Malaysia bans the word Allah from bibles

[Baron Max]

The thing is Shadow, teaching people to think monotheistically encourages intolerance. Intolerance in-turn leads some people to be violent .....

Oh, Michael, where in hell did you ever come up with that kind of thing?!

Michael, there are some 3 billion or more people on Earth that are monotheistic. If that kind of religion leads them to be violents, then where is all the violence that should be happening??? 3 billion people being violent surely couldn't escape the news media reporters and cameras, could it?

C'mon, Michael, don't say crap like that ...it's simply not true and, worse, it leads to getting people pissed off. "...encourages intolerance.."???

And, Michael, do you not see ....in yourself ....just how freakin' IN-tolerant you are with regard to monotheism? You claim it's a problem in religions, but you do it with impunity?

Baron Max

 

[Michael]

Baron, it's a complicated topic.

I'm not saying all people who are monotheistic are violent. As a matter of fact, not all white supremacists are violent either. In certain situations people, being people, will turn violent. Yes, a small percentage of people in any group are violent - regardless. However, large percentage of monotheistic people are intolerant of other people of different faiths in a way that I'm not so sure if helpful in today's world. Oh, sure, they aren't going to go out there and harm them, but, they're also not going to lend them a hand if they can help it. Just like most racists aren't going to harm a black person, but, they certainly are not interested in being buddy buddy.

While I can not say being racist means a person is violent. I can say that the person is normally associated with being a bigot. Not always. There are exceptions yes. But, most people who are racist are bigots. And the more serious they are about their racism the more of a bigoted attitude they will have. And all know what this word means. And the implications. No one likes to be called a bigot. It's an affront. But, what then? Ignore it? Likewise with being a monotheist. I can not say being a monotheist means the person is violent. I can say the person is normally intolerant of the belief in other Gods. What good comes from this? Any? Sure, during the Age of Discovery and the Age of Conquest I'm sure monotheism work very very well - for the colonizers. Likewise during the Islamic Crusades. Likewise now in Israel.


As they say, even a blind man riding by on a bus can see it.


Yes Baron, I admit and have admitted I am intolerant too. We all draw a line somewhere in the sand. I don't like certain memes and I can't see how NOW in the modern era they benefit us. Certainly they can reworked at the vesy least!

 

[S.A.M.]

For 1400 years it was not a problem in Malaysia. Modern nationalism is the problem, not religion

As Buddhism says, the intent to possess gives birth to the intent to kill.

 

[Shadow1]

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it's true that there's intellorent people, there are all over teh world, i hate it when you said like it's only in islam, liek you don't have it,
there's always good and bad in ny part of the world,
there's always norrow minded and open minded
here's always dumms, and smarts,

and, do we have to be like you want us to be? cant we just keep doing our relegion stuff, without being criticized, if just tryed it, you'll se it's beautifull, esspecialyl the eid, not when the people make a barbq with a sheep, the other eid, it's when people forgive each other, visite each other, dress almost the best they have, the other eid, and also that eid, peopel donate to poor people, and help them with money, clothes, toys, food, and whatever, also in rammadhan, people help each other, people invite each other to eat the dinner together,
do you know what is the true spirit of ramadhan, it's about feelign what doo hungry people feel, it's about tryign to be like them, help them

to feel how they feel
do you find this bad, do you think we should change those?

and why should we even have to be like you,
don't you beleive in the divercity of cultures and relegons, i supose not

 

[Baron Max]

For 1400 years it was not a problem in Malaysia. Modern nationalism is the problem, not religion.

Yeah, but in many, if not most, parts of the world, you can't seperate those two things! Even in nations that make claims of secularism, religion often plays a very large part of a persons identity and philosophy ....and he votes!

No, SAM, you can't seperate religion and nationalism. And most definitely not in Malaysia.

Baron Max

 

[Shadow1]

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i have a question, what islamic or arabis crusades in israeil, shouldnt you say, the siraeil crusades in palastine?? after all, not the palastinians are who broth them there, and start attacking them, they came stealing the palastin lands,
i dont care for who it belongs in the past, cause toaday we're in the present, in the modern era,
if every culture, contry, or civilisation come toaday and say, that was my land 1000 years ago, that was my land 2000 years ago!!
in that cae, arabs, shoudl get back spain and cypruse, red indians should take back america, what about italy, it had teh roman civilisation, don't you think that it should take back all it's old lands,
see!!! it don't make sense,
cause spaing toaday is a contry, and cyprus belongs to italy, and america blongs to america,you cant make a war to take back lands, that used to be for them 2000 or 1500 years ago,
am i right?

 

[spidergoat]

The complex series of events that led to the independence of Israel cannot merely be summed up in the phrase, "taking back land they owned 2,000 years ago". While it's true, the Jews tried to keep their independent state that long ago, there was a small Jewish presence in the area ever since.

 

[GeoffP]

anyway, if you readed my previous replyes, i already said, we all had bloody history,
christanity also, in a previous time, you had the same problems that we face toaday,
itell the 21st centary, wars, murders, thousand of murders, ... political corruption...

Well, that's great. And one of the problems we are facing is increasing (conservative) Islamicization and Islamic supremacism. We talk of these problems as being recent, but in point of fact Islamic supremacism didn't just get invented 60 years ago. Purges, pogroms and suppression of non-Muslims has been going on in the Islamic world for 1400 years. It's like saying that an outbreak of Nazism tomorrow would have nothing to do with the Nazism of 1933-1945.

anyway, before you judge on islam, try to make a little search about it,
about it's principls, and stuff,
(ignore the insultign sites)

Naturally, it's true that I would avoid sites that exist only to groundlessly insult Islam, and I very much appreciate the tempering influences that (non-conservative) Islam has had on innumerable people. But I must ask: Which insulting sites do you refer to? What do you define as insult? Is it the same that an independent observer would call insulting? Is what these sites say true or untrue? Can you give me a specific example?

so my point is, you're not better than us, and we're not better than you, they also,

Agreed. Although naturally a social democracy is a superior form of government - as are most forms, to be factual - than Islamic republicanism.

we are all the same

Naturally.

the onyl difference is, the revlution start, your awakign started from about 200 years ago, we arabs, it's just 60 years, some parts got it's independency and security and sunstable human and economic developpement, and some other still strugling for it's future, liek iraq and palastine,
and sudan, or other african contries,
it's just a matter of time,

I hope so.

i noteced in unswer of yours, when i said, we are normal pople just like you,
you said: yyeess....... it means yeah right!!

It does not. It means "Yes, this point is self-evident: so what?"

also i noticed some agressive replys of yours, not all, some,
so you consider you self and the other people of teh wester world, are better or higher place than us, am i right?

Nope. You may see above for my comments on Islamically influenced government, however.

most of you consider every other race that it's not western, it's lesser place than you,

Also untrue.

now back to the topic, don't tell me that you didnt had bloody history or murdes for centeries, you had world wars, you killed people, you killed indians, wars in america... i don't mean you by "you" i mean, your societies of those times, of the 19 and 20 centery,

Yeeees...and? Am I denying this, as you denied the issue of treatment of non-Muslims in many Islamic societies? Do I defend this treatment? Is this thread about that? (Sam should be able to guide you to many such threads.) No. The point is that the history of such atrocities should be acknowledged. It should not be permitted to happen again. The same is true of more modern violations of human rights by Islamic societies. Tu quoque is not a rational defense of this. It might be more worthwhile to discuss how to end such practices. In the meantime, it goes on:

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Nort...many-faithful-and-too-many-prayers-17427.html

(Their complaint?: "too many faithful and too many prayers".)

did you get my point?
i supose not

Sorry: which of us was the aggressive one again?

 

[GeoffP]

in that cae, arabs, shoudl get back spain and cypruse,

Actually, Christianity, Judaism and various pagans and animists would regain all of North Africa and most of the Middle East. Spain was Muslim only as a byproduct of conquest, genocide and terror.

 

[GeoffP]

and why should we even have to be like you,
don't you beleive in the divercity of cultures and relegons, i supose not

It depends. What if my culture felt strongly that it ought to suppress, terrorize and extort local Muslims? Would you support this or not? If not, don't you believe in the importance of the diversity of cultures?

 

[S.A.M.]

Do you think oppression is a form of cultural diversity?

 

[Shadow1]

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i like your understanding, it's true, that soem contries, treat non-muslims with a different way, but where i'm from, i didnt actually see that, where i'm from, relegion is not much talked about, usually i talk about girls, hehehehehe, effcorse, without forgetting our culture and our relegion


what i ment by insulting sites is, that there's some sites, mockes of islam, like some pictures, i know it's the free thinking, but it's insulting, also, we have insulting picutres to the israeilans, also to some arab leaders, caricatures is what i mean,
also, sometimes, before i start to disscuss here, i tryed to see your media view of islam, soem good, some bad, the bad ones, shows maden pictures saying that all muslims are terrorists, and all teh other bad stuff


about the conquering of spain from arabs in the past, i don't call it terror, i call conquering, war and everythign that related to that word, not terrorisms, terrorism is most refering to those savadge criminal groups,


i hope that those things don't happen again in the future, as anyone of us hope,


now about we are all teh same, we're just all same by nature, i mean by our body structure and stuff, and actially, by natrue we're not all the same, there's many races, what i mean we're all the same, is that we all have feelings, we all feal anger, we all missunderstand, weshare all this and more,
you still consider us lesser place than you as humans,

 

[GeoffP]

Do you think oppression is a form of cultural diversity?

No. I was asking him. Or were you also asking him?

Welcome back, BTW.

 

[Shadow1]

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oh bytheway, we are not like you only see us on your media, the media, and the news channels, most times, show bad and negative news about us,
you see us terrorists, living in cities where bombs come from the sky everyday, where people are racists, where every thing is like you see on t.v. but actually, no,
ok, if you see always racist stuff, and relegion racists doings, dectators, and all those kinds of stuff, it's true that exists, as in anypart of the world,
and i'm not denying none of those, what i'm denyign is we're not all like that, some are bad, but most are peacefull, friendly, ...
there's always teh black and white picture, and there's always the multi colour picture,

so, when i see many racist doings in america, and many relegion racists, and many crimes, don't you think that i'll have bad thoght about you, liek some t.v series, and many t.v. shows, liek criminal minds, or, most shoking videos, or other criminal videos, actually, those are not all the people, those are just some people, the most are good and friendly, am i wrong?

so, what you see about us on t.v. is our negative side, wich every contry have, no exption, every contry have those problems, and those kinds,

 

[Shadow1]

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responding to your question, no i don't support terror, none of us do,
and i don't beleive in wars, but when it comes about defending their contry, i agree,

and about teh divercity of culture, effcorse i do, the arabic culture, took a litte from each culture, and mixed them together, and added it's touch,
don't see from teh architecture, that it's kinda look like roman, also liek indian, and others

 

[Shadow1]

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also, i don't agree on treating other peopel from different relegions defferently,
i have many christian friends, from chat,
and actually i know two chirstian tunisians arabs, from here, and they are both my friends, and they are treated normal, here in tunisia, and most of the maghreb contries, peopel don't treat each other depending on their relegion, but dependign on their personalities and there morals, not there races or relegion,
effcorse, there's always soem racists,
as in any part in the world

 

[Shadow1]

.

did you read my previous replyes?

 

[Michael]

For 1400 years it was not a problem in Malaysia. Modern nationalism is the problem, not religion

While modern nationalism may exacerbate the problem, the problem is religious.

It reminds me of when the Indonesian Muslims burned down the Mosques and murdered Indonesian Ahmadiyya Muslims. Actually, 90% of Muslims in Indonesia are intolerant of Ahmadiyya Islam. SO much so that they're trying to pass a law making it a punishable crime to be an Ahmadiyya Muslim. This means they want a law on the books to justify their intolerance of Ahmadiyya Islam.

Or how about when the Taliban Muslims blew up those 2500 Buddhist Statutes?

Or how about when the Muslim Shia in Iran attacked the newly forming religion of the Baha'i as blasphemous - eventually they succeeded in murdering their religious leader.

Or how about when the Muslims kicked the Christians out of their Church of Sophia and converted it into a Mosque.

Or when the Muslims attacked and denigrated so many Zoroastrians they had to leave Persia for India.

Or when the Muslims built a Mosque right on top of the Jews Temple Mount.

Or how about when the Muslims, led by Mohammad, smashed the Statues to the Arabs Polytheistic Gods?

We could do on and on here so lets stop and sum up. Yeah, Nationalism may exasperate religious sentiment, but make no mistake about it, Islamic Intolerance, and disrespect for other people's belief systems has been an on going affair of hatred for 1400 years.

 

[Shadow1]

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first, christian did teh same things in the past,
second, there's no such thing calls Taliban muslims, taliban is a terrorist,
third, the jerusalam doom, didnt belong neither to muslims, neither to jews, neither to chritians,
oh i forgot, chiritians never did those things in the past, and they are not doing it toaday right, what about palastine, and iraq, and sudan, u.s. if fuelign teh inner wars of sudan,
and are you saying, that every civilisation should take back it's land that used to belong to them before 2000 or 2500 years from now, oh, mayeb italy should take all it's old lands, oh, what about incas, and red indians, and aztects, don't you think they should take back their lands too?, oh, what about egypt, don't you think that it should take back all it's odl terrotories??
forth: you're out of the topic, we're not talking about relegion problems here,ok?
we're talkign about the ancient inventions of the medival arabic islamic empire

so pleas, don't discusse this here,
if you were kidna racist, or intollerent, of a dictator in your thinking, then saty away,
but i hope that you bee open-minded and don't go off-topic

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

responding to your question, no i don't support terror, none of us do,
and i don't beleive in wars, but when it comes about defending their contry, i agree,

and about teh divercity of culture, effcorse i do, the arabic culture, took a litte from each culture, and mixed them together, and added it's touch,
don't see from teh architecture, that it's kinda look like roman, also liek indian, and others

Shadow1, lets just leave it at that that YOU don't support terrorism, but about the others, that's an entirely different story, unless you consider yourself capable enough to speak for ALL the other Muslims.