Osama Bin Laden is Dead

[S.A.M.]

Some un-kosher news:

US official: New tape may be last from bin Laden

Published: 05.02.11, 23:15 / Israel News

US intelligence officials believe Osama bin Laden made a propaganda recording shortly before his death and expect that tape to surface soon.


It is unclear whether the tape is audio or video, but a US official says that intelligence indicates it is already working its way through al-Qaeda's media pipeline. The official said the timing was coincidental and there is no indication he knew US forces were bearing down on him. (AP)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4063657,00.html

Waiting on the NEW Osama tape...

A little flashback:

After a week of debilitating strikes at targets across Afghanistan, the Taliban repeated an offer to hand over Osama bin Laden, only to be rejected by President Bush.

The offer yesterday from Haji Abdul Kabir, the Taliban’s deputy prime minister, to surrender Mr bin Laden if America would halt its bombing and provide evidence against the Saudi-born dissident was not new but it suggested the Taliban are increasingly weary of the air strikes, which have crippled much of their military and communications assets.

The move came as the Taliban granted foreign journalists unprecedented access to the interior for the first time. Reporters were escorted to the village of Karam in southern Afghanistan, where the Taliban said up to 200 civilians were killed in an American bombardment last Wednesday.

The reporters saw clear evidence that many civilians had been killed in the attack, though they could not confirm the number of deaths. “I ask America not to kill us,” pleaded Hussain Khan, who said he had lost four children in the raid. In the rubble of one house, the remains of an arm stuck out from beneath a pile of bricks. A leg had been uncovered near by.

Another old man said: “We are poor people, don’t hit us. We have nothing to do with Osama bin Laden. We are innocent people.” Washington has not commented on the bombardment.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...iban-offer-to-surrender-bin-laden-631436.html

 

[StrawDog]

I don't believe in revenge fantasies. Self defence yes, not revenge

Quite. The barbaric national ecstasy at this revenge killing is a clear indication of Americas utterly bankrupt moral compass. A steady decline into barbarism is the mark of dying empires from time immemorial.

And of course this utterly childish national high, a celebration of murderous revenge, crusader style, sheds no tears for the countless innocent civilians sacrificed in US revenge assaults on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and now Libya. Each an every human being quite as innocent as the victims of 9/11 :m:

 

[S.A.M.]

Quite. The barbaric national ecstasy at this revenge killing is a clear indication of Americas utterly bankrupt moral compass. A steady decline into barbarism is the mark of dying empires from time immemorial.

And of course this utterly childish national high, a celebration of murderous revenge, crusader style, sheds no tears for the countless innocent civilians sacrificed in US revenge assaults on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and now Libya. Each an every human being quite as innocent as the victims of 9/11 :m:

Sarah Hawas has written a piece on dancing Americans at mondoweiss:

The idea of celebrating any death is repulsive. But perhaps, if anyone living today might venture even a sigh of relief at the capture (at least) of Osama Bin Laden (and the presumed symbolic defeat of Al Qaeda, whatever that might mean), it is the countless Muslims and Arabs that have, since 9/11, paid with their lives and dignity, directly and indirectly, for his atrocious acts in the name of countering imperialism and defending Islam. But if you don't see us dancing in the streets today it is because Al-Qaeda is and has been beyond irrelevant for years. For the last decade, the US War on Terror has reproduced the Osama Bin Laden fiction, transforming him from a relic of Cold War alliances to a contemporary alibi for the brutal invasion and murderous missions in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Those of us that know history did not begin on September 11th have been resisting the abrasive, suffocating encroachment of imperialist and reactionary elements on our lives and identities, building up to the present moment of revolution: between Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and the rest of the region, Arabs, Muslim or otherwise, are fighting to end the age of US puppet regimes on their own terms. One cannot help but wonder what "victory" the United States can claim in the murder of Osama Bin Laden on Pakistani soil.

The victory, we are told, is in delivering justice. But what measure of justice, and for whom? The governments of this world - a global war-profiteering military-industrial complex spoken for by corporate media - have pulled the trigger on Osama Bin Laden in time to save Obama's re-election campaign, and to mute the significance of May Day in a climate of increased precarity and dispossession. By funnelling the opium of patriotism (America's exception to nationalism), Obama might well be preparing the American people for another decade of war, and is undoubtedly shooting the already paralyzed working and tax-paying American in the foot. Five months into a year that has thus far been marked by revolutionary winds, Americans that stood in solidarity with the Egyptian revolution and the ongoing Arab uprisings, many of the same people that were inspired by our movements and held signs saying "Walk Like an Egyptian" in Wisconsin, may now very well be celebrating at Ground Zero in a bizarre performance of patriotism, despite ten years that have left us with a crippled Iraq, a devastated Afghanistan, and the loss of millions of lives, including those of Americans.

In effect, this theatrical display does not pay tribute to the victims of 9/11 (may they rest in peace), nor does it give more meaning to the lives of dead soldiers or the victims of the American-led missions in the region. It is an ecstatic tribute to a death-machine in which the only winners have been a global capitalist elite: arms companies, security apparati, criminal (and in many cases, outgoing) authoritarian regimes, and the many corporations that thrive on disaster. Even more offensive in the Ground Zero party is the continued racialization of what constitutes a grievable human life, such that similar celebrations (by minorities) following 9/11 were seen as evidence of an innately violent culture of death, but popular celebrations of an empty assassination valorize a fictional "justice". Osama Bin Laden is symbolic, but in effect what many Americans today seem to celebrate is a vicious cycle of violence, a historic tradition in which real or invented causes are allowed to take precedence over collective human dignity and the value of life.

To dance in celebration today is offensive first and foremost to the victims of the attacks on September 11th. They are palpably alone in singing the Star Spangled Banner and celebrating the murder of Osama Bin Laden, thoroughly alone, because no one in the world cares or even remembers. If these dancing Americans, however, were to transform their fear and fascination with violence into rage and courage to occupy the same streets in protest, against the ruling elite that has profited from the loss and grief of 9/11 and the wars that followed, and the undemocratic corporate interests running their lives, they might find the arms of other ordinary working people from around the world extended in solidarity.

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/05/in-se...den-and-the-dancing-americans.html#more-42113

 

[StrawDog]

Sarah Hawas has written a piece on dancing Americans at mondoweiss:

Thank you Sarah. :m:

 

[The Esotericist]

I pointed that out earlier.
Government officialdom, by its very nature, requires little or no evidence to prove its point or make a case. Heck, an American can be arrested and held pretty much indefinitely for whatever "security" reason.

Anyone, however, that questions official stories is mocked, becoming the target of very typical ad hominem non-arguments. The bar is constantly raised for those who question.

Right, they pull out all the undignified whiny terms that lower the caliber of the discussion. The usual suspects. "woo woo, conspiracy theory, nutter" what have you. Anything to derail the topic and to attack the person bringing up uncomfortable information rather than the information itself.

You can stand over here with us "unpatriotic" tinfoil hat models. We're wearing the latest....

Oh really? Are the spring fashions out already? How exciting! :cheers:

 

[joepistole]

Quite. The barbaric national ecstasy at this revenge killing is a clear indication of Americas utterly bankrupt moral compass. A steady decline into barbarism is the mark of dying empires from time immemorial.

And of course this utterly childish national high, a celebration of murderous revenge, crusader style, sheds no tears for the countless innocent civilians sacrificed in US revenge assaults on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and now Libya. Each an every human being quite as innocent as the victims of 9/11 :m:

Pardon me but I think it is your moral compass that is a bit skewed. First, the killing of Bin Ladin is not a revenge killing any more that the execution of a common murder is a revenge killing.

 

[adoucette]

Your conspiracy claims are so pathetic SAM.
A proof of life video or photograph would be so easy to make.
But none will ever be forthcoming.

So SAM when there are no more audio tapes of Bin Laden ever released again are you finally going to accept that he is actually dead?

 

[joepistole]

My guess is that the CIA is now reviewing any of Bin Ladin's yet to be released tapes. I would wage an additional guess that US forces are also in the process or preparing to raid others in Bin Ladin's network based on the evidence collected when the US raided Bin Ladin's sex nest. I could not help but notice he had king size bed.

I would further wager that Bin Ladin's lieutenants are running for deep cover in some remote cave at this point in time as they have no interest in earning their 72 virgins.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Here is a conspiracy theory for you: what if he is dead, but people like SAM are so hung up on him being alive that impostors start taking advantage of it and start making osama audio and video tapes, and thus osama becomes Elvis!

 

[Repo Man]

Here is a conspiracy theory for you: what if he is dead, but people like SAM are so hung up on him being alive that impostors start taking advantage of it and start making osama audio and video tapes, and thus osama becomes Elvis!

Surely you're not one of the sheeple who believes that Elvis is dead?

 

[joepistole]

People are funny critters. They will believe what they want to believe regardless of fact and reason. And those who hold extreme positions appear to be more easily influenced by rumor and belief rather than facts.

 

[S.A.M.]

Agreed.
What kind of democracy can be exported from a government that condones pretty much the same behavior as those whom it maligns?
Or supports the very same people that it later demonizes?

Libya is an ongoing example. I've asked elsewhere about the moral character of some of the revolutionaries involved.



Obviously you are referring mostly to foreigners, but there's always the question of domestic deaths as well.



That's a real concern with all the Constitutional circumvention (irrelevancies?) that have been touted as so necessary in this age of the war on terror. Should a President be able to order the assassination of someone, in particular a U.S. citizen, without solid evidence or a trial?

The National Security Powers have increasingly removed the protections of law and the requisite probable cause and evidence from prosecuting and executing. It's become increasingly impersonal and remote.



Lucysnow asked early on in the thread about where they got all the flags, and was there a flag merchant (Made in China, the most patriotic type of flag to wave, dontcha know?!?).
What struck me about the White House gathering, was that just a few weeks ago, people were protesting the attack on Libya, and of course, many were arrested.
But an even huger crowd gathers, engaging in probably drunken revelry, and everything is just peachy.

Note: any protest against government, no matter how peaceful, is bound to result in arrests.

Indeed in a way it is a fitting tribute to Osama that on the day he "dies" at American hands, Americans all over the US celebrate their loss of freedoms. Now it is the American way to endorse extra judicial killings and lack of due process.

Three cheers for terrorism! The New American Way[sup]TM[/sup]

What better shrine could Osama have hoped for?

Meanwhile, thinking on the timing of this raid, I wondered if a dead Osama could be used to justify a dramatic decrease in defense or military spending.

I heard rumours that the US debt will go public in June 2011, but I cannot find a good, accredited source for this rumour.

If this is true, its a valid reason for this whole farce. Does anyone know anything about the FedRes stopping their printing presses in June? Officially the date is August 2

 

[TheVisitor]

A little flashback:..."After a week of debilitating strikes at targets across Afghanistan, the Taliban repeated an offer to hand over Osama bin Laden, only to be rejected by President Bush."

S.A.M. may have hit on something here. It leads to a point I might make;

If the whole "where is Waldo" search for Bin Laden was really a scam...
That means we didn't really want to find him for the last ten years because he gave us a "justified" reason for being in the Middle East...

This event marks something. The game is about to change. Whether or not it was the real Waldo is now a moot point.
The public will need a new "bad guy". "Where is Osama" is over. That much should be clear.
Common sense tells us you never retire one thing unless you have something better already...

What comes next in my opinion can't be good.
People need to put their flags away and stop patting themselves on the back.
We're only being "primed" by the media for the next disaster.

 

[adoucette]

Osama's death has certainly brought out the tin foil hat brigade in force.

They are rather amusing, I must say.

 

[CptBork]

Quite. The barbaric national ecstasy at this revenge killing is a clear indication of Americas utterly bankrupt moral compass. A steady decline into barbarism is the mark of dying empires from time immemorial.

And of course this utterly childish national high, a celebration of murderous revenge, crusader style, sheds no tears for the countless innocent civilians sacrificed in US revenge assaults on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and now Libya. Each an every human being quite as innocent as the victims of 9/11 :m:

So Americans shouldn't be thrilled? Seemed plenty of their alleged victims were quite happily cheering when Bin Laden was still alive and on the run. Please elaborate on the barbarism of these celebrations. Was it barbaric to celebrate the end of WW2 as well, perhaps?

 

[TheVisitor]

So Americans shouldn't be thrilled? Was it barbaric to celebrate the end of WW2 as well, perhaps?

If you knew how it really started and why...yes, it would seem barbaric.
And the similarities to 911 are just astounding.

Let's see...the Japanese were provoked into attacking Pearl...
It was intentionally left defenseless, warnings repeatedly ignored...
Fighter planes were ordered parked nose to nose in circles a bomber couldn't miss the night before...
(Fighter planes grounded on 911, same body count of about 3,000, and it had to be an attack on American soil to get the ball rolling)...

To end this charade, we nuked hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.
I would call that beyond barbaric if I had the vocabulary for it.
But you need to see past the propaganda surrounding theses events first to really "get it".

 

[Mickmeister]

You have to give the guy credit, he wreaked us across the coals financially. WWII cost the US ~$3.5 trillion, adjusted for inflation in today's dollar. Iraq has cost ~$1.02 trillion. That is impressive for a terrorist group, with no real army to inflict that much financial damage.

 

[spidergoat]

Osama's death has certainly brought out the tin foil hat brigade in force.

They are rather amusing, I must say.

Indeed, they are going apeshit trying their best to interpret this event in an anti-American way. An enemy attacked us and 8 years later we killed their leader. Is this so hard to understand?

 

[TheVisitor]

You have to give the guy credit, he wreaked us across the coals financially. WWII cost the US ~$3.5 trillion, adjusted for inflation in today's dollar. Iraq has cost ~$1.02 trillion. That is impressive for a terrorist group, with no real army to inflict that much financial damage.

Well, the real point is "he" didn't do anything that wasn't allowed to happen.
It was a staged event to get us into another war. Planes didn't bring down those building. Preset explosives did.
That's why they carted off all the steel. To dispose of the evidence.

The story is the same only the names have been changed.
But it takes "the gullible public", to make it all come together. They couldn't do it without you.
The media provides soundbites of euphoria, like a drunken union rally where they provide the beer.

 

[spidergoat]

You have to give the guy credit, he wreaked us across the coals financially. WWII cost the US ~$3.5 trillion, adjusted for inflation in today's dollar. Iraq has cost ~$1.02 trillion. That is impressive for a terrorist group, with no real army to inflict that much financial damage.

And now we don't have to deal with Saddam, Iraq has a democratic government, we defeated Al Quida in Iraq. Surely war is expensive, but it did not lead to our current financial crisis. Serial killers probably don't spend much money to commit their crimes, but it does take millions of dollars to catch them and put them to trial. This is an unfortunate reality of asymmetrical conflicts.