Of course it was plagiarized. The fables are nearly identical, that only happens when someone is copying.
Yes, Mo was a product of his culture and environment.
Prophet Mohammed Consummated 9-year old "Wife"
- Thread starter Woody
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Yes, Mo was a product of his culture and environment.
Some Muslim historians say that the girl was not 9 years old but rather 14 years old and that the Hadith is flawed
Mohommad was known to be a man, imperfect, and not even close to being Allah, but a messenger
The most important part of Islam is the Five Pillars anyway, so its really not important
Mohommad was known to be a man, imperfect, and not even close to being Allah, but a messenger
The most important part of Islam is the Five Pillars anyway, so its really not important
I don't really follow religion, I think it divides up people into groups
Bells
Staff member
Don't ever read any historical books or novels. Hell, don't ever read Jane Austen.
In olden times, a girl was virtually deemed an old maid if she was not married by the age of 18. It was quite normal for young teenage girls (especially) to marry at a very young age.
hehe... Mary is the word for Mother from the root Ma which is a natural utterance of babies.
But anyway. For the sake of argument. Lets suppose someone, anyone, were to consummate a marriage with a 9 year old. Do you think this is wrong or that this is OK?
If some nice 50 year old man who hears voices of God in his head and had a band of followers wants to consummate his marriage with your 9 year old do you
a) say sure here you go
b) tell the old man to get stffed
c) call the police
But anyway. For the sake of argument. Lets suppose someone, anyone, were to consummate a marriage with a 9 year old. Do you think this is wrong or that this is OK?
If some nice 50 year old man who hears voices of God in his head and had a band of followers wants to consummate his marriage with your 9 year old do you
a) say sure here you go
b) tell the old man to get stffed
c) call the police
Those sources then have Joseph traveling all over the place for years afterwards doing carpentry, and walking to distant cities to do things like fetch Jesus from the Temple, when he was 102.SAM said:
Others in the same set of stories having lived to be five and six hundred years old, of course.
So is that the kind of plausible reliability we can also attribute to the official accounts of Mohammed ?
So because it was ok for Mo to marry a 9 or 14 year old or whatever 1500 years ago, that it is still acceptable today. Is that what you are saying?
Pretty much. It was forbidden to record any hadiths in Mohammed's lifetime (thats actually from one of the hadiths, ironically) and it was adhered to for a hundred years after. Following that, initial hadiths were simply collected, once people realised how many there were, some attempt at credibility was made by attaching the chain of narration or isnad. But most were collected between 200 to 400 years after Mohammeds death. They were collected from anyone and everyone, since there was no way of knowing if any particular pronouncement was accurate or not. Many were backed up from various sources, many could not be traced to a reliable source, etc. The accuracy of transmission itself says nothing about the veracity of a hadith.
Muslim scholars have classified various Hadiths. A Hadith can be 'sahih'(sound/authentic), 'hasan sahih' (higher level than sahih but lower than sahih),'hasan'(approved), 'hasan sahih gharib' (hasan in regard to soundness but gharib in regard to chain of transmitters), 'gharib' (uncommon, number of narrators is reduced to one at any stage), 'mutawatir' (continuous), 'mashhur' (well known), 'da'if'(weak), 'mawdu' (forged), 'marsal' (forwarded), 'marfu' (traced directly), 'mudallas' (deceptive), 'shadh' (isolated), 'munkar' (disapproved), 'munqati' (disjoined), 'muttasil' (joined), 'maqtu' (broken), 'mawquf' (suspended), 'matruk' (abandoned), 'mu'aalaq' (one or more consecutive transmitters are omitted), 'mahfudh' (contradictory), 'hadith qudsi' (holy narration).
So why do we keep them around, with all these anomalies?
Historic value:
Wilferd Madelung - "work with the narrative sources, both those that have been available to historians for a long time and others which have been published recently, made it plain that their wholesale rejection as late fiction is unjustified and that with [not without] a judicious use of them, a much more reliable and accurate portrait of the period can be drawn than has been realized so far."
Most Muslims know this and accord them credibility based on their level of knowledge and education rather than piety. Bukhari for instance, declared that only about 4000 of his 600,000 collected hadiths was probably accurate. And he is considered to be the most accurate.
Bukhari sounds like quite the quirky fellow himself, from anecdotes surviving about him (about as much credible as his hadiths, presumably)
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Is that why they are doing it?
Aren't you supposed to be a scientist? Whats the definition of plagiarism?
Islam is not a new religion and Mohammed has never pretended it was.
You'll find not only the Christian and Jewish scriptures named in the Quran* (which in itself is something extraordinary in any world scriptures), but also the acknowledgement that there have been unnamed prophets throughout time around the world.
*this is called a citation and you should look up what that means. Its what you do when you plagiarise other authors in your manuscripts.
