My unanswered questions about Christ

[geeser]

YES. But i dont think he was a Christian at all or that had zero factor. Hitler wanted a master race, this is well documented. Christianity is inclusive and believes GOD created all, of course it is not 100% perfect..

well we can see where Hitler got his stance on ethnic cleaning.

Most of the Old Testament contains passages of genocidal intent and ethnic cleansing ordered by God such as 1 SAMUEL 15.19

Also, hitler killed not only Jews in concentration camps so how does the typical conspiracy theory fit in???

yes he killed off the old and infirm, cripples, blind, deaf, dumb. however the only real race he had the hot's for was

The persecutions and expulsions of Jews in Germany, Austria and other Nazi-controlled areas prior to the initiation of mass genocide in which 6 million Jews were killed

these were the killers of jesus, read "Mein Kempf", he was following Gods plan. Even his name was changed to Hitler from "Schicklgruber" his mothers maiden name, he adopted his step-fathers "Hiedler" it was changed to Hitler and kept because it had the meaning "Shepherd"

Either way i am not blaming one element here, his views were skewed. He probably had many influences that he distorted.

agreed, he had many influences, but whether he distorted them is unfounded.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Actually being raised in a faith often means little as adults, look at you and M*W. Both raised with faith and both now despise it. You know these people were master manipulators? They brought manipulation to a whole new level, usually they can say and do anything with no remorse.

At t his point in history we should learn to be open and honest, there is and has been far too much deception.

*************
M*W: John, you are right about us not knowing who you really are. The same goes for the rest of us. The Internet is a wonderful venue for being whomever/whatever one wants to be. You don't know me either. If you had been reading my several years worth of posts, you would know that I was not raised in any religion. I chose to convert to catholicism as a young adult, and I chose atheism as a more mature one. All my life I was intrigued by religion and what made people believe. That hasn't changed.

Why is it that you think we are master manipulators? There is no one on this forum who is trying to manipulate you to become an atheist. I've said a gazillion times, that just can't be done. Atheism is something that a mature mind chooses to embrace. From what we do know about you, whoever you are, is that you are shallow and immature and certainly not ready to leave the comfort of your own delusion.

 

[John99]

Geeser, our views on Hitler's motivations are different but i think we can agree on that they really were not rational. The decisions he made if looked at purely from a strategic view were outrageous. Be that as it may, you should read up more on it with an unbiased perspective and you will see what i have alluded to.

M*W, you misunderstood me. I said that Hitler and Stalin were master manipulators.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

M*W, you misunderstood me. I said that Hitler and Stalin were master manipulators.

*************
M*W: Yes, they were the masters of manipulation. Hitler was a christian, and as I understand it, Stalin didn't have the concept of a god. However, I don't believe he considered himself to be an atheist. Communism was his god.

 

[BlueMoose]

Geeser, our views on Hitler's motivations are different but i think we can agree on that they really were not rational. The decisions he made if looked at purely from a strategic view were outrageous. Be that as it may, you should read up more on it with an unbiased perspective and you will see what i have alluded to.

M*W, you misunderstood me. I said that Hitler and Stalin were master manipulators.

Stalin By Edvard Radzinsky
The First In-Depth Biography Based on Explosive New Documents from Russia's Secret Archives
-Must read book if studying Stalin.
-Stalin was just a little vicious terrorist raised by Lenin to be hes back yard dog, but huh, he took the hole system eventually.

-Hitler perverted race plans origins from Thule Society.
"he planning of the Second World War started when Adolf Hitler joined a secret society called the Thule Society in 1919. It was in this group that he found the perverted beliefs that were later to lead him in his control of the German government.

In the Thule Society: "... the sun played a prime role... as a sacred symbol of the Aryans, in contrast to... the moon, revered by the Semitic peoples. The Fuhrer saw in the Jewish people, with their black hair and swarthy complexions, the dark side of the human species, whilst the blond and blue-eyed Aryans constituted the light side of humanity. ... Hitler undertook to extirpate from the material world its impure elements."1

Adolf Hitler PictureIn addition to sun (or light) worship, the Thule Society also practiced Satan worship: "The inner core within the Thule Society were all Satanists who practiced Black Magic."2

The Society was not a working-man's group as it included amongst its members: "judges, police-chiefs, barristers, lawyers, university professors and lecturers, aristocratic families, leading industrialists, surgeons, physicians, scientists, as well as a host of rich and influential bourgeois.... "3

The membership of the Thule Society also became the foundation of the Nazi Party: "... the Committee and the forty original members of the New German Workers' Party were all drawn from the most powerful occult society in Germany—the Thule Society."
http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-2/adolf-hitler.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society

-Notice that The Swastika is one with The Sun pressing The Moon down.
-And here we go again, astronomy~astrology~religion~politics...

 

[Saquist]

Why complicate matters. Jesus was illiterate. Carpenters' sons got no education in those days. I think that's a more satisfactory answer. Never overlook the obvious.

Perhaps that's more a testiment to your own limits than that of Jesus.
He was described in attendence at the temple listening to the reading of the scrolls as a child and as an adult reading from the scrolls. And he's is known for quoting scripture aswell.

I realize it's your undying aim to alienate reason by means of a thinly veiled insults but I sense there is no retort you would not give. This is indeed why you've declined conversation in the past. Should it not be like wise for the present and future?

You refuse correction so why do you seek it? Begin Act One of the Angry Atheist I presume.

 

[Myles]

Perhaps that's more a testiment to your own limits than that of Jesus.
He was described in attendence at the temple listening to the reading of the scrolls as a child and as an adult reading from the scrolls. And he's is known for quoting scripture aswell.

I realize it's your undying aim to alienate reason by means of a thinly veiled insults but I sense there is no retort you would not give. This is indeed why you've declined conversation in the past. Should it not be like wise for the present and future?

You refuse correction so why do you seek it? Begin Act One of the Angry Atheist I presume.

Are you serious ? So he listened and he read but never got around to writing. Wouldn't it have been better had he done so, then all the arguments about what he meant could have been avoided. Information passed on verbally gets corrupted or don;t you know that.

Your ad hom is a nice try but it falls down when you talk of my alienating reason. If reason and religion were bedfellows, we would not be having this exchange. So, again, what reason can you give for Jesus not having written his message and saved everyone a lot of trouble ?

"you refuse correction" = you refuse to accept my mumbo jumbo

 

[joepistole]

Below is a link to a site listing Christian heresies. Please note, how many first century hersies there are. It seems to me like a lot of heresy so soon after the death and resurection of Christ. Could that not have been prevented with some documentation and organization at the time of Christ? One would think God would want his message to get out clearly so it could be well understood...no heresies.


http://www.religion-cults.com/heresies/first.htm

 

[John99]

*************
M*W: Yes, they were the masters of manipulation. Hitler was a christian, and as I understand it, Stalin didn't have the concept of a god. However, I don't believe he considered himself to be an atheist. Communism was his god.

Hitler was not influenced by Christianity but by something else. Survival of the fittest, where did he get this from?

Saying that Communism was Stalins god is not based on fact. He did not believe in god, this is no secret.

 

[great]

-The "other" Holy Trinity

Brahma


Vishnu


Shiva

I've never seen this photos before. They are interesting.

 

[John99]

Blue Moose just finds similarities in things that were around thousands of years ago. He takes snippets of information and tries to solve a puzzle, i can do the same and come up with hundreds of theories - it is fantasy, not fact.

 

[BlueMoose]

(1.)Blue Moose just finds similarities in things that were around thousands of years ago.
(2.) He takes snippets of information and tries to solve a puzzle, i can do the same and come up with hundreds of theories -
(3.)it is fantasy, not fact.

1. Yes, and more I study more I find similarities, why ?
Maybe because the one and only common thing that ancients were able to
observe in different continents was the sky. ? .
2. Is there any other way to study something.!?!. How can I know everything at once, but oh, wait....if The God will tell me I guess ?
Why dont you do the same ? I find very it very meaningful.
3. Yes, this is the tricky part...
...observe the unknowing (!) ~ define what is it (!) ~ metaphor ~ write it ~ heroic story ~ readers = as many ("thruth") interpretations as readers...
-It a fantasy based on REAL events in the sky. And oh the irony again,
in a way I believe that those tales are true but thats because I know what they are based on, and those who dont...are actually the ones fantasizing
-And the funniest part is that there is nothing weird to believe that The Sun and all the other stuff in the space is what created us, that is if you know science.
-I guess this planet would be a pretty boring place without The Sun...

 

[John99]

Nice hobby you have there.

 

[Why?]

There were people who could read and write in those days, surprise, surprise. So Jesus could have ensured that his message was not corrupted if he had written it and passed it on the his disciples. Illiterate people could have heard the word if others read it to them.

Without realizing it you have put your finger on something important. Why do Christians base their beliefs on the Bible, parts of which were contemporary with Jesus if, as you say, the masses were illiterate. Could not the select few have got it wrong ? What prevented Jesus writing/ dictating his message ? How do you know that what was passed on verbally was accurate ? Have you heard of Chinese whispers ?

Lastly, what prevented Jesus speaking AND writing; they are not mutually exclusive activities. What does your common sense tell you ?

Of course, Jesus could have written things down. But, that is not the way of leaders. Common sense tells me that leaders, especially biblical style prophets didn't write things down themselves. Jesus' audience was mostly illiterate. You can't communicate with the illiterate by writings. Makes perfect sense to me why Jesus didn't write anything down.

 

[Why?]

So wait... you regard "common sense" as being jesus could not write because people weren't reading, but someone else could write what he was saying even though people weren't reading?

Common sense indeed :bugeye:

Jesus could write. The Gospels and Letters were meant to be read in front of the illiterate church goers. Obviously, without Jesus the priest would have to rely on writings to read Jesus' words to the illiterate church goers.

 

[Why?]

Why?
-Any similarity between sun worship and worship of the historical Jesus is pure coincidence. If Jesus meant that God was the sun, he certainly would have said so. Jesus never claimed God was the sun.

-And your source is...The Bible. ? .
-Just analyze the passages in The Bible about God, they apply to sun near 100%.
-If Jesus did exist he was just a teacher, not a man-god.
-Its in my book too, or do I really believe that some blacksmith could provide machine like Sampo ?

" In Finnish mythology, the Sampo was a magical artifact constructed by Ilmarinen that brought good fortune to its holder; nobody knows exactly what it was supposed to be. When the Sampo was stolen, it is said that Ilmarinen's homeland fell upon hard times and sent an expedition to retrieve it, but in the ensuing battle it was smashed and lost at sea.

The Sampo has been interpreted in many ways: a world pillar or world tree, a compass or astrolabe, a chest containing a treasure, a Byzantine coin die, a decorated Vendel period shield, a Christian relic, etc. In the Kalevala, compiler Lönnrot interpreted it to be a quern or mill of some sort that made flour, salt, and gold out of thin air. The world pillar theory, originally developed by historian of religions Uno Harva and linguistic E. N. Setälä in the early 20th century, is the most widely accepted one."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampo

-The Sun does that very nicely, it created us too, with other King Stars like constellation of Virgo ~ Mary
-World Pillar is the North Star, maybe the sun is better, well, closer to us anyway.

Jesus said their are many rooms in my Father's house. Now, the Sun doesn't have any rooms, does it?

 

[Why?]

*************
M*W: I realize you're probably not catholic, but if you study catholicism, you'll find the many symbols of sun worship. Besides, what makes you so sure the RCC wasn't based on sun worship?

I am Catholic. Although the RCC may have appealed to pagans through the pagan's sun worship, there is absolutely no evidence in the Gospels or the Letters that Jesus worshipped the sun. First of all, Jesus was a Jew. Jews certainly did not worship the sun. After all, how could the sun possibly fit in the Ark of the Covenant and remain the in the Holy of Holies? If Jesus did worship the sun, he would have been thrown out of the Temple - and he never was until shortly before his death. Second, Jesus never refers to the sun as a God. Jesus said there were many rooms in his Father's house. Obviously, the sun doesn't have any rooms.

 

[joepistole]

Why, I think you maybe be forgetting the mystery religions of the time and that Jesus himself stated that somethings were kept secret.

 

[SnakeLord]

Jesus could write

You'd only know that if he had have written anything, which he didn't.. Oh well.

Obviously, without Jesus the priest would have to rely on writings to read Jesus' words to the illiterate church goers.

Eh? jesus didn't write anything because if he did the priest would have to rely on writing to read jesus words to illiterate church goers?

You make no sense.

 

[Why?]

Why, I think you maybe be forgetting the mystery religions of the time and that Jesus himself stated that somethings were kept secret.

O.K. I'll bite. What secret? The messianic secret? Some secrecy nonsense from the Gnostic gospels? And if it is a secret, than how do you know it involved sun worship?