Man divorces & sues wife for being ugly, wins

[Balerion]

Obviously I can't know anything for sure. But we can make some reasonable speculations based on what was said in the article. Every time I try to put myself in his position, I just can't see myself getting married to a woman without knowing more about her past.

The problem with that statement, again, is that it assumes it just takes some fortitude by the husband to uncover every secret. But in reality, you have no idea what you don't know about your partner's past. How many times have you heard about some widow or widower finding out some dark secret about their partner only after they've died? Much as Wynn would have you believe that it's just a matter of asking, it's hard to find out things about people when they don't want you to know.

Do you think her family is going to keep up the lie for her? If you can't see any pictures of her growing up, that might be a red flag to check into a bit more.

Easy to say in retrospect, but what makes you think he should have even been suspicious? How do you know he didn't see pictures of her as a kid?

This might not be a Chinese custom but Japanese families do very extensive background searches on their children's future mate and there family tree back a few generations. I'm very sure a $100,000.00 of surgery cost would not have gone unnoticed or any other irregularities in her past. So he was suckered, he could have done more to make sure he was getting what he wanted. That doesn't excuse what she did. I have to wonder what did she think was going to happen when he found out?

I'd love for you to show me where cosmetic surgery shows up on a background check. By all means, show me.

 

[wynn]

Yes she didn't tell him about the surgery and that was wrong.

And how much is this conclusion that it was wrong of her not to tell him, influenced by the later fact that this woman was sued over this?

If she wouldn't be sued, would you still find it wrong?

But he didn't really take the time to get to know her. He married her for her looks and that was all he cared about. That should have been a red flag to her. Anyway nothing was said about him not being able to have a one child with a new wife. Which might be a good reason for divorce but because they both have to share some of the blame for their situation, the $120,000.00 award seems a bit unreasonable IMO.

If I were the judge, I would dissolve the marriage, with no penalties for either party, the two splitting the trial costs evenly, and issue them a judicial warning that in the future, they should be more careful about entering relationships and be more upfront about what they want and don't want in a partner.

 

[wynn]

Easy to say in retrospect, but what makes you think he should have even been suspicious?

It's not about suspicion, nor about "interrogation." It's about simply knowing oneself, knowing what one wants and doesn't want, what one considers to be dealbreakers, and what one considers to be causes for termination of relationship. And then making sure that there is clarity on these points with the other person before taking the relationship to more serious stages.

 

[wynn]

To those who think the woman lied:


How do you know she lied?

The article referenced in the OP says nothing to suggest that.



If a woman has had an abortion in the past, or was raped, and she doesn't tell her prospective partner about that on her own, without him first requesting information on such issues, is she lying?

Some people will say she is; some will say she isn't.

 

[wynn]

Maybe I was incorrect in saying it was not sarcasm. The term correct but Fraggle's reaction to it seemed odd to me. He seemed to think that sarcasm is automatically innocent and sweet. It is usually not. It is usually meant to insult. Your sarcasm was aimed at us and therefore the insult was to us. That is what I was disagreeing with. My wording was not good.

Perhaps its cute when Sheldon misses it because he seems unaware that he is being insulted most of the time. And you do adore when you insults fly over head. But they don't fly over mine. I see you for the cold calculating troll that you are. Or maybe it isn't that he doesn't get the insult, he just dismisses it because he believes that those who use sarcasm as a primary form insult are un-inventive and stupid, after all his insults are almost always way more cutting than his fellow nerds are.

But I do appreciate you clarifying your position and your opinion of those of us who don't share it. Well done.

Now we know you interrogate your dates. Probably leading to them walking out on you and perhaps is the source of your obnoxious bitterness and sexist attitude towards men.

Why on earth would anyone think they need to ask if someone has had plastic surgery. I guess I better ask Neverfly if he was ever a woman? I never thought to ask that, silly me considering how often I meet transsexuals that I can't tell. There are so many types of secrets that can be deal breakers out there and until you encounter one you may not even think of it to know it would be a deal breaker. So to put the responsibility on the partner to ask about every possible oddity that could exist in one's past, why shouldn't people just be forthcoming and honest as Balerion suggested. I think it is the more common accepted protocol in the USA anyway. It seems the other way around would appear to be more like severe paranoia.

Ah, yes, because it's so healthy for a relationship when the parties involved are inquisitive rather than forthcoming. Accusatory rather than revealing. I'm sorry, but I can't imagine how anyone who has ever actually been in a relationship could say something so profoundly stupid.

That's a pretty cheap conclusion, I think. "Sympathizing" in this case is a relative term, for one, in that nobody's saying he was right to sue her. What "sympathizing" with the husband seems to mean is a recognition that the person having cosmetic surgery should tell their partner about it, rather than hide it and hope it never comes up. If it were anyone else, I might be curious to discover what deep psychological issues accompany the defense of such a dishonest person, but since it's you I know this is really just about defending the woman. It goes no deeper than that with you.

Yes, how dare he take offense with being lied to! The real victim is that poor lying woman, who was so neglected by her husband that she never had a chance to tell him about her hundred thousand dollars worth of plastic surgery. [/sarcam]

I think the the two of you simply don't like the fact that you agree with the rather obvious point I am making, and now you're taking your dislike out on me.

:shrug:

 

[Balerion]

It's not about suspicion, nor about "interrogation." It's about simply knowing oneself, knowing what one wants and doesn't want, what one considers to be dealbreakers, and what one considers to be causes for termination of relationship. And then making sure that there is clarity on these points with the other person before taking the relationship to more serious stages.

Again, this is reflective of someone who has never really been in a relationship, because if you had, you'd know that it's just not that simple. For one, you don't know whether or not he actually asked her and she simply lied about it, or if he never had a reason to suspect it and she never told him. In either case, she was being dishonest, because something that big ("Hey, this isn't what I really look like,") is a big enough deal that it should come up at some point.

Just as a "for example," I once dated a girl while I was still close to two other girls I had slept with several years before. Since we were going to be one big happy crew, I felt it was important to tell her about it before they became close and it could have a bigger potentially negative effect. In the end, she was perfectly okay with it, but I think I made the right decision in sharing that information when I did. Keep in mind, however, that after I had first introduced them, she did ask me if there had been any history, and I lied, thinking that I was sparing her feelings. So ultimately she only found out because I chose to tell her.

To those who think the woman lied:


How do you know she lied?

The article referenced in the OP says nothing to suggest that.

That's silly. Of course the article suggests that. They're in court because she never told him about her cosmetic surgery.

If a woman has had an abortion in the past, or was raped, and she doesn't tell her prospective partner about that on her own, without him first requesting information on such issues, is she lying?

Some people will say she is; some will say she isn't.

Oh, so you're one of those people for whom hiding the truth is different from lying. Well, that says a lot about your character, and it's not a distinction I would ever draw.

 

[Balerion]

I think the the two of you simply don't like the fact that you agree with the rather obvious point I am making, and now you're taking your dislike out on me.

:shrug:

I don't agree with your very simplistic, unrealistic point of "You gotta know you." For one, it's a non-sequitur, because knowing oneself has nothing to do with finding out some secret from your wife's past. It sounds like something you'd have read in, I dunno, Twilight, or some other fluffy tween drama. In the real world, people have secrets, and it's up to them to share.

 

[joepistole]

Well it's pretty obvious the man viewed his wife and his child more as possessions rather than individuals. I'd say the wife and child are better without him.

 

[Bells]

I don't see this baby as ugly..

An any parent should understand there child is a part of them. And support the child the best they can. This Chinese guy is a person I am glad I don't know. And I am betting he ain't the looker either. To many.

But this happened in China. What more needs to really be said? That beauty is more than skin deep. And he didn't love her. But this baby will grow up with a face that more than a mother will love. That's for sure.

Indeed..

This whole story and the current debate in this thread is disgustingly pathetic.

The premise that any person has to disclose to their potential spouse that they may or may not have been unattractive at some point in their life is, to say the least, ridiculous.

Personally, looking at that baby, I don't see anything wrong or so repulsive with her that would lead her father of all people to sue the mother because she was apparently ugly in the past and gave birth to that little girl.

What seems to stand out more in this story is the sex of the child. It is quite possible that this fuckknuckle of a father wanted a son and found an out by going after the little girl's looks instead.

---

All these comments about how she should have told him about the surgery before she married him. Okay, to those individuals. Say you meet someone and they tell you they had a nose job or the like before they met you. Are you telling me you would refuse to date them or marry them because they may have been unattractive before said surgery? Is the first thing that comes to your mind is 'dear lord what will the children look like?!'..?

I would imagine you would not think that.

When we get to the point where men are suing women for being too ugly or for giving birth to a supposedly ugly baby, then we can safely say that that society has failed dismally. And individuals defending this arsewipe of a father and husband should really take a cold long and hard look in the mirror and think for a moment, how would you feel if you become the parent of a child and the other parent sues you because they blame you because they think that their child is too ugly?.. Think about it for a moment. Think of the implications of what this entails. In effect, this woman was sued for her looks and the guy won. Why? Because the father did not think his daughter was pretty enough as a baby..

This woman didn't have a type of surgery that would affect their marriage or ability to have children - which one could say would be something that could be open to lawsuits - such as a person withholding that they cannot have children, for example. What she apparently (if people in this thread are to be believed) withheld her looks before the surgery to her husband. Now, has he never seen photos of her before the surgery? Baby photos? And if he hadn't, is it still something that one should be able to sue about and actually win? Really? Looks are so important that one can sue if one marries someone they think is ugly and who had surgery? This woman had plastic surgery and she was sued because the court deemed her ugly before the surgery.

What's going to be next?

I mean if we are suing because we think a child is born ugly and so, it is the mother's fault (because apparently the father had no role to play in the formation of that baby) and most importantly, her looks, what is going to be next?

 

[KilljoyKlown]

The problem with that statement, again, is that it assumes it just takes some fortitude by the husband to uncover every secret. But in reality, you have no idea what you don't know about your partner's past. How many times have you heard about some widow or widower finding out some dark secret about their partner only after they've died? Much as Wynn would have you believe that it's just a matter of asking, it's hard to find out things about people when they don't want you to know.

Hard yes, but not impossible.

Easy to say in retrospect, but what makes you think he should have even been suspicious? How do you know he didn't see pictures of her as a kid?

Well I could be wrong, but even the best surgery is bound to leave some scars. Whenever I take a relationship to a sexual one, I really love to inspect my female partners body closely and scars cause questions.

I'd love for you to show me where cosmetic surgery shows up on a background check. By all means, show me.

Without knowing more about life in China, it would be hard to say what a background check might turn up. But following the money seems like SOP. $100,000.00 dollars for surgery should show up and need explaining.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

And how much is this conclusion that it was wrong of her not to tell him, influenced by the later fact that this woman was sued over this?

If she wouldn't be sued, would you still find it wrong?

If you don't get caught, it's a moot point. When he first questioned the way the kid looked. She should have stuck to her lie and insisted on a DNA test and then let the looks of the kid continue to be a mystery. But she blew it instead.

If I were the judge, I would dissolve the marriage, with no penalties for either party, the two splitting the trial costs evenly, and issue them a judicial warning that in the future, they should be more careful about entering relationships and be more upfront about what they want and don't want in a partner.

I agree.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

To those who think the woman lied:


How do you know she lied?

The article referenced in the OP says nothing to suggest that.

If a woman has had an abortion in the past, or was raped, and she doesn't tell her prospective partner about that on her own, without him first requesting information on such issues, is she lying?

Some people will say she is; some will say she isn't.

I think most people consider any deception such as not telling the whole truth, to be a lie. However, take the case where either the man or woman has cheated just once. They felt very bad about it and don't plan to ever do it again and don't want to end their marriage. In this case not telling is the best course of action, because telling will most likely cause a divorce.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

Bells

The premise that any person has to disclose to their potential spouse that they may or may not have been unattractive at some point in their life is, to say the least, ridiculous.

Personally, looking at that baby, I don't see anything wrong or so repulsive with her that would lead her father of all people to sue the mother because she was apparently ugly in the past and gave birth to that little girl.

What seems to stand out more in this story is the sex of the child. It is quite possible that this fuckknuckle of a father wanted a son and found an out by going after the little girl's looks instead.

I think you are correct, but he went to court with a case his lawyers told him he had the best chance of winning. For the record if a woman spent a $100,000.00 to look better than she did. I would appreciate the hell out of it.

 

[Balerion]

All these comments about how she should have told him about the surgery before she married him. Okay, to those individuals. Say you meet someone and they tell you they had a nose job or the like before they met you. Are you telling me you would refuse to date them or marry them because they may have been unattractive before said surgery? Is the first thing that comes to your mind is 'dear lord what will the children look like?!'..?

I would imagine you would not think that.

This is, of course, misrepresenting the facts in order to allow yourself room to be morally outraged. We're not simply talking about a nosejob, we're talking about a hundred thousand dollars worth of cosmetic surgery. As to your question of whether or not we'd date them because they were unattractive, are we supposed to pretend that physical attraction plays no role in it? Did you marry a hunchback, perchance? If so, then congrats on your consistency, but otherwise, you're not kidding anyone with this nonsense.

The man didn't think the kid looked like either of them, so he accused her of cheating. Then he found out that she had a ton of cosmetic surgery to make her look different. He feels lied to, and rightfully so. Was a divorce and lawsuit how I would have handled it? No, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

When we get to the point where men are suing women for being too ugly or for giving birth to a supposedly ugly baby, then we can safely say that that society has failed dismally. And individuals defending this arsewipe of a father and husband should really take a cold long and hard look in the mirror and think for a moment, how would you feel if you become the parent of a child and the other parent sues you because they blame you because they think that their child is too ugly?.. Think about it for a moment. Think of the implications of what this entails. In effect, this woman was sued for her looks and the guy won. Why? Because the father did not think his daughter was pretty enough as a baby..

No, the man won because the woman lied. I know this throws a huge wrench in your feigned moral outrage machien, and so you choose to ignore it, but I'm not going to let you forget it. Imagine what kind of sick narcissism it takes to have your face chopped up to the tune of a hundred grand. Imagine the level of dishonesty required to then hide it from your husband. And you have the gall to act like the husband is to blame, rather than the lying wife? I mean, the nerve!

This woman didn't have a type of surgery that would affect their marriage or ability to have children - which one could say would be something that could be open to lawsuits - such as a person withholding that they cannot have children, for example. What she apparently (if people in this thread are to be believed) withheld her looks before the surgery to her husband. Now, has he never seen photos of her before the surgery? Baby photos? And if he hadn't, is it still something that one should be able to sue about and actually win? Really? Looks are so important that one can sue if one marries someone they think is ugly and who had surgery? This woman had plastic surgery and she was sued because the court deemed her ugly before the surgery.

No, she was sued because she lied. Again, it's that one little detail that you can't quite bring yourself to accept, but without it you're not telling the whole story. It's easy enough to frame it as "he sued her because she's ugly," but the real reason is because she lied to him, and got him to marry her under false pretenses. Maybe you think it should be okay to trick someone into marrying you, but the court didn't, and neither do I.

 

[Balerion]

Hard yes, but not impossible.

It absolutely can be impossible if the parties involved have no desire to tell you. There are some things that can't be dug up on the internet or through a private investigator. Also, one has to be suspicious of something before even taking those extreme steps, and he clearly had no reason to be prior to the birth of the child.

Well I could be wrong, but even the best surgery is bound to leave some scars. Whenever I take a relationship to a sexual one, I really love to inspect my female partners body closely and scars cause questions.

Now you're making assumptions about their sexual habits, as well as assuming she couldn't simply lie about any scars that did appear. (I tend to think obvious scars would defeat the purpose of cosmetic surgery, so I doubt there was much for him to find)

Without knowing more about life in China, it would be hard to say what a background check might turn up.

Yet you have no problem saying that he should have been able to see the surgery on a background check?

But following the money seems like SOP. $100,000.00 dollars for surgery should show up and need explaining.

Following money form where? This surgery occurred before they met. It's not like she used their joint bank account.

 

[wynn]

I think most people consider any deception such as not telling the whole truth, to be a lie.

Whether something is a deception or not will depend on the intention of the person in question (in this case the woman).

We do not know whether the woman had any intention to deceive the man. The article says no such thing. Perhaps she thought it wouldn't matter to him whether she had cosmetic surgery or not.

She can only be accused of lying if he actually asked her about the surgery, and she denied it; or if she otherwise offered false information about herself (for example, if the two were watching a tv show about cosmetic surgery, and she would comment "I would never have something like this done to me").


Other accusations that she is lying are merely projections, based on what particular people believe should be disclosed or not.

I don't think cosmetic surgery is something that must be disclosed, so I wouldn't consider it a lie if someone wouldn't tell me they had cosmetic surgery.

 

[wynn]

And what's with those 100,000.00 USD worth of cosmetic surgery?

That number alone doesn't say much. In an upscale US clinic, you wouldn't get that much for that money. In a semi-legal establishment in Singapore, they'd build at least a dozen Frankensteins.

 

[wynn]

On the bright side, this girl has much better chances of becoming the first female president of China, finding the cure for cancer, receiving a Noble Prize and becoming Miss World - without her biological father in her life.

Picture of the ugly baby that caused the divorce and lawsuit.

Oh, and "ugly" babies don't cause divorces and lawsuits.
It's people who desire to divorce and sue.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

On the bright side, this girl has much better chances of becoming the first female president of China, finding the cure for cancer, receiving a Noble Prize and becoming Miss World - without her biological father in her life.

Oh, and "ugly" babies don't cause divorces and lawsuits.
It's people who desire to divorce and sue.

Ugly was a term used in the article and the lawsuit. I don't think divorce is very common in China and probably needs what would be considered a very good reason. When you want a reason you pay a very good lawyer to find you one that will accomplish what you want.

 

[Balerion]

Whether something is a deception or not will depend on the intention of the person in question (in this case the woman).

We do not know whether the woman had any intention to deceive the man. The article says no such thing. Perhaps she thought it wouldn't matter to him whether she had cosmetic surgery or not.

The problem with this statement is that it doesn't take into account the fact that she lost the case--meaning that the judge agreed with the man--and that she got $100 grand worth of cosmetic surgery. If it's just a nose job or whatever, I'm sure it can be overlooked. But even in the US, the national average for any given procedure is under $10 grand, with many coming it less than half of that. Even assuming that she spent $10 grand on each procedure, you're talking about at least ten surgeries. Ten! If her husband didn't know, it's because she didn't want him to. That's the only explanation that makes any sense.