Malaysia bans the word Allah from bibles

First of all, you say the texts are too vague for the average person to interpret correctly, and then you tell me the correct interpretation. You must admit that there is room to interpret defense of Islam the way terrorists do, which is that the encroaching modernization in Islamic nations actually consitutes a religious war by western powers. Jihad can mean a personal struggle, but it also means war. There are all sorts of verses in the Quran that correlate non-believers with absolute evil, destined for everlasting hell, worthy of no respect or consideration, just death. The Hadith are even worse. You say that ordinary people don't even read or understand it much, which is even more worrisome. I would hate to see them when they do start to understand it. Christianity is no better, but at least it hasn't caused widespread murder for centuries.

I don't think my religion is perfect, because I have none.
 
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just a simple favor, can you show me those quran texts that encourage violence, actual textes,
also, murders happened in every civilisation, and don't say, that christanity didnt have a widespread like islam did,
we must all admit,( muslims chiristians, jews, and ... and ... and ...) that we all had murders and blood in our history,
we're not perfect,
so don't say that islam are the widestspreaded murders for centeries, what about europe's dark ages? they maked murders for centries too, even toaday, there's always murders, when you say murders, that doesnt mean all the society are murders, there's always bad people, even toaday, murders happen every day in the world, or even every 2 hours, but i'm sure there are plenty, but does that mean that the society and the civilisation and the people are all a buch of murders??
we all had bad times,
ALL
not less not more
 
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about the saying about that you said who don't beleive go to hell,
ok, that's our relegion saying, but it dont say kill them!! or something!
as the bible have some things that you may understand it wrong if you're nto chiritian, also about jews,
also, i noticed a great relation about in islam and christanity,
they both beleive in christ, noa and others
they both also say, that the christ will be back one day
islam say that an anti-christ will appear, pertendign he's the real one, and have some supernaturel powers,
and after he gain people's trust, he start to kill, then the real christ come to kill this lier, and peace will be spreaded, ...
those things are the sale in both quran and bible, i'm not sure of the anti-christ part in bible,

i'll make a topic about some things in islam
well, i think the communt things are not necessary to say :p
ignore it, if i maked a topic about it then we discuss it, but not here
 
I think you misunderstood me on one point. I meant Christianity did cause many murders and torturings, but it hasn't done so for a century or so. Christianity is certainly to blame for the persecution of witches and many innocent people. That is the danger of faith. It's not just that people are flawed, and that they might use religion to justify bad deed. Faith itself is wrong, and it is to blame for the violence that happens on top of the usual kind of violence that is endemic to the human race. Moderate faith is a gateway to fundamentalism.

Although Malaysia has now backed down, this is an example of how faith is divisive. Islam and Christianity are supposed to be based on the same traditions, and the same God.
 
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oh , i see, and also, i'm still sure, that murders happens every time,
i know that the western world, had many murders for centeries too, even at the last centery, world wars, ..., murders in america, ...
also, we had murders in all our history, so the western world, and so the asian world,
we are all the same. even the western world, before it had it's peace and developement, like toaday, it had thousnand of wars and muders intell they achived this peace in your side,
i don't know much about faith, every one look at it from a different prespective,
and i'm disucssing about relegion here at this point, i'm discussion about the civilisations, and contries, cause all had crimes, murders wars, so your not the best people that didnt had anywars or anymurders from centeries, we all had,
what about the worlds wars, and the inesint people who died, and the soliders that they left there families in the western contries, what about america, killing all those indians, wars, bfore uniting the united states, and not forgetting the south america.

i admit that we had a bloody history, and you must admit, that you had a bloody history too, and he also, must admit,
we all must, we all had the same kind of history, and the same miseries, glory, happiness, sadness, ...

now about the islam that encourage vilence, not because of those terrorists that say that they do what they do for god, (also, not all the terrorists are arabs or muslims, there are many, i think that you only try to see our bad side, like you don't have any, and don't think that we love or like the terrorists, or encourage them, or give them money, actually, i want find it weird if some of the betraiters, in the political places that may gave them some money) (what do you think about george bush? he's not better than terrorists) that doesnt mean that all people, and all muslims do those kinds of stuff.
and about the relegion racism in malysia, it happens all the time in anywhere in the world, and don't tell me, that none of christians of whatever attacked mosques, or jews temples,(don't know what they call it)
and malysia, have a serious problems, and she cant fix it, intell she accept the divercity of relegion, race, language and culture, not intell treating all human like humans, all at the same way,

i already posted some links, did you see them?!
if you didnt, i sugest you should,
that may show, that muslims are the only one who once attacked churches or something,

my point is, that we are all the same, we all share the same planet, the same kind, WE ARE ALL HUMANS!!! ALL HISTORIES ARE THE SAME!!!
EVERYTHING HAPPENED TO US, HAPPENED TO YOU ONCE!!
everything a culture did, you did it too,

also, not all the islamic and arabic contires are the same, not if you saw soem terrorists based in somewhere in the middle east, that means that the middle east are terrorists, or the north africa too,
terrorists in the middle east, based on lands, that it don't actually belong to them legaly or something, they are like aliens, shaped liek human, and acting like peoples of the area, my poin is, we don't love them

the people who fight in palastine, you cant call them terrorists, they are defending their contry, don't you have a heart? try to see them!! try to see the kids!!! the women!!! just take a look about the meseries there!!! and you still call them terrorists, the real terrorists are who caused all those meseried, peopel who caused this, are worse, at least terrorists, don't kill like that, they just attack with a bomb in a long time, but those people, they bomb and kill, evry day, they rap and force women to make sex with them, they force her to remove her hair cover, they just treat them like worst than animals, at least animals are not trated like that
 
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i agree that some pople, like terrorists, do what they do, and say it's for islam or god, :mad:
i know, we all hate that, not just me, not just all of you, not just you, and just him
we all hate that,
we are all HUMANS!!!
 
Has anyone realised that Malaysia has a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion and civil [not religious] jurisprudence and so this ban is not worth anything as it is unconstitutional?

A Malaysian court has overturned a government ban on non-Muslim publications using the word "Allah".

Ruling on a lawsuit filed by a Malaysian Roman Catholic church publication, the Kuala Lumpur High Court said on Thursday that the home ministry's ban on the use of the word "Allah" was "illegal, null and void".

Judge Lau Bee Lan said the term was not exclusive to Islam, adding that all Malaysians had the right to use the word under the constitution which guarantees freedom of expression and religion.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2010/01/20101114114404185.html
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Moreover, of all the so-called Muslim countries, the only one country where clerics supercede political jurisprudence is Iran all the rest have polities that override religious laws.
 
S.A.M. said:
Has anyone realised that Malaysia has a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion and civil [not religious] jurisprudence and so this ban is not worth anything as it is unconstitutional?

Moreover, of all the so-called Muslim countries, the only one country where clerics supercede political jurisprudence is Iran all the rest have polities that override religious laws.
Click to expand...

Its already been mentioned on the second page that the ban wasn't upheld and then the church burnings started. Why is this happening now is what I keep asking.
 
Lack of religious training of course. People who make such pronouncements know very little what they are talking about. The whole basis of Islam is that there is only one God.

But most importantly, its politics as usual. The war on terror has given right wing parties everywhere a free ride for religious discrimination.
 
S.A.M. said:
Has anyone realised that Malaysia has a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion and civil [not religious] jurisprudence and so this ban is not worth anything as it is unconstitutional?
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I don't know what it says about such things in the Malaysian constitution ....do you? You stated the above as if you know what the law is, Sam. So, ....tell us.

S.A.M. said:
Moreover, of all the so-called Muslim countries, the only one country where clerics supercede political jurisprudence is Iran all the rest have polities that override religious laws.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but there's a big difference between POWER and some words on a little piece of paper.

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
I don't know what it says about such things in the Malaysian constitution ....do you? You stated the above as if you know what the law is, Sam. So, ....tell us.



Perhaps, but there's a big difference between POWER and some words on a little piece of paper.

Baron Max
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Sure and in all countries except Iran, the power is with the governing polity. Only in Iran does the Supreme Council have power over the President.
 
At the moment they can keep 'allah' but it isn't allowed to be distributed to muslims in the country.

The whole thing seems strange to me. Its not as if the use of the word 'allah' is somehow new for malay christians. I'm just curious as to why its all a sudden a point of contention.
 
Same reason why the Swiss are suddenly banning minarets and the French are suddenly banning burqas. Politics as usual
 
But its not a different group. They are all malay. The swiss are dealing with a new immigrant population and the mosques were requested by a turkish radical religious group. The malays use allah in their bibles because its part of their language, I mean they are basically malays who at some point had converted. Also the swiss didn't deface or burn mosques like they have been doing in malaysia attacking churches.
 
Lucysnow said:
But its not a different group. They are all malay. The swiss are dealing with a new immigrant population and the mosques were requested by a turkish radical religious group. The malays use allah in their bibles because its part of their language, I mean they are basically malays who at some point had converted.
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Converted from what to what? Muslim to Christian? Maybe the Malays could visit Egypt/Sauid Arabia/ Morocco and hear the Christians and Jews say Hamdu'lillah and Masha'allah
 
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i hate politics, sometimes it's good, and sometimes it's bad,
i agree,
the lack of the educational system, and the relegion understanding is a big part of that
also, burning the churches, is a racist doing, and i'm sure who did it is sicologecly ill, and racist also,
but as always, if some people burned a church or hate it, that doesnt mean that every budy is racist, or terrorist, or sicologicly, ill
and about attacking churches,
soem racist chiristians did some of those actions too, i already posted some links at the page 5 of this discussion.

the governers should consentrate more to educate and learn their people about the ecaulity and relegion and the races divercity, also culture,
they should make more effort on that, by tv, education, ...
 
Shadow1 said:
about egypt teamn, praying to win, that's there thinking, did they hearted anyone
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Yes. They banned non-Muslims from playing on the team. Did you not read the article?

why do you critikize everything
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"Everything"? I don't think I criticize everything. You asked for examples of violence and oppression against non-Muslims in North Africa and elsewhere. I provided it. You seem to be getting very agitated.

also, chritians also attacked mosques,
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_35_115/ai_53475490/
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/226/226178_thugs_in_mosque_attack.html

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/sweden-malmo-mosque-attacked-with-gunfire/

SEE!!!
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Again: why so angry?

I read your articles - as perhaps you did not read mine - and found that in one the Christians were actually counterattacking (Malaysia, so not surprising ;) ); Malmo is noted as a hotbed of violence against non-Muslims in Sweden, and Manchester is racked with terrorist investigations and the like. So, not surprising, perhaps. The volume of such incidents still weighs more seriously in the Islamic world.

sorry for not replying all that long time, i was very busy with school and my social activities
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That's quite all right.

also, most of your inventions, werent during the christian ruling, but in the time when relegion don't mean much,
as i know, when europe was under the christiand churches ruling, it had the dark ages, while the arabs, when the had islam, they had a lightening ages,
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Very interesting points. There are two things that may be taken from this: i) that increasing religion is probably bad for development, and ii) I've just ordered a new book that discussed the significant role of the Islamic blockade of the Mediterranean against non-Muslim commerce in the creation of the Dark Ages. It would a curious thing - yet still seemingly intuitive - if one of the very points that Muslims use to critique Western Civilization's most major religion actually turned out to be the fault of Islam.

Yet, more importantly, I was under the impression that we were discussing conservative Islamic influences, rather than all Islamic influences, on native cultures.
 
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i'm not mad, sorry, that's my way of discussion sometimes,
:p
anyway, if you readed my previous replyes, i already said, we all had bloody history,
christanity also, in a previous time, you had the same problems that we face toaday,
itell the 21st centary, wars, murders, thousand of murders, ... political corruption...
those probelm, also we are facing it toaday,
remember that we started to awake again from our comma 60 years ago,
and for that time, we made a great progress,
so anyculture, and any civilisation in the world, had a bloody history,
chiristanity, islam, jews, budhaism, french, american, arab, chinese, and every race and every human civilisation ever existed
anyway, before you judge on islam, try to make a little search about it,
about it's principls, and stuff,
(ignore the insultign sites)
so my point is, you're not better than us, and we're not better than you, they also,
we are all the same
the onyl difference is, the revlution start, your awakign started from about 200 years ago, we arabs, it's just 60 years, some parts got it's independency and security and sunstable human and economic developpement, and some other still strugling for it's future, liek iraq and palastine,
and sudan, or other african contries,
it's just a matter of time,

i noteced in unswer of yours, when i said, we are normal pople just like you,
you said: yyeess....... it means yeah right!! also i noticed some agressive replys of yours, not all, some,
so you consider you self and the other people of teh wester world, are better or higher place than us, am i right?
most of you consider every other race that it's not western, it's lesser place than you,
it means yeah right!! also i noticed some agressive replys of yours, not all, some,

now back to the topic, don't tell me that you didnt had bloody history or murdes for centeries, you had world wars, you killed people, you killed indians, wars in america... i don't mean you by "you" i mean, your societies of those times, of the 19 and 20 centery,
did you get my point?
i supose not
 
Shadow1 said:
about the saying about that you said who don't beleive go to hell,
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The thing is Shadow, teaching people to think monotheistically encourages intolerance. Intolerance in-turn leads some people to be violent - as we can see in Malaysia but also in other countries and other time periods.

Think about this. In Japan they have Shinto Religion (polytheism) and Buddhism. Once about 250 years ago a Buddhist Priest decided there were no other true religions other than his. Now, Buddhist are normally open minded about other beliefs. But, this person wasn't. He was sure that only his form of Buddhism was true and that other Buddhists and Shinto were wrong. Well, after he gathered up some followers and taught them to think like this, they went about beating up people, smashing the Shinto Shrines and burning other Buddhists Temples.

All because of this intolerance and insisting that ONLY his was the True Prophet of Buddha.

People put up with this fellow and his violent followers for a couple of years. But, finally the Shogun had enough of it and sent in an army and massacred Him and all of his followers. It was the only way to ensure an end to this intolerant belief and stop the violence.


We live in a multicultural world Shadow. Most of the people in this world are not Muslim. And many that are Muslim are leaving Islam to other faiths or just to become atheist. If the violence continues, it's only natural that people will tire of it. So, it'd be better if we start changing Islam now, into something a little more modern.


The idea that there is and CAN only be One True Book from God and CAN only be One True "Last" Prophet and CAN only be One True God are, in effect, encouraging intolerance of other people's different beliefs. As an atheist I don't see anything positive coming from your ideology that we don't already have present in our secular societies. If anything I see a lot of negative in your ideology.




Maybe you can tell me of an ideology in Islam that you think is good and that we don't already have in the West? That could be a common point we could build on?
 
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