

"Our Lord! We have heard someone calling us to faith - "Believe in your Lord" - and we have believed. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, wipe out our bad deeds, and grant that we join the righteous when we die. Our Lord! Bestow upon us all that you have promised us through Your messengers - do not humiliate us on the Day of Resurrection - You never break your promise.' Their Lord has answered them: 'I will not allow the deeds of any one of you to be lost, whether you are male or female, each is like the other.' (Qur'an 3:193-195)
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The verse on ablution is very clear and detailed and makes no mention of menstruating women:

"Believers, when you prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands to the elbows; wipe your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. If you are in a state of ceremonial impurity, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you has relieved himself, or have been in contact with women, and find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand, and rub your faces and hands with it. Allah does not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that you may be grateful." (Qur'an 5:6)
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