Let's all have a big fight over my mortal soul.

Varda said:
but then, you are just transfering the problem to a different level. Who designed the designer?


evolution doesn't need a designer, it works through natural selection... natural selection allows for complexity to arrise if small leaps which are LOT more probable
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If you assume the universe is always there, what keeps you from assuming the designer is?
 
redarmy11 said:
If they represent the indisputable truth there's nothing wrong with forcing them on people.

And there's the rub.
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you gave in way too easily
i would like you to try again with sam

the most outrageous premises could be accepted when accompanied by fallacious appeals to emotion

i am a good guy and i will never force my view on anyone.

do you see?
now
ask yourself, who is being forced, who is doing the forcing. why is it being forced? how is it being forced? what is being forced?

go on buddy
nothing to it

my endgame includes accusing sam of ......you dont care about the children, you never did /sob

/cackle
 
Gustav said:
you gave in way too easily
i would like you to try again with sam
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I've got no interest in arguing with sam. I'm not out to convince her or anyone else of anything, with regard to the origins of the universe and everything in it, as I don't presume to know.

I do recognise that most of her responses to your most challenging questions have been deflections though. She should address those. I think she's a bit weary from debating this kind of thing, so forgive her for that. Try asking her again.
 
S.A.M. said:
If you assume the universe is always there, what keeps you from assuming the designer is?
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I don't assume, I didnt get there, I'm only talking about evolution of live, which you know happened at least a couple of days before the bigbang :p

There is no knowing before the bigbang, we can't assume about what there was before it. the laws of physics as we know didn't exist... there is no basis for assumption.

As far as our universe as we know it is concerned, there is so far no better explanation for it than the bigbang theory... because it is an explanation, other than summoning an all powerful entity to fill in the gap
 
redarmy11 said:
I do recognise that most of her responses to your most challenging questions have been deflections though. She should address those. I think she's a bit weary from debating this kind of thing, so forgive her for that. Try asking her again.
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Quite right, also I'm not out to convince or convert anyone here.

Personally I see no difference between a preacher who preaches, I hate homosexuality but I don't hate gays, they can be "helped" to be better members of society.

And a Dawkins who goes I hate religion, but not theists, they can be helped to etc.

In both cases, the presumption being that help is required or even asked for.:rolleyes:
 
whatever
it is a specific semantical formulation, its conceptual underpinnings and consequent implications that is in question

no origins in sight
 
Varda said:
but then, you are just transfering the problem to a different level. Who designed the designer?


evolution doesn't need a designer, it works through natural selection... natural selection allows for complexity to arrise if small leaps which are LOT more probable
Click to expand...

Wikipedia said:
Natural selection is the process by which favorable traits that are heritable become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable traits that are heritable become less common. Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, such that individuals with favorable phenotypes are more likely to survive and reproduce than those with less favorable phenotypes
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Just think about that. Why did humans evolve? because it could not have been merely to 'survive and reproduce' when the prvious version is still around and has the same basic requirements as modern humnans.

ID: it is referance to entire ecosystems, the method of creating life is not known.
 
Varda said:
not americans! atheists...i think what he is doing is to give atheists a little confidence to get our of the closet
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To be honest i think the last thing civilization needs is another movement. The solution is simple: live where you will be accepted because somewhere someone will find a way to make things hard for you. Atheist clubs are not necessary in U.S and the notion is a bit comical.
 
Gustav said:
whatever
it is a specific semantical formulation, its conceptual underpinnings and consequent implications that is in question

no origins in sight
Click to expand...

The presumption being that some people know what is good for everybody else? Thats one step from fascism, is it not?
 
John99 said:
Just think about that. Why did humans evolve? because it could not have been merely to 'survive and reproduce' when the prvious version is still around and has the same basic requirements as modern humnans.

ID: it is referance to entire ecosystems, the method of creating life is not known.
Click to expand...


they had the same basic requirements (except I am not sure but I think that modern man has the largest brain among primates) but modern humans were better at surviving and reproducing
 
S.A.M. said:
Thats one step from fascism, is it not?
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Depends where you are located, some places have different names for it. If we want to go through life staunchly adhering to labels and demonising a word instead of the whole then yes...you would be correct. But i dont think that is the case here.
 
but anyways, SAM, is there a reply to the improbability of a creator, or a designer if you preffer? or are ou going to try and make me quit saying again that there is no deffinition?
 
John99 said:
Just think about that. Why did humans evolve? because it could not have been merely to 'survive and reproduce' when the prvious version is still around and has the same basic requirements as modern humnans.
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We needed to think about our place in the universe.
 
Varda said:
but anyways, SAM, is there a reply to the improbability of a creator, or a designer if you preffer? or are ou going to try and make me quit saying again that there is no deffinition?
Click to expand...

Its your choice what you believe; I believe the whole universe is connected; the hows and whys are beyond my comprehension, but it seems to me illogical that everything is connected and meaningless. The tiniest natural process has a function and a reason for being. I just apply that to the whole jingbang
 
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