Prophet Mohammed Consummated 9-year old "Wife"

[Michael]

The problem is, why doesn't the original story mention anything about BOTH girls being saboteurs or "traitors"?

The story is held up by Muslims as an example why
a) people who mock the Prophet should have their heads cut off and
b) people who quit Islam should have their heads cut off.

It seems that, those are the morals in that particular story.

If it were anything else it seems that such would have been made clear.

Michael

 

[S.A.M.]

What Muslims are "holding up" these stories?

Who has had their head cut off for quitting Islam?

You ignore the real murders your country is engaged in daily and hyperventilate on hypothetical scenarios.

 

[Michael]

It should also be noted that these girls were SLAVES. They were the property of this other fellow. Why would they risk death to be "traitors" and who exactly would they be a 'traitor" against? Their Master?

Secondly, I persoanlly think having the head cut off and brought back to Mohammad like a dog killing and retrieving a rabbit as sick. What kind of sick example does this set? It's pathetic.

Anyway, it's good that you agree that IF Mohammad acts as such because of his being offended then he was evil. Whether such is the case I suppose we'll never know.

 

[S.A.M.]

What kind of "slaves"? Were they prisoners of war? Maidservants? Owned by the right hand ie proteges or adopted?

Because there are all kind of "slaves".

Mohammed was unlikely to be offended by a couple of girls. It goes against his recognised character as a known mediator of disputes. One does not ask the sensitive (likely to devolve into hysterical fonts and hyperbole) to be a mediator.

Its fascinating how much importance you attach to an unsubstantiated rumor while ignoring all substantiated reports. Is this usually how you think?

 

[Michael]

What Muslims are "holding up" these stories?

I read that story from a Islamic News site.

You ignore the real murders your country is engaged in daily and hyperventilate on hypothetical scenarios.

Oh please, I've been against the two wars since before they even began!


Second question: Do you think polygamy promotes female equality or denigrates it?

 

[S.A.M.]

I read that story from a Islamic News site.

And? Its from an Islamic hadith. So what?

Oh please, I've been against the two wars since before they even began!

Yeah, we notice how much compassion you have for the people whose lives have been destroyed. They appreciate your support.

Second question: Do you think polygamy promotes female equality or denigrates it?

I think there are all kinds of people in the world. There are many educated successful women in India in polygamous relationships. So its pointless to generalise.

 

[Michael]

Mohammed was unlikely to be offended by a couple of girls. It goes against his recognised character as a known mediator of disputes. One does not ask the sensitive (likely to devolve into hysterical fonts and hyperbole) to be a mediator.

Mohammad also said he hear voices in his head telling him this and that. Which we must both agree that such people ARE ALWAYS taken as mediators by their followers.

Hell Jim Jones was a mediator.

You have to see things from my point of view. He was lying about the voices SAM. What does this say about his character? Or he was insane - which is worse?

Michael

 

[Michael]

We can not generalize? Why not? In general do polygamist societies grant woman equality?

 

[S.A.M.]

Mohammad also said he hear voices in his head telling him this and that. Which we must both agree that such people ARE ALWAYS taken as mediators by their followers.

Hell Jim Jones was a mediator.

You have to see things from my point of view. He was lying about the voices SAM. What does this say about his character? Or he was insane - which is worse?

Michael

Did he say he heard voices? When was this? To whom did he say it?

 

[S.A.M.]

We can not generalize? Why not? In general do polygamist societies grant woman equality?

You cannot generalise because the presence of polygamy in societies where women are considered (almost) equal shows that polygamy itself has very little to do with status of women. The number of second wives and affairs with married men in all societies itself indicates that women may not care about previous attachments under certain circumstances.

One could say for example, that marriage per se is disadvantageous to the woman, since in highly educated societies, the number of women who choose to stay single is also higher.

In my opinion, it depends on the development in the society.

 

[Michael]

I think that your opinion is biased because you're beleif is based on a person who was a polygamists. Just look at the WIKI article on Joseph Smith and you can see how his poor wife is torn by staying with im and dealing with his lust for other women which was couched in some religious mumble jumble.

Let me ask you this:
Which do you think is more conducive towards equality: polygamy or monogamy?

 

[Michael]

Just take a look at those poor brainwashed half-molested girls in that Texan Mormon cult.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think that your opinion is biased because you're beleif is based on a person who was a polygamists. Just look at the WIKI article on Joseph Smith and you can see how his poor wife is torn by staying with im and dealing with his lust for other women which was couched in some religious mumble jumble.

Let me ask you this:
Which do you think is more conducive towards equality: polygamy or monogamy?

Or maybe because I come from a society where we are not very hung up on love marriages. :shrug:

 

[Norsefire]

Although such marriages might have occured, they are virtually nonexistent in any Arab nation.

Secondly, Europeans also married quite early during the same time period. What people don't understand is that Muhummad lived in an entirely different time, different customs, standards, etc, with both Europe and the Mid East.


In fact, Shakespeare's play "Romeo and Juliet" involves Juliet at the age of 13 being firstly assigned to marry a 35+ year old man. Certainly a massive difference. Although Romeo was 16, nonetheless such marriages occured in Europe.

 

[Michael]

Perhaps Mohammad was trying to give women a bit better of a deal. Although the poly-Arabs are so demonised its hard to know just how well off the women were before Islam. Mohammad's wife seemed to control her how destiny (and that of Mohammad's) one can only assume not all girls were "buried in the dirt".

 

[Kadark]

Two issues need to be addressed here:

1) Aisha was not six or nine at the age of marriage. She was, in all likelihood, around eighteen or nineteen.

2) Polygamy can be just as conductive towards gender equality as monogamy if all the wives are treated and cared for equally. It's interesting that societies which allow polygamy have substantially lower divorce rates than those which are purely monogamous by nature. Just sayin'.

 

[S.A.M.]

Perhaps Mohammad was trying to give women a bit better of a deal. Although the poly-Arabs are so demonised its hard to know just how well off the women were before Islam. Mohammad's wife seemed to control her how destiny (and that of Mohammad's) one can only assume not all girls were "buried in the dirt".

Money makes a lot of difference. Khadija was enormously wealthy. She was also an atheist when she met Mohammed, so she was apart from the idol worshipping Arabs.

Clearly all his notions about women and how they should be treated were from his long marriage to her.

 

[S.A.M.]

Two issues need to be addressed here:

2) Polygamy can be just as conductive towards gender equality as monogamy if all the wives are treated and cared for equally. It's interesting that societies which allow polygamy have substantially lower divorce rates than those which are purely monogamous by nature. Just sayin'.

Its more moral to simply abandon the wife or wives for a newer model

Though its interesting that even a woman like Hillary Clinton overlooked her hubby getting oral sex in the Oval Office.

 

[Michael]

Secondly, Europeans also married quite early during the same time period. What people don't understand is that Muhummad lived in an entirely different time, different customs, standards, etc, with both Europe and the Mid East.

Yes, I said I understand and that Mohammad was not a pedophile and was simply a product of his time and place. BUT, I also maintain that a forward thinking person would have set a better example, been a monogamist and adopted Aisha.

In fact, Shakespeare's play "Romeo and Juliet" involves Juliet at the age of 13 being firstly assigned to marry a 35+ year old man. Certainly a massive difference. Although Romeo was 16, nonetheless such marriages occured in Europe.

I wonder if any Shakespearean enthusiast would have implicitly understood that the marriage to the boy her age was the more appropriate? I mean, he didn't pick another 40 year old man but instead a person of the same age because they could fall in love together - as is natural for two young people around that age.

 

[Michael]

Aisha was not six or nine at the age of marriage. She was, in all likelihood, around eighteen or nineteen..

Do you suppose the relationship was itself monogamist? By that I mean, perhaps Mohammad had other "wives" but didn't have sex with them? Maybe he was just their caretaker?