Man divorces & sues wife for being ugly, wins

[KilljoyKlown]

Out of intrest I wonder how people (either sex) in western countries would react if they found out there partner had a sex change for example. I doubt a lot of people would be as civilised as to sue

I met a sex change before. And yes it was noticeable that she used to be a man. She had a very interesting life style. She had a regular rout of stops where she stayed and she mostly traveled with a real woman for the obvious reasons. It was a lot of fun when a friend of mine who was very drunk jumped her bones and never suspected or noticed anything wasn't right. Anyway the next morning I had to ask him how a Teflon pussy felt. He went into denial at least for awhile. I still laugh every time I think about it.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

1. She should have told the man about the surgery before the marriage.

Cosmetic surgery is much more common in the USA. How many Americans bother to tell their fiance/fiancee that they had it?

2. She should have thought about his reaction to the way the baby would look.

Frankly I don't understand what qualifies that baby as "ugly." They only look "cute" to their parents, who have in instinct to feel that way or the species would become extinct.

In any case, there's no guarantee that a bad-looking person will have a bad-looking child, or vice versa. The genes of both parents combine and you have no idea what you're going to get.

Does anyone know if they have child support in China?

China has so much socialism that it makes the People's Republic of Europe look like a libertarian paradise. I don't think they let babies starve to death like they did under Mao's astoundingly incompetent leadership.

Women should be pretty.

Beauty is, indeed, in the eye of the beholder. Sure there are a few people with such classic bone structure, etc., that they appear "beautiful" to almost everyone. But the average person has a few features which look average to most of us, look downright ugly to a few, and at the other extreme there are a few who think they're utterly gorgeous.

I thought my high school girlfriend was a doll. After we broke up people came up to me quietly and admitted that almost everyone else in the school thought she was butt-ugly.

All hail male chauvinism!

Chauvinisme is a French word. Maybe it's time to replace it with one from Chinese.

Question: what is ugly?

My point exactly. Sure, deformed features, extreme asymmetry, wounds, many birth defects, etc., look "ugly" to most of us. But as I said, for the vast majority of the population, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe some lady has a few features that most men don't appreciate, but there are a few guys out there who will swoon over them. And the same is true in the other direction, although it's an (unproven) cliche that women don't care about looks quite as much as men do.

Do wrinkles make us ugly?

Wrinkles are a sign of age so an old, wrinkled person may not appear attractive to a very young person. But at my age we all have wrinkles so we don't notice them any more.

Considering the male to female ratio in China, even the ugliest women should have it made.

I understand that prostitution is a very lucrative career over there, for this very reason: men can't get dates. Of course it's illegal so the girls have to pay off the cops. Still, from my contact with Chinese culture (I had a Chinese girlfriend for a couple of years and with my pidgin Mandarin I got to know her family), I would very strongly guess that some parents with daughters might decide that they've got a gold mine in the bassinet and make the most of it.

So what was she really doing (Gold Digging) or something? She wasn't honest with the man she married. He should have had the opportunity to say no to the marriage before it happened and she had an ugly kid.

Life just isn't the same in China, especially now under their unique hybrid Confucian/Marxist culture. You can't apply Western standards when you try to understand how things work over there.

What do you think Angelina Jolie looked like as an infant?

How about Jennifer Lopez? She was a fabulously beautiful Latina. Now she's got all that anglicizing surgery and she looks positively ordinary.

What a load of crap, wynn.

Good grief! My wife keeps sending my name in to the Guinness Book of Records as The Man Who Was Born Without The Enzyme To Digest Sarcasm. I never get it when other people do it, and when I try to do it nobody gets it.

But even I could see that Wynn was being sarcastic. Give the poor lady a break! Get a prescription for sarcasm pills! They don't work on me but they might help you.

 

[seagypsy]

Good grief! My wife keeps sending my name in to the Guinness Book of Records as The Man Who Was Born Without The Enzyme To Digest Sarcasm. I never get it when other people do it, and when I try to do it nobody gets it.

But even I could see that Wynn was being sarcastic. Give the poor lady a break! Get a prescription for sarcasm pills! They don't work on me but they might help you.

That would make sense, Fraggle, if wynn was simply being sarcastic. But given wynn's history and consistent manner of trolling, I think it is safe to say we all interpreted wynn's remarks the same. Not as sarcasm as you suggest but as extreme strawman remarks suggesting that we all see the woman far worse a human being than what anyone, including the article, has suggested.

You correct Balerion on what you see as a mistake in his reaction to wynn, but everyone in the thread has responded to wynn the same way. If wynn did not intend to make straw man remarks then (she?) should not have continued along the same line of commenting,rather s/he should have clarified his/her position. Wynn has a consistent history of trolling and we responded to it as such. Wynn has brought this reaction on herself.

To single out Balerion for criticism to his reaction to wynn is unfair, if he is due correction then we all are. But I think the numbers stand against you in that the most common interpretation of wynn's remarks is the more accurate one.

 

[Balerion]

Good grief! My wife keeps sending my name in to the Guinness Book of Records as The Man Who Was Born Without The Enzyme To Digest Sarcasm. I never get it when other people do it, and when I try to do it nobody gets it.

But even I could see that Wynn was being sarcastic. Give the poor lady a break! Get a prescription for sarcasm pills! They don't work on me but they might help you.

Oh look, here's another load of crap. This isn't the first time she has lost her head when she perceives that a man has gotten one over on a woman.

 

[Balerion]

To single out Balerion for criticism to his reaction to wynn is unfair, if he is due correction then we all are. But I think the numbers stand against you in that the most common interpretation of wynn's remarks is the more accurate one.

I'm used to it. I have a bullseye on my back because I don't let them get away with their bullying garbage.

 

[seagypsy]

I'm used to it. I have a bullseye on my back because I don't let them get away with their bullying garbage.

I tend to be seen as an anti-feminist so I don't buy that "men are evil" bullshit. Feminism these days has evolved into female chauvinism not a movement for equality. The original feminists, our grandmothers, would never have supported male bashing. Some did, but the majority, as I have been told by my mother and grandmother, did not support male bashing. They only wanted equal pay for equal work and so on. Now our society is so screwed up on political correctness that they are allowing reverse sexism and racism to run rampant in fear of being politically incorrect. So men are not allowed to stand up for their basic right to be treated as a human being and with respect or they will be called a sexist. So I feel as a woman, it is my duty to stand up against my fellow women and put a sock i their yapper when they feel that a man being treated as a human somehow means that women are not human.

Women who behave in such a way are an embarrassment to our gender.

 

[Balerion]

I tend to be seen as an anti-feminist so I don't buy that "men are evil" bullshit. Feminism these days has evolved into female chauvinism not a movement for equality. The original feminists, our grandmothers, would never have supported male bashing. Some did, but the majority, as I have been told by my mother and grandmother, did not support male bashing. They only wanted equal pay for equal work and so on. Now our society is so screwed up on political correctness that they are allowing reverse sexism and racism to run rampant in fear of being politically incorrect. So men are not allowed to stand up for their basic right to be treated as a human being and with respect or they will be called a sexist. So I feel as a woman, it is my duty to stand up against my fellow women and put a sock i their yapper when they feel that a man being treated as a human somehow means that women are not human.

Women who behave in such a way are an embarrassment to our gender.

I agree with what you say, with the exception of "reverse sexism." I understand what you meant by that, but in principle I disagree with the idea that bigotry flows inherently from male to female, or from ethnic majority to ethnic minorities. A woman hating a man isn't "reverse" sexism any more than a woman violating a man is "reverse" rape. It's just sexism.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

That would make sense, Fraggle, if wynn was simply being sarcastic. But given wynn's history and consistent manner of trolling, I think it is safe to say we all interpreted wynn's remarks the same. Not as sarcasm as you suggest but as extreme strawman remarks suggesting that we all see the woman far worse a human being than what anyone, including the article, has suggested.

You correct Balerion on what you see as a mistake in his reaction to wynn, but everyone in the thread has responded to wynn the same way. If wynn did not intend to make straw man remarks then (she?) should not have continued along the same line of commenting,rather s/he should have clarified his/her position. Wynn has a consistent history of trolling and we responded to it as such. Wynn has brought this reaction on herself.

To single out Balerion for criticism to his reaction to wynn is unfair, if he is due correction then we all are. But I think the numbers stand against you in that the most common interpretation of wynn's remarks is the more accurate one.

When wynn is being wynn I don't see any reason to be surprised and she is not above using sarcasm to get a response she can work with. Although I don't much like wynn's approach in this forum. I have to agree with Fraggle and say she was being sarcastic.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

That would make sense, Fraggle, if wynn was simply being sarcastic. But given wynn's history and consistent manner of trolling, I think it is safe to say we all interpreted wynn's remarks the same. Not as sarcasm as you suggest but as extreme strawman remarks suggesting that we all see the woman far worse a human being than what anyone, including the article, has suggested. You correct Balerion on what you see as a mistake in his reaction to wynn, but everyone in the thread has responded to wynn the same way. If wynn did not intend to make straw man remarks then (she?) should not have continued along the same line of commenting,rather s/he should have clarified his/her position. Wynn has a consistent history of trolling and we responded to it as such. Wynn has brought this reaction on herself. To single out Balerion for criticism to his reaction to wynn is unfair, if he is due correction then we all are. But I think the numbers stand against you in that the most common interpretation of wynn's remarks is the more accurate one.

I'm hardly Wynn's champion. In fact she has more than once singled me out for being unforgivably hostile and uniquely unkind in my criticism. Since I am sarcasm-challenged I'll defer to your collective wisdom.

A friend and I were discussing a couple we know who have now separated but at the time were simply dysfunctional and abusive. They were notorious for getting drunk to the point of stupidity within two hours of arriving at any gathering. My friend hadn't seen them for a few weeks and mused, "I wonder if they've joined AA yet."

I had seen them quite recently and replied, "I don't think AA members are supposed to get falling-down-drunk seven nights a week."

She wrote back, "Oh no Fraggle! I've known people who were in AA. They're not supposed to drink AT ALL!"

Then in the next paragraph she said, "Oh wait! I get it! You were being sarcastic, right?"

Someone who's more sarcasm-challenged than me? I love this lady!

 

[wynn]

I think the world would be satisfied if people who over react with insane overly emotional ridiculous conclusions would step out of the gene pool before tainting it.

Dear lord. Have you no sarcasm radar?

When Sheldon misses a case of sarcasm (although not that he ever actually does), that is cute. When a Sciforums poster misses it, that is not cute.



But then again the point I've been making is so obvious that it is probably easy to miss: If people intend to be serious about a relationship, it is their obligation to inquire about iffy issues that the other person has or may have, and not simply wait for the other person to tell.
Didn't those two Chinese have a thorough Q&A before getting engaged?!

Sympathizing with the husband seems more like a transference: people who themselves are not very thorough in informing themselves about whom they get involved with will tend to defend those who also are not very thorough in informing themselves about whom they get involved with.

And as for the Chinese husband: I kind of doubt that he really thinks the baby is ugly. He is possibly angry with himself for getting seriously involved with someone whom he has not thoroughly informed himself about, but he used the opportunity to blame the woman, instead of taking responsibility for his own recklessness and its consequences (or for the change of his values as the marriage progressed).

 

[Balerion]

But then again the point I've been making is so obvious that it is probably easy to miss: If people intend to be serious about a relationship, it is their obligation to inquire about iffy issues that the other person has or may have, and not simply wait for the other person to tell.

Ah, yes, because it's so healthy for a relationship when the parties involved are inquisitive rather than forthcoming. Accusatory rather than revealing. I'm sorry, but I can't imagine how anyone who has ever actually been in a relationship could say something so profoundly stupid.

Sympathizing with the husband seems more like a transference: people who themselves are not very thorough in informing themselves about whom they get involved with will tend to defend those who also are not very thorough in informing themselves about whom they get involved with.

That's a pretty cheap conclusion, I think. "Sympathizing" in this case is a relative term, for one, in that nobody's saying he was right to sue her. What "sympathizing" with the husband seems to mean is a recognition that the person having cosmetic surgery should tell their partner about it, rather than hide it and hope it never comes up. If it were anyone else, I might be curious to discover what deep psychological issues accompany the defense of such a dishonest person, but since it's you I know this is really just about defending the woman. It goes no deeper than that with you.

And as for the Chinese husband: I kind of doubt that he really thinks the baby is ugly. He is possibly angry with himself for getting seriously involved with someone whom he has not thoroughly informed himself about, but he used the opportunity to blame the woman, instead of taking responsibility for his own recklessness and its consequences (or for the change of his values as the marriage progressed).

Yes, how dare he take offense with being lied to! The real victim is that poor lying woman, who was so neglected by her husband that she never had a chance to tell him about her hundred thousand dollars worth of plastic surgery. [/sarcam]

 

[KilljoyKlown]

It was the court action that prompted my posting this topic. Does anyone think a U.S. court would have awarded the husband a $120,000.00 in this case? There's a lot about the relationship I don't agree with. But I think if a man has reason to believe a kid is not his, they have a very reasonable priced DNA test that will prove parentage with 100% accuracy within a couple of weeks.

 

[eram]

i remember reading something like this in a trashy magazine where readers submit their own saucy stories.

she could just blame it on ancestral barbaric genes.

 

[Neverfly]

It was the court action that prompted my posting this topic. Does anyone think a U.S. court would have awarded the husband a $120,000.00 in this case? There's a lot about the relationship I don't agree with. But I think if a man has reason to believe a kid is not his, they have a very reasonable priced DNA test that will prove parentage with 100% accuracy within a couple of weeks.

I guess the load of cash was to help him buy a pretty new wife.

 

[Asguard]

It was the court action that prompted my posting this topic. Does anyone think a U.S. court would have awarded the husband a $120,000.00 in this case? There's a lot about the relationship I don't agree with. But I think if a man has reason to believe a kid is not his, they have a very reasonable priced DNA test that will prove parentage with 100% accuracy within a couple of weeks.

Once again, if she lied in the US sure he could just divorce her and get a new wife or just sleep around but in the US you can have as many children as you want, there is no limit. In china that's it, that's his only chance to have a grandchild and he may well feel she has destroyed that chance. There simply is no way to compare this to the west because we have no restrictive laws like that.

Oh and BTW, why the assumption that if something wouldn't be replicated in a US court that its unethical? There are plenty of unethical laws in the US too you know

 

[KilljoyKlown]

Once again, if she lied in the US sure he could just divorce her and get a new wife or just sleep around but in the US you can have as many children as you want, there is no limit. In china that's it, that's his only chance to have a grandchild and he may well feel she has destroyed that chance. There simply is no way to compare this to the west because we have no restrictive laws like that.

Oh and BTW, why the assumption that if something wouldn't be replicated in a US court that its unethical? There are plenty of unethical laws in the US too you know

Yes she didn't tell him about the surgery and that was wrong. But he didn't really take the time to get to know her. He married her for her looks and that was all he cared about. That should have been a red flag to her. Anyway nothing was said about him not being able to have a one child with a new wife. Which might be a good reason for divorce but because they both have to share some of the blame for their situation, the $120,000.00 award seems a bit unreasonable IMO.

 

[Balerion]

But he didn't really take the time to get to know her. He married her for her looks and that was all he cared about.

That's an awfully large assumption, seemingly based on Wynn's baseless assumption that the husband didn't do his part in interrogating his love before marrying her (because, ya know, that's what all couples do...). How do you know he didn't get to know her? How do you know he married her for her looks? Why doesn't it occur to you that she didn't just lie to him?

 

[R1D2]

It was the court action that prompted my posting this topic. Does anyone think a U.S. court would have awarded the husband a $120,000.00 in this case? There's a lot about the relationship I don't agree with. But I think if a man has reason to believe a kid is not his, they have a very reasonable priced DNA test that will prove parentage with 100% accuracy within a couple of weeks.

The judge may not IMO rule in a parents favor the amount you mention. I would not think so anyway. But in a round about way. A man will most likely pay at least that in child support and care for his child if they separated over here in U.S.A.

 

[seagypsy]

Dear lord. Have you no sarcasm radar?

When Sheldon misses a case of sarcasm (although not that he ever actually does), that is cute. When a Sciforums poster misses it, that is not cute.



But then again the point I've been making is so obvious that it is probably easy to miss: If people intend to be serious about a relationship, it is their obligation to inquire about iffy issues that the other person has or may have, and not simply wait for the other person to tell.
Didn't those two Chinese have a thorough Q&A before getting engaged?!

Sympathizing with the husband seems more like a transference: people who themselves are not very thorough in informing themselves about whom they get involved with will tend to defend those who also are not very thorough in informing themselves about whom they get involved with.

And as for the Chinese husband: I kind of doubt that he really thinks the baby is ugly. He is possibly angry with himself for getting seriously involved with someone whom he has not thoroughly informed himself about, but he used the opportunity to blame the woman, instead of taking responsibility for his own recklessness and its consequences (or for the change of his values as the marriage progressed).

Maybe I was incorrect in saying it was not sarcasm. The term correct but Fraggle's reaction to it seemed odd to me. He seemed to think that sarcasm is automatically innocent and sweet. It is usually not. It is usually meant to insult. Your sarcasm was aimed at us and therefore the insult was to us. That is what I was disagreeing with. My wording was not good.

Perhaps its cute when Sheldon misses it because he seems unaware that he is being insulted most of the time. And you do adore when you insults fly over head. But they don't fly over mine. I see you for the cold calculating troll that you are. Or maybe it isn't that he doesn't get the insult, he just dismisses it because he believes that those who use sarcasm as a primary form insult are un-inventive and stupid, after all his insults are almost always way more cutting than his fellow nerds are.

But I do appreciate you clarifying your position and your opinion of those of us who don't share it. Well done.

Now we know you interrogate your dates. Probably leading to them walking out on you and perhaps is the source of your obnoxious bitterness and sexist attitude towards men.

Why on earth would anyone think they need to ask if someone has had plastic surgery. I guess I better ask Neverfly if he was ever a woman? I never thought to ask that, silly me considering how often I meet transsexuals that I can't tell. There are so many types of secrets that can be deal breakers out there and until you encounter one you may not even think of it to know it would be a deal breaker. So to put the responsibility on the partner to ask about every possible oddity that could exist in one's past, why shouldn't people just be forthcoming and honest as Balerion suggested. I think it is the more common accepted protocol in the USA anyway. It seems the other way around would appear to be more like severe paranoia.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

That's an awfully large assumption, seemingly based on Wynn's baseless assumption that the husband didn't do his part in interrogating his love before marrying her (because, ya know, that's what all couples do...). How do you know he didn't get to know her? How do you know he married her for her looks? Why doesn't it occur to you that she didn't just lie to him?

Obviously I can't know anything for sure. But we can make some reasonable speculations based on what was said in the article. Every time I try to put myself in his position, I just can't see myself getting married to a woman without knowing more about her past. Do you think her family is going to keep up the lie for her? If you can't see any pictures of her growing up, that might be a red flag to check into a bit more. This might not be a Chinese custom but Japanese families do very extensive background searches on their children's future mate and there family tree back a few generations. I'm very sure a $100,000.00 of surgery cost would not have gone unnoticed or any other irregularities in her past. So he was suckered, he could have done more to make sure he was getting what he wanted. That doesn't excuse what she did. I have to wonder what did she think was going to happen when he found out?