Osama Bin Laden is Dead

[quadraphonics]

What evidence is there for the negative? If nobody saw him, that cannot be proved. Can we see ANY evidence of his presence there?

Those were not the assertions in question. You can go and read the quote if you like: it's still there, in black and white.

I'm just wondering what is the ironclad source you're using to establish all of these existential negatives about who didn't see what, and didn't know what, etc. It must be pretty impressive.

Good point. So all we have is a photo allegedly of blood soaked tiles, allegedly of a haveli in Abottabad

Please provide evidence that said image is an actual photograph, and not simply some digital rendering.

After that, please prove to me that the country of Pakistan actually exists.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

This body that they shoved over the side of an air craft carrier in undue haste.
I hope they've tied a transmitter to it so they can get it back.
They might need it.

Maybe one of the Seals collected a digit or two off of his left hand or something. Just keeping up the tradition

 

[S.A.M.]

How do you know there was ever a Bin Laden? Maybe we just made him up. We like to make up enemies and then kill them, it's good for our self-esteem.

I think its because he is known to exist before the Americans made him so very important

 

[quadraphonics]

Did you expect the Americans to bring in UN observers to check the bodies armpits for tattoos? His dead body is of little concern. You can choose to not believe he's dead or choose to believe he never existed or choose to believe he's been happily buried for years. It really doesn't matter, because your 'he's been dead' angle also fails to provide physical evidence ie: body, gravesite, independent observers, DNA report etc.

True enough, but the real reason it doesn't matter - and that nobody bothered to pursue the sorts of ironclad independent proof that might convince such skeptics - is that the opinions of SAM and similar skeptics don't matter to begin with. She can believe anything she wants, and it isn't going to affect anything important to America in the least. The premise that Obama - or ourselves here - need to answer to her (casuist, stilted) standards of evidence is simply a ploy to garner the spotlight in a thread guaranteed to exhibit high levels of drama.

 

[quadraphonics]

I think its because he is known to exist before the Americans made him so very important

Please provide evidence that Osama Bin Laden ever existed, and then specify when this claimed elevation to importance occurred, as well as how the USA managed such (along with relevant supporting evidence for all statements involved).

 

[spidergoat]

He's dead to the satisfaction of the president, and that's good enough for me.

 

[CptBork]

I think its because he is known to exist before the Americans made him so very important

I thought he was just an ordinary nobody until the CIA genetically engineered him to lead the Mujaheddin? He was important before 9/11, but not until America invented/cloned him for the Soviet-Afghan war.

 

[S.A.M.]

Please provide evidence that Osama Bin Laden ever existed, and then specify when this claimed elevation to importance occurred, as well as how the USA managed such (along with relevant supporting evidence for all statements involved).

I believe we've already decided that is irrelevant.

real reason it doesn't matter - and that nobody bothered to pursue the sorts of ironclad independent proof that might convince such skeptics - is that the opinions of SAM and similar skeptics don't matter to begin with.

That is correct. Only the opinions of the American people are relevant and they do not mind dancing on empty graves.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

What evidence is there for the negative? If nobody saw him, that cannot be proved. Can we see ANY evidence of his presence there?

Well of course someone saw him, how else could they have killed him. Its not that nobody saw him, its that nobody you are willing to believe saw him. Why were you so willing to accept the news article out of Pakistan claiming he was dead? Did they show evidence? If someone say they saw the event what made you believe it?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

That is correct. Only the opinions of the American people are relevant and they do not mind dancing on empty graves.

Well according to you they probably were not dancing on an empty grave. According to you Osama has been buried 8x's and so potentially anywhere we or anyone else stomps and grinds could be above his remains. But you are right Sam, technically they should have hired a cruise liner, sail the seas dancing just for good measure.

 

[S.A.M.]

He's dead to the satisfaction of the president, and that's good enough for me.

Faith is a very powerful motivation.

 

[quadraphonics]

I believe we've already decided that is irrelevant.

It would seem not - there would be nothing to talk about here if that were so.

That is correct. Only the opinions of the American people are relevant and they do not mind dancing on empty graves.

False dichotomy, obviously: there are plenty of agendad "skeptics" in the American population, and plenty of reasonable people of other nationalities. So, again, you are engaged in a cheap attempt to manufacture a national shit-flinging contest: nasty trolling. Not the sort of thing one can engage in, if one wants to credibly advance complaints about "civility."

 

[quadraphonics]

He's dead to the satisfaction of the president, and that's good enough for me.

More to the point, the President is willing to stake his reputation on such a claim. Such being a far greater display of confidence than any assertions here, from anonymous people with somewhere between little and nothing to lose for being shown to be incorrect.

 

[quadraphonics]

Faith is a very powerful motivation.

Indeed, look at all the inane hoops you're willing to jump through in order to avoid dealing with inconvenient information.

 

[S.A.M.]

More to the point, the President is willing to stake his reputation on such a claim. Such being a far greater display of confidence than any assertions here, from anonymous people with somewhere between little and nothing to lose for being shown to be incorrect.

Indeed

 

[CptBork]

Faith is a very powerful motivation.

If faith is such a bad thing to have, then why do you constantly troll atheists whenever the subject turns to religion?

 

[quadraphonics]

Indeed

Exactly - Bush suffered considerable political consequences for that bit of over-reach, for the duration of his Presidency. He had to come out and publicly admit that it was a mistake. And it wasn't even a simple factual assertion that could be unequivocably shown to be false - the USA did accomplish a mission by that point, at least. It was simply an inappropriate slogan.

 

[spidergoat]

Indeed

Actually did it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVdU2eVYSg&feature=player_embedded

 

[S.A.M.]

If faith is such a bad thing to have, then why do you constantly troll atheists whenever the subject turns to religion?

I'm not criticising his faith, however I see faith as a prelude to logic not a substitute for it. Whether it is Bush propaganda or Obama propaganda, there is little to choose between one man representing a farce or another. In either case, you have all the celebrations but nothing to show for them.

All you need is a bunch of people chanting - my government would never lie to me.

And the picture is complete

 

[quadraphonics]

I'm not criticising his faith, however I see faith as a prelude to logic not a substitute for it.

That sentence is exactly a criticism of his faith.

Meanwhile, you evince considerable difficulty in managing the transition from your "prelude" to the realm of logic. The "logic" seems to ends up acting as a secular expression of faith, without any force of its own.