Lucysnow said:
Indeed, lack of respect to others and their cultures is so stupid.
Malaysia imposes dress code for non-muslims, THE FRENCH WAY
- Thread starter Proud_Muslim
- Start date
Indeed, lack of respect to others and their cultures is so stupid.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Quote:there are other cultures than theris and that NOT everything good for you is good for everyone else.
On this I do agree with you Proud Muslim, there is an arrogance and patronizing attitude in the West towards most things nonwestern. Its really annoying because there is this assumption that we have the answers to other peoples cultural, social, political, religious and territorial problems and its nonsense. I truly truly believe that every culture has the ability to transform itself but how, when and why that happens will not be based on Western standards. Much of the time western intervention creates problems and does not solve them and if we are ever involved in anything it is solely for our own benefit anyway, perhaps it is the right of might but we certainly cannot expect no backlash or resistance.
We treat the rest of the world like their children or something and then wonder why we are resented, all it does is make these cultures more reactionary. Its the Ugly American thing in action. I am not muslim, I do not live in the East, I am a western women and enjoy the benefits of a western life. The life in the West isnt perfect and there is a constant struggle to solve problems right here at home never mind abroad. There are inequities in every society but it is up to the individuals of that society to solve those problems. Thats why I brought up the phoolan devi story, she decided she was not going to be a victim any longer and she did not have even a fraction of the liberties allowed a poor woman here in the States. Americans have to realize that even if many countries want what we have (wealth/power) they don't always want what we want (democracy/capitalism/consumerism/feminism).
On this I do agree with you Proud Muslim, there is an arrogance and patronizing attitude in the West towards most things nonwestern. Its really annoying because there is this assumption that we have the answers to other peoples cultural, social, political, religious and territorial problems and its nonsense. I truly truly believe that every culture has the ability to transform itself but how, when and why that happens will not be based on Western standards. Much of the time western intervention creates problems and does not solve them and if we are ever involved in anything it is solely for our own benefit anyway, perhaps it is the right of might but we certainly cannot expect no backlash or resistance.
We treat the rest of the world like their children or something and then wonder why we are resented, all it does is make these cultures more reactionary. Its the Ugly American thing in action. I am not muslim, I do not live in the East, I am a western women and enjoy the benefits of a western life. The life in the West isnt perfect and there is a constant struggle to solve problems right here at home never mind abroad. There are inequities in every society but it is up to the individuals of that society to solve those problems. Thats why I brought up the phoolan devi story, she decided she was not going to be a victim any longer and she did not have even a fraction of the liberties allowed a poor woman here in the States. Americans have to realize that even if many countries want what we have (wealth/power) they don't always want what we want (democracy/capitalism/consumerism/feminism).
Lucysnow said:
First of all in muslim countries we dont have this culture of boyfriends and girlfriends, we have MARRIAGE as the only legal way to organize the relationship between men and women, so in that regard, western men and women get FREE SEX under the disguise of 'boyfriend-girlfriend' relationship while that is not available in the muslim world.
Also, you have this ONE NIGHT STAND in which men and womne get FREE SEX without any commitment, also we dont have such things in the Muslim world.
Regarding prostitution, you pay for it in both the west and the muslim world.
Bells
Staff member
Errr PM, it was you who brought Islam into it when you said that there were less reported rapes in Islamic countries compared to western countries and then attributed your argument by saying that it was because of the way women in the West dressed provocatively. You were the one who started the whole argument in that women aren't innocent when they are raped because they somehow provoked the men by dressing in a manner that you deem to be provocative. I have been to Islamic countries and I was dressed conservatively out of respect for their culture and religious beliefs. I don't hate Islam, on the contrary I have many family members and friends who have either converted to Islam or are muslim by birth. I should have thought you'd have realised that by now, especially after the long and ardious debate you started in another thread in reaction to the new French laws. However, any opposition to your view, and you automatically see it as a hatred against Islam, which is unfortunate for you.
All I have been saying in this thread is that the way a woman dresses should not result in the man being blameless when he rapes her. Women in the West are used to the freedoms to dress as they please. You were so offended by the new French laws deeming that women could not wear the Hijab in public buildings, saying that Muslim women should be allowed to wear it if they so choose. However, you have taken a completely different view in regards to other women in other cultures. Why should women in the West cover up because men can't control themselves? Why don't the men have better control. PM your whole argument has been on the basis that men rape women who dress provocatively because women are showing the men something they can look at yet can't have. That same argument could be used for thieves who break into a house or store and steal any valuables there.. on the basis of your argument, these thieves could then say 'well why can't I have it? It was there and I wanted it so why not?' and they would be free from blame. Would you blame a jewellry store for displaying their wares in the store windows and they are then robbed.. would you tell the managers of this store that they shouldn't have provoked the thieves by displaying the jewels in window? Your argument is unfounded because women don't always dress provocatively when they are raped. For example, in winter women rug up. They are usually completely covered usually from head to toe. How is it that women are also raped in winter? How is it that they are dressed provocatively when they are completely covered by thick clothing where you can't even make out their figure or shape? Children aren't seen to be dressed provocatively when they are raped. Neither are men, boys or the elderly. You have failed to prove how such rapes occur in your argument against provocatively dressed women.
All I have been saying in this thread is that the way a woman dresses should not result in the man being blameless when he rapes her. Women in the West are used to the freedoms to dress as they please. You were so offended by the new French laws deeming that women could not wear the Hijab in public buildings, saying that Muslim women should be allowed to wear it if they so choose. However, you have taken a completely different view in regards to other women in other cultures. Why should women in the West cover up because men can't control themselves? Why don't the men have better control. PM your whole argument has been on the basis that men rape women who dress provocatively because women are showing the men something they can look at yet can't have. That same argument could be used for thieves who break into a house or store and steal any valuables there.. on the basis of your argument, these thieves could then say 'well why can't I have it? It was there and I wanted it so why not?' and they would be free from blame. Would you blame a jewellry store for displaying their wares in the store windows and they are then robbed.. would you tell the managers of this store that they shouldn't have provoked the thieves by displaying the jewels in window? Your argument is unfounded because women don't always dress provocatively when they are raped. For example, in winter women rug up. They are usually completely covered usually from head to toe. How is it that women are also raped in winter? How is it that they are dressed provocatively when they are completely covered by thick clothing where you can't even make out their figure or shape? Children aren't seen to be dressed provocatively when they are raped. Neither are men, boys or the elderly. You have failed to prove how such rapes occur in your argument against provocatively dressed women.
Lucysnow said:
Thank you for this amazing frankness from your side, this western arrogance and patronizing attitude can be seen here as well, in this forum.
EXACTLY, every culture has something good in them, even the africans in the jungle have something good to offer for humanity. we should not classify cultures according to western standards.
Indeed, killing thousands of people and stealing their wealth cant go unanswered, many Muslim countries have been colonized for so many long years ( Algeria for 130 years ) and this colonization turned our countries into just a market for the western goods and principles and made our countries just a farm to produce the raw materials for the western industries.
France for example colonized my own country, Syria, for 26 years , they tried to FORCE the French language on us, they tried to make our women dress like the French girls, they banned my father from speaking ARABIC.....this created 4 Syrian revolutions which drove the French out in 1946 after turning Syria into ruins.
I am really amazed at this deep understanding of others cultures and their reaction to your actions.....bravo.
I could not agree with you more...well said.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
It is not only Muslim countries that have a traditional or conservative view of sex, marriage and the role of women in society etc. Like I had mentioned a few posts ago in Cambodia it is the same, a womans virginity is prized and often still the parents choose the husband though this is beginning to change slightly. Women in
Cambodia can now say no to a match, take the time to receive higher education and decide she prefers one male and not another and they call this being 'modern'. But still her virginity is guarded and she heeds her family's advice. One does not have to go far even in Central America life for women is not the same as it is for women in the States; its still very traditional especially among the poor. This is a life very difficult for me to understand. I have not been raised in a traditional household, the women in my family marry and divorce whenever they are fed up (some don't even marry), I enjoy sex without commitment and do not adhere to any religion, but I do not assume that because this is the way I live or have been raised that it is the best way for all people. The diversity of lifestyle choice is something I am comfortable with though there are issues that annoy me. I am not sure I would be able to tolerate living a restricted life but then again I don't have to and I am not going to assume that women in these other societies feel restricted. Sexual freedom has its own pitfalls, and if anyone has ever watched Sex In The City they would think that the average NY female is confused and neurotic (know for a fact quite a few of them are and I know I certainly have had my moments). Maybe its globalization confusing everyone with the notion that we all have to be tied to one another and have the same this that and the other, but it is not something I agree with.
Cambodia can now say no to a match, take the time to receive higher education and decide she prefers one male and not another and they call this being 'modern'. But still her virginity is guarded and she heeds her family's advice. One does not have to go far even in Central America life for women is not the same as it is for women in the States; its still very traditional especially among the poor. This is a life very difficult for me to understand. I have not been raised in a traditional household, the women in my family marry and divorce whenever they are fed up (some don't even marry), I enjoy sex without commitment and do not adhere to any religion, but I do not assume that because this is the way I live or have been raised that it is the best way for all people. The diversity of lifestyle choice is something I am comfortable with though there are issues that annoy me. I am not sure I would be able to tolerate living a restricted life but then again I don't have to and I am not going to assume that women in these other societies feel restricted. Sexual freedom has its own pitfalls, and if anyone has ever watched Sex In The City they would think that the average NY female is confused and neurotic (know for a fact quite a few of them are and I know I certainly have had my moments). Maybe its globalization confusing everyone with the notion that we all have to be tied to one another and have the same this that and the other, but it is not something I agree with.
Bells said:
No, it was not me, scroll up and see how the INSULTS about mullahs and indeed personal insults started pouring on me for expressing my opinion, please go back to the first page and see what someone called SPOOKZ wrote.
Bells, I said it before many times and I will repeat it again, I dont EXCUSE men for this horrible crime ( rape ) but I dont buy this argument that it is ALL and EXCLUSIVLY mens' fault. in many caes, it is WOMEN'S FAULT as well as men and I gave this example: YOU CANT WALK WITH A BASKET FULL OF DELICIOUS FOOD BETWEEN VERY HUNGRY PEOPLE AND THEN BLAME THEM FOR EATING YOUR FOOD, THIS IS JUST ABSURD.
I understand that but surely you dont know anything about Islam and you tend to make general statements about it and make false assumptions like muslim woman has to provide 4 witness for the rape to be reported, this is utter BS. clearly some members here turned their hate against Islam into slander and started questiong Islam and its treatment of women.
As long as we are debating away from religion, I have no problem, but why some PATHETICS insist on pointing the finger at Islam ??
And I respect your opinion but it seems you cant accept nor respect mine ( you always say my argument disgusts you and yet you come again and disucss things with me, you felt sorry for women in my family without knowing who they are and who I am and how I treat my wife !!! you are really SICK person ), Please refrain from such statements that touch my family if you want me to continue discussing things with you.
I am not saying the rapist should be excused, FAR FROM IT, I said and I am repeating that for the 10th time that in some cases it is NOT only the mens' fault, it is womens' fault AS WELL...notice the word AS WELL.
Wait a second here, there is a big difference between FORCING muslim women NOT to be modest and allowing other women to offend other cultures
Muslim women by their hijab DONT offend anyone, since when MODESTY offend anyone ??
But who said women in the west should cover up ???????? All I am saying is that women in the west have to dress modestly if they want to avoid sexual assults, rape, violence ....etc this is my OPINION, I am not going to FORCE anyone to do that, it is my own PERSONAL opinion and you should respect it as I respect yours. this opinion is stemed from Islam and its teachings which I find to be 100% accurate.
Why you dont put your question this way, why should MEN in the west have strict control because women want to dress revealing dress ????
You see bells, you are looking at the issue from one side, the women's side.
no this was not my argument, my argument was WOMEN DRESS PROVOCATIVELY in order to attract men's attention to their sexuality and arouse them without(men ) being able to have sex with them, and by doing so they( women) get a sense of satisfaction and feminism.
The example of theives apply only if you LET your house or shop open without any protection, if they break in so easily without keys then you have YOURSELF to blame AS WELL as those theives...note the word AS WELL.
But this jewellry store can display their wares behind PROTECTED GLASS, how theives will steal them if they were DISPLAYED behind well proteced glass and strict security arrangements ??????????
This is utter NONSENSE, can you provide evidence of rape cases in the winter equalling rape cases in the summer ??? how about cold and hot countries ???? I live in very cold country and in the summer the rape increases more than in winter, again due to DRESS CODE.
When it comes to childern it stoped becoming RAPE, it turns into PEADOPHILIA, big, very big difference INDEED. I suggest you find the difference between rape and PEADOPHILIA.
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Lucysnow said:
You know it will be really good advice to tell those ignorants here to have a trip to some other countries, maybe they can understand the world better.
Proud_Muslim said:
How about 12 years US.
7 years Egypt.
2 years Saudi.
Every summer in Turkey to visit sister married to Turk.
Every Year to Elsalvador to visit inlaws
Every other year to Egypt to visit extended family.
Every other year to France to visit family.
6 month germany
1 year london
3 month Bejing, Shanghai. Hong Kong
3 weeks Nepal
one month Spain during olympics 1992.
Business, pleasure, and sports competitions in:
France, Sweden, Check republic, Yugoslavia, Moscow,
Elsalvador, Mexico, Nicaragwa, Costarica, Guatemala, Peru, Ecuador, Argentine, Brazil, Columbia, Spain, many times to Canada, Turkey, Greece, and the list goes on and on.
I have never been to Australia or Alaska and they are next to my list
[Personal insult deleted]
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Lucysnow said:
You are throwing another spin to this discussion, that really is making things worse. You, Newyork, Sex and the City, are not the American way....Hijab, Niqab and stupidity are not the Islamic way. Blanket statements are what is getting us in trouble. Noone is giving humans credit for anything, just a low denominator sweep action at everybody and stabs in the dark.
Dress code, who the hell cares? Why is humanity deteriorating to the point where rags are now a statement of our core beings? Are all the forests protected, the animals saved, the hungry fed, the innocent freed, ect ect, so we can all fight over rag colors and Dress Codes. Codes my ass.
The only code that I'm interested in is the code of conduct. One that have taken 436th place behind Dress code, hair grooming, political affiliation, religious affiliation, ect...But again, ugly people on the inside need many layers to cover up their difficiencies.
And yes, Bush is the 64rd layer that we need to remove the layers on top of him, and will need another to free us from him, and it goes on.
Keep that in mind next place you're unarmed and alone at night.
To a point, you're right - the weak do "deserve what they get". But by that logic every child deserves every abuse, any man or woman more vulnerable than the next man or woman deserves whatever the world dishes out.
You argue that "might is right" - what I want is for you people to start living it. If it's okay for the Malaysians to rape American tourists, it's bloody well okay for the Americans to invade Iraq - or any other country for that matter. More importantly, it's perfectly okay for anyone and everyone to do whatever they like to you.
Somehow "might is right" ends where your precious flesh begins.
Why is that?
Which is bullshit, which only a helot like you would proclaim. I can go to a practically all-male venue like a metal concert wearing a small shirt and tight jeans and be treated with the utmost respect.
Insofar as drunk metalheads show respect to anyone, but such as it is. The only real rule of conduct one adheres to is to stay away from the pit as the presence of a woman generally ruins things - they're too concerned about avoiding hurting her.
I suspect that Aryan men simply do not have to resort to force in order to reproduce. But who knows?
They should have simply looted the natural wealth of the country, raped the attractive women, killed all the men strong enough to fight back and sold the rest into slavery.
Your argument, live in it.
"He who lives by the sword, perishes by the sword"
No, it was not me, scroll up and see how the INSULTS about mullahs and indeed personal insults started pouring on me for expressing my opinion, please go back to the first page and see what someone called SPOOKZ wrote.
sub human, you have no idea what a monster you are
YOU CANT WALK WITH A BASKET FULL OF DELICIOUS FOOD BETWEEN VERY HUNGRY PEOPLE AND THEN BLAME THEM FOR EATING YOUR FOOD, THIS IS JUST ABSURD.
ahh
sexual frikkin pathology. perversions and deviance due to suppresion. bring out the goats and little boys please
sub human, you have no idea what a monster you are
YOU CANT WALK WITH A BASKET FULL OF DELICIOUS FOOD BETWEEN VERY HUNGRY PEOPLE AND THEN BLAME THEM FOR EATING YOUR FOOD, THIS IS JUST ABSURD.
ahh
sexual frikkin pathology. perversions and deviance due to suppresion. bring out the goats and little boys please
Proud_Muslim said:
And what do you suggest? We starve them further so that they reside to a sea-food diet (everything they see they eat).
As you have elonquently put it, starving men is not a good thing..let them shake a female hand once in a while, be a shoulder for a girl to cry on, talk to a female friend, get an innocent back rub, kiss a girl friend, play sports with a girl.....give them some munchies so they don't get a heart attack on their wedding night.
Bells
Staff member
LOL I'm still laughing at this gem:
And Proud_Muslim
And Proud_Muslim
The French could use the same argument. Aren't the French saying that they are offended by the hijab? Aren't they arguing that the hijab is offensive because to them it is a sign of female submission to the male? Your hypocrisy in this argument never ceases to amaze me. When you discussed and argued the French law, you were quite right in saying that the French were wrong in their law because it stepped over the line of forcing the muslim women to adhere to the French culture of secularism. Yet you are quite happy for the Malaysian Government to do the same thing. And you even agreed that if the women don't like it, then they can leave. This totally contradicted your view in the French law post, where you asked the question, what about the muslims who were born in France and what about the french women who converted to Islam. Well PM, I put the same question to you, what about the Malaysian women who aren't muslim and were born there. Where would they go? So the French can't enforce their secular laws but it's alright for Malaysia to enforce a more restrictive muslim law, a law that was not in place before? Don't you think that reeks of hypocrisy? Why should the malaysians who aren't muslim adhere to a muslim law? In the same way as why should the french who are muslim adhere to a secular law? But since you will again argue that we all hate muslims, I wont bother expecting a coherent or logical answer.
Proud Syrian/Muslim,
A basket of delicious fruit has no sentience, cannot choose, cannot suffer, does not experience, etc.; therefore, the analogy to fruit is severly flawed.
Raping is a non-consuentual traumatic sexual voilation of another human
being (regardless of age or sex) and RAPISTS KNOW THIS. It is ABSURD to
think that anyone would defend this?
Rapists can be women just as well (althogh it is rarer than male assailants).
Bottom line, it is the rapist who is accountable... not the rape-ee.
I guess it all depends how you view failure. The accusation is directed at
me personally so I assume the U.S. is being referred to here. I am willing to
bet that YOUR country has significantly more rape problems than are reported.
I would bet the farm that the ratio of rapes reported vs. rapes is much higher
in the U.S. than in your country. I call that a success. I am willing to bet
that a variety of freedoms are mich higher in the U.S. than in your country.
I call that a success. With any freedom, there is explotation of it (rape in
this case) so we try to educate each other on societal values. There are
individuals whom fall through the cracks but the law is there to catch them.
Taking a slightly different approach to this, rape is a result of your genetics.
If I am not mistaken, it is something common to all mammals, in other words
you can't get rid of it. Some cultures (such as yours) take the approach of
reducing the 'temptation'. Other cultures take the approach of education and
coach individuals to make the correct decisions in life (with laws to catch
those whom make poor decisions). I am sure there are many other
approaches as well.
Once again, we're assuming the rapist is a man. If the rapist were female (as
does happen from time to time) then off course the woman is held
accountable. Regardless of who the rape-ee is, the rapist is the one
accountable. The rapist knowingly and intentionally forced a physical and
traumatic unconsentual action against another individual.
A basket of delicious fruit has no sentience, cannot choose, cannot suffer, does not experience, etc.; therefore, the analogy to fruit is severly flawed.
Raping is a non-consuentual traumatic sexual voilation of another human
being (regardless of age or sex) and RAPISTS KNOW THIS. It is ABSURD to
think that anyone would defend this?
Rapists can be women just as well (althogh it is rarer than male assailants).
Bottom line, it is the rapist who is accountable... not the rape-ee.
I guess it all depends how you view failure. The accusation is directed at
me personally so I assume the U.S. is being referred to here. I am willing to
bet that YOUR country has significantly more rape problems than are reported.
I would bet the farm that the ratio of rapes reported vs. rapes is much higher
in the U.S. than in your country. I call that a success. I am willing to bet
that a variety of freedoms are mich higher in the U.S. than in your country.
I call that a success. With any freedom, there is explotation of it (rape in
this case) so we try to educate each other on societal values. There are
individuals whom fall through the cracks but the law is there to catch them.
Taking a slightly different approach to this, rape is a result of your genetics.
If I am not mistaken, it is something common to all mammals, in other words
you can't get rid of it. Some cultures (such as yours) take the approach of
reducing the 'temptation'. Other cultures take the approach of education and
coach individuals to make the correct decisions in life (with laws to catch
those whom make poor decisions). I am sure there are many other
approaches as well.
Once again, we're assuming the rapist is a man. If the rapist were female (as
does happen from time to time) then off course the woman is held
accountable. Regardless of who the rape-ee is, the rapist is the one
accountable. The rapist knowingly and intentionally forced a physical and
traumatic unconsentual action against another individual.
so ahh.... mr prideful vanity...
on a personal note... if i slip my weewee into your sister and deflower her, will you kill her?
Parliament in Jordan has overwhelmingly rejected a proposed law imposing harsher punishments for men who kill female relatives in what are known as "honour killings".
It was the second time since June's elections that the lower house, the Chamber of Deputies, quashed the bill on such killings, which are mostly carried out by brothers and fathers against women who have had sex outside of marriage.
Islamists and conservatives opposed to the new law said it would encourage vice and destroy social values.
sept 2003
infact, about 70% of all female murders in jordan are honor killings.
so little fatima grows up adoring her 2 brothers (and they her). she is given in marriage, runs away, hunted down and slaughtered by adoring brothers. as you can see it is important to keep vice at bay. social values must be upheld
even if it means death
and it frequently does. never men. just bitches
on a personal note... if i slip my weewee into your sister and deflower her, will you kill her?
Parliament in Jordan has overwhelmingly rejected a proposed law imposing harsher punishments for men who kill female relatives in what are known as "honour killings".
It was the second time since June's elections that the lower house, the Chamber of Deputies, quashed the bill on such killings, which are mostly carried out by brothers and fathers against women who have had sex outside of marriage.
Islamists and conservatives opposed to the new law said it would encourage vice and destroy social values.
sept 2003
infact, about 70% of all female murders in jordan are honor killings.
so little fatima grows up adoring her 2 brothers (and they her). she is given in marriage, runs away, hunted down and slaughtered by adoring brothers. as you can see it is important to keep vice at bay. social values must be upheld
even if it means death
and it frequently does. never men. just bitches
Proud_Muslim to Bells said:
But how??? perhaps you should read your thread title, imposing a so called islamic dress code for non muslims have everything to do with Islam. If you wish to devate away from religion then DON'T POST IN RELIGION FORUM. Or do you wish to come to a forum full of hungry people and jiggle your delicious food infront of us and expect us to abstain from digging into Islam.
Proud_Muslim to Bells said:
You really need to understand the meaning of the word consent. If a woman is not consenting to sex, then the man is a criminal for raping her. Whether she could have avoided the situation is not the matter of this dicussion. It's like standing in a traffic court and saying that this accident could have been prevented if we put a ban on cars instead of discussing the merit of the case...rediculous reasoning on your part.
Proud_Muslim to Bells said:
Everyone should be free to wear what they want in accordance with the local laws. A country is free to dictate it's laws as see fit and voted on. So I approve both Malaysian code and Frensh code. Malaysia though will suffer the consequences of their backwardness when tourism stops, alienating the west, and other things, so will France suffer the consequences from alienating a few sick minded muslims....but in my view, this is a positive consequence.
Proud_Muslim to Bells said:
It's not modesty..modesty is to be INVISIBLE, not COVERED, big difference, modesty is meant so that one blends in and not provoke ANY negative attention. Women with Hijab attracts all kind of looks in the western world...In my view hijab is not a modest statement at all, it's a "Look at me, I'm muslim, I'm all rightous, I'm all covered up, I'm all....." It's far from modesty, it's a loud statement with a clear intent.
imagine the indignities, mr muslim. imagine this in a hyper-masculinized society such as the m.e
Female American troops in Iraq have killed Iraqis with bombs and bullets. They've won medals for valor and Purple Hearts for combat wounds. They've been captured as prisoners of war, killed by enemy fire and buried as heroes in Arlington National Cemetery.
American women have participated more extensively in combat in Iraq than in any previous war in U.S. history. They've taken roles nearly inconceivable just a decade or two ago -- flying fighter jets and attack helicopters, patrolling streets armed with machine guns and commanding units composed mostly of male soldiers.
what do you think? my bitches can make you guys......their bitches?
yeah yeah
you tards can yell impotently about satan and islam but we all know it aint about that, no?
Female American troops in Iraq have killed Iraqis with bombs and bullets. They've won medals for valor and Purple Hearts for combat wounds. They've been captured as prisoners of war, killed by enemy fire and buried as heroes in Arlington National Cemetery.
American women have participated more extensively in combat in Iraq than in any previous war in U.S. history. They've taken roles nearly inconceivable just a decade or two ago -- flying fighter jets and attack helicopters, patrolling streets armed with machine guns and commanding units composed mostly of male soldiers.
what do you think? my bitches can make you guys......their bitches?
yeah yeah
you tards can yell impotently about satan and islam but we all know it aint about that, no?