I could not find the figures earlier.
More young men in jail than college
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
I could not find the figures earlier.
You know what, Sam? The truly sad/crazy thing about all this is that the parents of these kids aren't smart enough to realize that by helping the kids get through school, not only would it greatly benefit the kids later on, it would also enable them to better take care of their parents when they grow older.
And if the parents are that stupid - or just don't care, whichever - how can we possibly expect their kids to be any better. That's just astounding to me.
Thats what surprises me too. Do the parents have lower expectations? Is it a consequence of poor self image? It would appear the kids don't do so badly, they are just not motivated to carry through.
It would seem that far, far too many of the parents we're talking about have no expectations at all. They're simply waiting for the kids to grow up and move out (or go to jail, in some cases) so that they will be rid of the responsibility.
The number of children held by Children Services agencies and in foster homes keeps growing every year. And some of those actually slip through the cracks and become unaccounted for.
Forty years ago, one median wage job held by one parent working forty hours a week would raise a family in a house of its own.
That left the weekends, the extensive after work hours, and one entire parent, to supervise and encourage the education of any children.
Now, it won't rent a median two bedroom apartment on the standard 30% for housing formula.
Of course more diligent, intelligent, devoted parents can overcome the handicap of working two or three jobs between them to make ends meet. But you are going to lose some, under that kind of stress.
That, and Americans are anti-intellectual - especially working class Americans, which most blacks are. School is just a job ticket, a bureaucratic hurdle that has to be jumped. So the schools are basically certification factories run on the cheap - none of that fuzz-headed knowledge for its own sake, truth, beauty, and fun. That removes most normal human motivation from the educational process. There is no reward, only avoidance of punishment.
And finally: in the US, higher education requires not only diligence and interest, but money. Because the education is a job ticket - an investment -Americans see nothing strange in requiring the student to pay for it as well as do the work of acquiring it. Given the large uncertainties involved in such an investment, and the onerous demands, it is not too surprising that many of the less wealthy turn it down - or, as teenagers, fail to recognise the opportunity hidden behind the expense, work, and risk.
That left the weekends, the extensive after work hours, and one entire parent, to supervise and encourage the education of any children.
Now, it won't rent a median two bedroom apartment on the standard 30% for housing formula.
Of course more diligent, intelligent, devoted parents can overcome the handicap of working two or three jobs between them to make ends meet. But you are going to lose some, under that kind of stress.
That, and Americans are anti-intellectual - especially working class Americans, which most blacks are. School is just a job ticket, a bureaucratic hurdle that has to be jumped. So the schools are basically certification factories run on the cheap - none of that fuzz-headed knowledge for its own sake, truth, beauty, and fun. That removes most normal human motivation from the educational process. There is no reward, only avoidance of punishment.
And finally: in the US, higher education requires not only diligence and interest, but money. Because the education is a job ticket - an investment -Americans see nothing strange in requiring the student to pay for it as well as do the work of acquiring it. Given the large uncertainties involved in such an investment, and the onerous demands, it is not too surprising that many of the less wealthy turn it down - or, as teenagers, fail to recognise the opportunity hidden behind the expense, work, and risk.
Where do you get you info? I think what you're trying to say is wrong ...in fact, it seems to me that it's obviously wrong, because many, many people do just exactly what you're suggesting can't be done.
How 'bout some basic info/statistics on your above claim?
Baron Max
Actually this is an arguement I never considered. It's a good arguement too. What are the effects of living in the inner city, pollutionwise? Not just lower air quality, lower water, food, and overall nutrition quality. What effects to contaminants have on brain development?
No doubt pollution has negative effects. However, when compared to attitude problems in society it probably hardly even rates. More than anything, it's another excuse to avoid dealing with the REAL issue - bad parenting. And the sad thing is that no one seems to have ANY idea how to address it.
You seem to be saying that kids aren't going to college because they fail to see the value of it or lack the resources.
You're wrong on both counts. Pretty much everyone who's qualified goes to college, and then some. As was pointed out earlier, many students must waste time taking remedial classes because they are not qualified for college.
Do these studies also indicate which drugs? It would be very surprising indeed if the ratio of 'hard drug' usage was the same in both populations.
From what I've seen/read/heard (sorry, no references to give) there IS a difference in the drugs of choice. Whites seem to prefer (on average) MJ, coke and estacy while the black community is much more into crack and crystal meth. Don't hold me to that because I'd really like to see some reliable numbers myself.
But on a more important note, what does that have to do with kids not getting an education? That's the primary thrust of this thread - that and the fact that so many go to jail instead.
I am not claiming that the failure to see the benefits of education only kicks in at the time of decision for or against college. Any perceived uncertainty in the value of education for a given person affects everyone at all ages throughout the system, parents and teenagers alike.madanth said:
I work with people whose high school career was influenced, at least partly, by their parents' delivered opinion that college was not a reasonable possibility for them - the father, for example, declaring that if they wanted to pay thousands of dollars to have some professor fill them with BS, they would have to raise the money themselves.
When they graduated, they were not qualified for college. Surprise?
I paid for my own education (actually, I'm still paying off the student loans, and my oldest son starts college next year!).
But anyway, it's easy to get loans to pay your way thru college. I didn't even need loans for undergrad. I paid for that via scholarships and work. Optometry school was too expensive and time consuming (plus I had a wife and kid to support) to pay as I went, but undergrad was no problem.
NewJerseyMan
Registered Member
Does prison correct people?
Incarceration obviously hasn't deterred crime. Violent crime rates continue to soar even as the prison population does as well. The truth is that if you're jailed for 25 years, beaten and raped thousands of times and treated like shit, when you come out you will be more likely to commit crimes than before. Why is this? Because prisoners suffer tremendous psychological damage when in prison due to maltreatment, rape, gang violence, the list goes on and on. Studies even show that incarceration actually INCREASES the chance of reoffense; it has exactly the opposite effect on people that we've been told it does. Yes, there are those that need to be in capitivity and rendered harmless, like murderers, rapists, etc., but we should take care that they are not raped or beaten or abused but given psychological care to actually help them heal. Only this will ensure that they don't reoffend.
Noah
Incarceration obviously hasn't deterred crime. Violent crime rates continue to soar even as the prison population does as well. The truth is that if you're jailed for 25 years, beaten and raped thousands of times and treated like shit, when you come out you will be more likely to commit crimes than before. Why is this? Because prisoners suffer tremendous psychological damage when in prison due to maltreatment, rape, gang violence, the list goes on and on. Studies even show that incarceration actually INCREASES the chance of reoffense; it has exactly the opposite effect on people that we've been told it does. Yes, there are those that need to be in capitivity and rendered harmless, like murderers, rapists, etc., but we should take care that they are not raped or beaten or abused but given psychological care to actually help them heal. Only this will ensure that they don't reoffend.
Noah
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
So what exactly is a "hard drug" anyway? There's a discussion on this topic going on right now in the Chemistry subforum. No consensus has been reached, except that marijuana, the drug whose usage is most persecuted in America, is the least dangerous of all. Except maybe caffeine, which is the most dangerous for me personally.
Drugs affect different people differently. The effect is highly dependent on individual body chemistry and psychology, and also on the culture. Doctors and lawyers used cocaine and heroin 110 years ago when it was legal, and it had no more of an impact on their lives than caffeine addiction has on those same professions today.
Whoever said meth is a problem of the black community hasn't been to California, where fourteen-year-old white girls want to be as emaciated as fashion models.
That was me, Fraggle. And I think you're not knowing more about the trend today is that you haven't visited the major metropolitan areas in the past 3 - 5 years, and I have. Miami, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Atlanta and a few others. Meth also seems to be the drug of choice for many Latinos as well.
Figure 1. Meth Use by Race
http://www.thorainstitute.com/2006/03/will-meth-be-new-crack-for-black.html