Muslim pilot prayed instead of taking emergency action to land plane... 16 dead

[mikenostic]

So the passengers would have been better off if they land on ground instead of water? If they had landed a couple minutes earlier? He did a textbook case of crash landing, without fuel. I don't know anything about planes, but I fail to see what he could have done without fuel.

Sam, stop acting so fucking stupid.

1. You as a pilot, are responsible for knowing at all times how much fuel you have. No excuses.
2. You as a pilot are responsible for the safe operation of the plane to the best of your ability. You are required to fly those planes BY THE BOOK.
Stopping to pray when you should be implementing emergency procedures is not flying the plane by the book.

of course not. But he went straight to his pilot training, not religious training. His first thought was saving lives, not saving his soul.

^^^This right here.
Sam if you can't understand that, you are definitely retarded and there is really no hope for you.

 

[Oli]

There is a distinction between a controlled ditching and simply crashing (not even crash-landing) into the water; the latter is capable of killing everyone upon impact and disintegrating the plane.

Ho ho ho.

Even a controlled ditching is CAPABLE of killing everyone on impact and disintegrating the plane.

 

[Arsalan]

^^^This right here.
Sam if you can't understand that, you are definitely retarded and there is really no hope for you.

If you cant understand the difference between panic and real prayer done while fully aware of every situation, then Im thinking it isnt SAM that is the retarded one here

 

[Bells]

Like what? They were out of fuel, and he did land in the water. Its second guessing to think he could have glided on to a tarmac

We will never know, will we? He was too busy panicking and then praying before doing what he was meant to do.. ie, following procedure.

How? Its all second guessing.

I don't know about you, but if I am on a plane and it runs out of fuel, I would expect the pilots to start following procedure immediately. That is what they are trained to do and what is expected of them. That is their responsibility. Would you be happy to know that a supposedly trained pilot went into a panic and started praying before he started following procedure if you were on that plane or one of your relatives was one of the 16 who didn't survive? I can tell you now, I'd be royally pissed.

I'd assume the pilot wanted to live as much as the others did. How long did he pray? one second? 15 minutes?

The article does not say. I am assuming the prosecutors have the black box recordings and know the exact time he actually started following procedure and how long the panic and praying lasted for... everything they say and do is recorded so they would know how long it was before he so much as pressed a button and started doing what he was meant to do. Obviously it was more than what is deemed normal or logical for men with their experience, otherwise they wouldn't have been found guilty and sentenced to jail.

Oli made a vital point..

Praying out loud... ooh, even men can talk AND do something else

And that's the thing. It would seem these two pilots didn't just panic, talk, pray and do something else. They panicked, prayed and then did something else (in this instance, follow procedure). It is the "and then" that is the issue here. You listen to what pilots say to each other as they fight to get control of a plane as it's about to crash and you can hear the panic in their voice. The difference with them and these two pilots is that from the get go, they are following procedure and trying to keep that plane up or get it safely on the ground. They don't take time to panic and pray before doing what they are meant and trained to do. Which is what these two pilots did. We will never know what could have happened if they had multi-tasked (prayed and followed procedure at the same time). It could very well be that they could have ditched that plane and everyone survived. Or the 16 people could have still died. If they had followed procedure from the start, they wouldn't be in jail. But they didn't. They panicked, prayed and then after that was done, then they started to follow procedure.

If you cant understand the difference between panic and real prayer done while fully aware of every situation, then Im thinking it isnt SAM that is the retarded one here

If you read the article, it states that they panicked, started praying and then started to follow procedure.

I really don't give a flying monkey what religion they happen to be. What is disconcerting is that the both of them panicked and then started to pray before they did what they were meant to.

It would be akin to going to a hospital with your arm hanging off and blood squirting all over the place from an arterial bleed and seeing the doctor start to panic and then start praying before he attempted to treat you.

 

[Orleander]

Sam, stop acting so fucking stupid.... . you are definitely retarded and there is really no hope for you.

<sigh> there you go again. getting all riled up and emotional.

 

[Arsalan]

From Wiki:

Tuninter Flight 1153 was a Tuninter flight from Bari International Airport in Bari, Italy, to Djerba-Zarzis Airport in Djerba, Tunisia. On 6 August 2005 the ATR-72 on the route, TS-LBB "Habib Bourguiba", ran out of fuel and ditched into the ocean.[1][2]

The Captain was Chafik Al Gharbi (Arabic: شفيق الغربي) and the copilot was Ali Kebaier Lassoued (Arabic: علي كبيّر الأسود)

The fuel gauge for the ATR-42 had been mistakenly installed on the ATR-72; crews in Bari loaded the ATR-72 with an inadequate amount of fuel, relying on the ATR-42 gauge. The crew did not detect the increasing fuel exhaustion due to the ATR-42 gauge. The aircraft ran out of fuel mid-flight and the crew requested an emergency landing in Palermo, Sicily. The ATR did not make it to Palermo and the turboprop ditched into the sea. Of the four crew members, two died. Of the 35 passengers, 14 died.[2] Most of the passengers were Italian, while the crew was Tunisian. Autopsies indicated that many of the dead succumbed to the impact.[3] Autopsies established that four passengers, who received injury during the impact, ultimately drowned.[4]

The aircraft's right engine failed at 23,000 feet (7,000 metres). The aircraft descended to 7,000 feet when the left engine failed. The ATR glided for 16 minutes before crashing 23 nautical miles (43 kilometres) northeast of Palermo International Airport. The aircraft broke into three sections upon impact. The central fuselage and the wings floated after the impact.[5]

Tuninter compensated each family of a victim or survivor with €20,000.[6]

On 7 September 2005 the Italian government banned Tuninter from flying into Italian airspace.[7] Tuninter rebranded itself as Sevenair and had scheduled flights into Italy again as of 2007.

In March 2009, an Italian court sentenced the pilot, Chafik Garbi, to 10 years in jail for manslaughter. Prosecutors alleged that after the plane's engines stopped functioning, Garbi failed to follow emergency procedures. He could have easily reached landing strip #25 of Palermo "Punta Raisi" Airport, or even the standard landing strip #20. Witnesses say he succumbed to panic and began praying out loud, rather than attempting to maneuver the plane to the nearest airport.[8] The last five minutes of the cockpit voice recorder audio have a few scattered seconds of religiously oriented interjections such as "Allah save us!", with the pilot repeatedly telling ATC that the plane is too far out to make it to land, carefully selecting a boat to splash down near, and repeatedly trying to restart the engines.[9][10][11].


References

1. ^ "Plane crash off Sicily kills 13." BBC. Saturday 6 August 2005.
2. ^ a b http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20050806-0
3. ^ "Sicily air crash team check fuel." BBC. Monday 8 August 2005.
4. ^ "Double engine failure forced Tuninter ATR 72 to ditch." Flight International. 16 August 2005. Retrieved on 3 February 2009.
5. ^ "Tuninter ATR 72 had been fitted with wrong fuel gauge." Flight International. 13 September 2005. Retrieved on 10 January 2009.
6. ^ "Regional Roundups." Middle East Times. 10 August 2005. Retrieved on 3 February 2009.
7. ^ "Human Error Is Common Thread In Spate of Air Crashes." Air Safety Week. 19 September 2005. 1.
8. ^ "Pilot jailed for Sicily air crash," BBC News Online, 24 March 2009.
9. ^ Source: La Repubblica, 23.03.2009, "Palermo, per la tragedia dell'Atr condannati pilota e tecnici di Tuninter"
10. ^ Source: La Repubblica, 23.03.2009, "Atr72, le cause della tragedia" - part 1
11. ^ - part 2

Flights black box: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVPv_mrU95w

Sam, can you count how many times he "prayed" and what he "prayed". Ridiculous sentence.

 

[Bells]

After a bit of digging, this just gets even uglier..

During an investigation of the events that led to the crash-landing, Italian authorities recovered the cockpit voice-recorder from the wreckage of the ATR-72 turboprop plane and heard that Captain Gharby had turned the controls over to his co-pilot during the emergency and uttered a prayer, instead of following standard procedures that might have allowed him to land the plane at an airport.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/court-in-italy-convicts-pilot-who-prayed-before-crash/

A pilot who began praying instead of enacting emergency measures before a Tunisian charter flight plummeted into the sea and killed 16 people off Sicily in 2005 was convicted of manslaughter, news reports said Tuesday.

The plane's black box showed that the Tunisian pilot, Chefik Gharbi, lost control of the situation, ceded command of the plane to his co-pilot and began praying, the ANSA news agency reported.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032402164.html

 

[S.A.M.]

After a bit of digging, this just gets even uglier..

Yeah it looks like he panicked and ceded control to his co-pilot.

From Wiki:



Flights black box: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVPv_mrU95w

Sam, can you count how many times he "prayed" and what he "prayed". Ridiculous sentence.

The praying is irrelevant, he panicked and ceded control.

Sam, stop acting so fucking stupid.

1. You as a pilot, are responsible for knowing at all times how much fuel you have. No excuses.

Not if the technicians have installed the wrong gauge

2. You as a pilot are responsible for the safe operation of the plane to the best of your ability. You are required to fly those planes BY THE BOOK.
Stopping to pray when you should be implementing emergency procedures is not flying the plane by the book.

Is landing a plane in water by the book?

 

[Arsalan]

The praying is irrelevant, he panicked and ceded control.

I know but have you heard what they termed "praying"? All he said was "Bismillah" and a couple of "My God". Thats it. and they make it sound like he stopped everything to do a full prayer

 

[Bells]

That's what many just can't seem to grasp. It's not that he prayed. Hell, if you are a believer and you are in that kind of situation, you would be praying. If you are an atheist like me, you'd probably be saying every single swear word under the sun. The issue here is that he failed to do what he was meant to do. He completely failed to follow procedure in every single way imaginable.

Panicking and praying is one thing. Giving up control to pray is another thing altogether.

 

[Bells]

I know but have you heard what they termed "praying"? All he said was "Bismillah" and a couple of "My God". Thats it. and they make it sound like he stopped everything to do a full prayer

Err that's exactly what he did.

The plane's black box showed that the Tunisian pilot, Chefik Gharbi, lost control of the situation, ceded command of the plane to his co-pilot and began praying, the ANSA news agency reported.

 

[DiamondHearts]

This thread is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. I can't believe it is one page 3.

What I want to know is how did this pilot pray? It says he uttered a prayer, can he not also prepare for the emergency landing while doing that? Was his co-pilot incapable of doing an emergency landing?

How much of the blame lies with the co-pilot mislanding, than with the incorrect installation of the gas gauge?

Attempting to blame the pilots religious beliefs for the crash landing is dishonest and portrays a very bigoted view not only of Islam, but Muslims in any occupation. If this were a Christian or Jewish pilot, would religion be blames, probably not. If it is a Muslim, full stop, he killed these people because he's Muslim.

I have never seen anything so dishonest in my life. Actually I have, but the point still stands.

 

[Oli]

Was his co-pilot incapable of doing an emergency landing?

If he was the pilot (aircraft commander) it's his responsibility (unless the co-pilot has a proven record of being better.)

Attempting to blame the pilots religious beliefs for the crash landing is dishonest and portrays a very bigoted view not only of Islam, but Muslims in any occupation.

Agreed.
If I'd been the pilot I'd have sat there screaming "fuck me!" while trying to land the thing - would the headline have read "Sex Maniac Pilot Crashes Aircraft: Kills Passengers"?
I think not.

I have never seen anything so dishonest in my life. Actually I have, but the point still stands.

:roflmao:

 

[Bells]

As I said earlier. It isn't his religion that is the issue here. The issue here is that he failed to do what he was meant to do.. take control of the situation and follow procedure.

Instead, he panicked, gave control to his co-pilot and then said a prayer. He could be of any religion or no religion at all. He was a bad pilot and his handling of the situation could very well have contributed to the deaths of those 16 people on that flight.

Both of them appear to have failed to follow procedure. He even more so when he ceded control of the plane to his co-pilot in his panic and then started praying. My opinion would have been the same if he didn't pray, instead curled in the foetal position in his state of panic. The point is that he should have taken control immediately, instead of panicking and losing it to the point where he ceded control to his co-pilot. He accepted the accolades immediately after the crash, before the black boxes were recovered and it was discovered that he lost it so much that he handed the control of the plane to his co-pilot. He was praised a hero for that ditch. But then the truth got out and everyone realised that he failed to follow procedure, failed to even take control of the plane or the situation, instead giving control to the co-pilot and started praying.

That is why he went to jail. Not because he called out to God. But because he failed to do his duty.. he failed to be responsible and he failed to take control and follow procedure.

 

[Arsalan]

Err that's exactly what he did.

You obviously dont know the difference between a full prayer and what he said. Just listen to the black box link. It is alleged by the prosecutors that he stopped everything to do a full prayer. Thats not the case from what I can hear from the black box recording. And ya, that wasnt the reason, the reason he was jailed was for not following procedures. But the article makesit sound like once again Muslims are incompetent because of their religion and that is something that will draw a reaction from me.

 

[jayleew]

What is standard procedure for a pilot, when all thrust from the engines is gone and all attempts to restart the engines fail?

Would the procedures have saved the rest of the passengers?

Ten years for not following procedure. What if not following the procedure saved half the passengers?

 

[Bells]

You obviously dont know the difference between a full prayer and what he said. Just listen to the black box link. It is alleged by the prosecutors that he stopped everything to do a full prayer. Thats not the case from what I can hear from the black box recording. And ya, that wasnt the reason, the reason he was jailed was for not following procedures. But the article makesit sound like once again Muslims are incompetent because of their religion and that is something that will draw a reaction from me.

Umm ok. What part of "he ceded control to his co-pilot" don't you quite understand?

He did stop doing everything when he handed the control of the plane over to his co-pilot in his panic before he started to follow procedure. The black box recording you have posted starts well after the emergency began. The prosecutors got to hear the whole thing. That youtube recording is from the last 5 minutes of the flight. The reason the pilot was jailed was because of what happened at the start of the emergency, not towards the end of it.

He was incompetent. He could have been of any religion under the sun, he was still incompetent. Do you know why? Because of his initial panic, ceding control of the plane to his co-pilot. He was irresponsible in his actions.

During an investigation of the events that led to the crash-landing, Italian authorities recovered the cockpit voice-recorder from the wreckage of the ATR-72 turboprop plane and heard that Captain Gharby had turned the controls over to his co-pilot during the emergency and uttered a prayer, instead of following standard procedures that might have allowed him to land the plane at an airport.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/court-in-italy-convicts-pilot-who-prayed-before-crash/

 

[mikenostic]

If you cant understand the difference between panic and real prayer done while fully aware of every situation, then Im thinking it isnt SAM that is the retarded one here

She is, and it seems you are too.

What you fail miserably to understand is that pilots go through hundreds of hours of perpetual training. They are trained NOT to panic in situations like this. In fact, most modern airliners have automated systems that will take the plane off and land it better than the pilot can. In those types of airliners (the 777 is a prime example), the only reason the pilots are there is to monitor the systems and take over in case of an emergency.
I don't care how your distorted perception allows you to view this situation, but panicking and praying are not in any S.O.P. of any airline.

Is landing a plane in water by the book?

When you are in an emergency, yes. Because each type of aircraft has it's own 'book' of emergency procedures. And I'll bet my ass that NONE of them instruct the pilot to panic and pray for however long before they implement emergency procedures. So no, he did NOT fly the plane by the book and that's what is landing him in jail.
But what do I know. I was only an Aerospace Admin major in college with just a few flight hours short of a private pilot's license. Yeah, I don't know shit about emergency procedures.

Attempting to blame the pilots religious beliefs for the crash landing is dishonest and portrays a very bigoted view not only of Islam, but Muslims in any occupation. If this were a Christian or Jewish pilot, would religion be blames, probably not. If it is a Muslim, full stop, he killed these people because he's Muslim.

Wake up DH. And please step down from your 'I'm a Muslim, I'm a victim of persecution' high horse. No one cares.
No one is blaming his religious beliefs for this. They are blaming the fact that he (even if momentarily) scrapped the airline SOP to say a prayer rather than implement emergency procedures.
And yes, regardless of what religion he was, if any pilot stops and starts praying immediately after all of the engines in the airliner he is responsible for goes out, then yes, they will be held responsible for too.

Some of you people just have no idea on how strict aviation rules are. You don't just hop into a 200,000 lb airliner, start it up and go. There are excruciatingly detailed SOPs that one has to follow to a tee, or else you will wind up with a disaster. Even little, seemingly trivial crap like 'praying' can cause a major crash.

 

[Roman]

Who cares if the guys prayed or not? The fact that they panicked and killed 16 people rather than not being pussies is reason enough to send them to jail. Negligently killing people is manslaughter.

Those few precious seconds when the plane was going into a terminal dive could have been used to level it off so the impact with whatever surface they hit wouldn't turn the plane into chunks. Instead, they didn't do anything.

 

[S.A.M.]

Actually, the plane glided for 16 minutes.

I'm guessing very few commercial airlines can impact water without breaking up.