James Randi

Billy, tell me, did you actually admit astrology to be a scam ??

No, if you re-read it the suggestion is that when you're offered something too good to be true or plays on human psychology i.e tv adverts, offers from banks etc then its generally a scam.

I'd put mediums, clairvoyants in this category and indeed some astrologers although I'd suggest they fall into a different category. Obviously skeptics will disagree here but astrologers rarely plant people, tape record clients and so on. In fact the Assoc of Prof. Astrologers has very stringent rules..I can't list them all now but rest assured I could give a whole host of differences.

James Randi is someone who I have some respect for. The Editor of the Skeptic by baffling coincidence actually worked at the Uni in Salford as me whe I was student. In actuality we agreed about astrology on many points...certainly he could see that 'in general' astrologers came from a different angle. More laidback, less evangelist about 'the other side' and playing on the fears of clients. There are exceptions of course but generally this is so. Possibly Randi is of the same opinion.

Of course Randi has done a service in revealing the widespread trickery used by mediums. He would know...thats his job title. Magician.

I suspect though that most of us were well aware that some trickery was used by Clairvoyants or whatever they call themselves. We would hardly be surprised if some friend were planted in the audience prior or during the show. After all its an age old scam used since the days of snake oil salesmen to modern day salesmen or at market stalls. Even the President of the United States to PM Blair scam the public...in fact thats my usual speciality and stock in trade. Most of my posts elsewhere are about revealing the scams used by Politicians...for example, the new PM has already scammed the public by reducing the main tax whilst subtly increasing a minor tax. Now even the media swallow the scam hook, line and sinker because they concentrate on the headline grabber rather than an obscure stealth tax.

When you check you wallet afterwards you find that you are several pounds lighter.

When I subscribed to both the US and UK Skeptic my interest dwindled because astrology featured less and when it did feature it was far less convincing than other subects from crop cirles to whatever was the current fad. I'm chary of using cliches but there is a case of 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'. Seemingly they were sceptical of everything...in the early days they even ridiculed the use if acupuncture as being 'all in the mind'.

One of James favourite tricks was to give astrologers the chart of a serial killer and then wait for the results from various internet astrologers. Apart from the fact that many of them are computerised reading, thats a trivial point compared to the real flaw here.

No Astrologer would dispute that heredity and environment play major roles in the character. Its one of the reasons why most prefer a one to one meeting, although the internet has changed that to some extent. An anlysis for an Aristocrat would be viewed differently than someone who just arrived as an itinerant worker from Somalia...even in a scenario where they had similar charts.

Now if you are going to hand out the chart of a Serial Killer it is a false premise. The rationale of science is on the astrologers side here because we know that most, if not all, serial killers have some brain damage/dysfunction. Its akin to testing astrology be handing out the data for a person lying in a deep coma with severe brain damage and asking them for an analysis of that persons future.

Its merely a trick, a scam, a deceit performed by Randi on the astrologer yet he repeats this all the time as evidence. Its isn't. James.

My advice - stick to mediums, spoon benders and people with twitching sticks...theyre easily testable. If you can't find water with a dowsing rod then it don't work. Full stop.
 
No, if you re-read it the suggestion is that when you're offered something too good to be true or plays on human psychology i.e tv adverts, offers from banks etc then its generally a scam.

Astrology fits that category.

I'd put mediums, clairvoyants in this category and indeed some astrologers although I'd suggest they fall into a different category. Obviously skeptics will disagree here but astrologers rarely plant people, tape record clients and so on. In fact the Assoc of Prof. Astrologers has very stringent rules..I can't list them all now but rest assured I could give a whole host of differences.

Sorry, your word is worth nothing based on your past lies.

My advice - stick to mediums, spoon benders and people with twitching sticks...theyre easily testable. If you can't find water with a dowsing rod then it don't work. Full stop.

Then, by your own logic, if astrology can't make predictions, it don't work. Full stop.
 
Astrology fits that category.



Sorry, your word is worth nothing based on your past lies.



Then, by your own logic, if astrology can't make predictions, it don't work. Full stop.

:bravo: :worship:
 
Whilst you're on your knees, Enmos, you may care to reconsider the post my analysis being, in the main... 'spot on'.

Followed by another who suggested it was 100% accurate.

Be careful who you pray for? prevaricating subservience is embarrassing.
 
Whilst you're on your knees, Enmos, you may care to reconsider the post my analysis being, in the main... 'spot on'.

Followed by another who suggested it was 100% accurate.

Be careful who you pray for? prevaricating subservience is embarrassing.

:confused: :crazy:
 
Astrology fits that category.



Sorry, your word is worth nothing based on your past lies.



Then, by your own logic, if astrology can't make predictions, it don't work. Full stop.

Hardly, Old bean..scientists from Pythagoras to Sir Isaac Newton to Carl Jung were ardent believers in astrology. Get your facts right before talking such arrant nonsense.

Now..one thing I've never been accused of is lying. I don't intend to start now. I can be accused of many things, but I'm 100% honest and decent, you swine!!!

No, although its hardly an exact science ..and thank god it isn't. If everything was so 'easily' predicted then why bother?.
 
Hardly, Old bean..scientists from Pythagoras to Sir Isaac Newton to Carl Jung were ardent believers in astrology. Get your facts right before talking such arrant nonsense.

So, essentially, your argument for astrology is that you believe it because people who lived centuries ago believed it?

By your own logic, you must believe the Earth is flat.

Nonsense, indeed.

Now..one thing I've never been accused of is lying. I don't intend to start now. I can be accused of many things, but I'm 100% honest and decent, you swine!!!

You've been accused of lying many times on this board, alone. You've yet to show that you're not a liar.

No, although its hardly an exact science ..and thank god it isn't. If everything was so 'easily' predicted then why bother?.

FYI - astrology is NOT a science, in any way, shape or form.

But, at least you're starting to be honest, in that you're admitting astrology can't predict anything.
 
It can't predict the lottery, Q..no matter how many times you ask.

Actually this leads to a very good question, which should have been answered right off the bat:
What can astrology do?
I will be honest and tell you that I will pick apart your response (particularily any vague statements)
However, if you are going to claim 'astrology is real' you had better say what it does.

-Andrew
 
Its a peculiar question.

One may as well ask Dawkins what 'memes' do? and then I can 'pick that apart' for being a rather vague theory.
 
It can't predict anything, no matter how many times you claim it can.

You'd have to ask those people who I've 'forecasted' for consistently. Theres not much point in me claiming the plaudits. I'd never use the word 'prediction' personally.

I can use an example from a few weeks ago where I was asked by an American who was about to be thrown out of the country due to work permit issues. To get the work permit she needed a job and it had to be a permanent rather than temporary.

Everything in the chart suggested a positive answer and the forecast suggested a stability that was absent previously. Its a question of experience..you get a feel for it by constant practice so it helps to specialise in certain areas. The results of job interviews came from a mix of astrology and the people who were asking - mainly office workers.

Very occasionally you get a chart thats so complex and has so many variables its best to just answer 'pass' on that question so no, its not an exact science. Whether its an Art of a Science is neither here nor there. I just go off results. If in the main the results are accurate then its good enough for me.

If its not good enough for sceptics or whatever doesnt interest me.
 
I mean one post I put forwards to you that Astrology only centres itself around one solar system with the known planets, however it lacks other planetary bodies that exist to the edge of our solarsystem or the fact that all the other stars out there have planets surround them with their own solar systems. To suggest that there is any Scientific method where *Just* the planets within our solar system could cast not just weight in regards to shaping a persons direction but their mood and stereotyped personality is ludicrous which is why Astrology is in the realm of a Pseudo-science. (Since it is false)

I wrote that (with some spelling corrections) a few posts back, but no comment from the OP about "What of the other planets, solar systems and the other great features of the known/unknown universe?
 
I don't believe in fortune telling etc., but Randi is a smug little oik, and if I died and got the chance I'd haunt the B_______
 
You'd have to ask those people who I've 'forecasted' for consistently. Theres not much point in me claiming the plaudits. I'd never use the word 'prediction' personally.

A forecast IS a prediction.

I can use an example from a few weeks ago where I was asked by an American who was about to be thrown out of the country due to work permit issues. To get the work permit she needed a job and it had to be a permanent rather than temporary.

So what? You stated the obvious. Is that how astrology works?

Everything in the chart suggested a positive answer and the forecast suggested a stability that was absent previously. Its a question of experience..you get a feel for it by constant practice so it helps to specialise in certain areas. The results of job interviews came from a mix of astrology and the people who were asking - mainly office workers.

We're back to cold reading, again. Is that how astrology works?

Very occasionally you get a chart thats so complex and has so many variables its best to just answer 'pass' on that question so no, its not an exact science. Whether its an Art of a Science is neither here nor there. I just go off results. If in the main the results are accurate then its good enough for me.

I repeat, astrology is NOT a science, in any way, shape or form. Please try to remember that.

If its not good enough for sceptics or whatever doesnt interest me.

You're stating the obvious, again.

That MUST be how astrology works. State the bloody obvious. :D
 
A forecast IS a prediction.

I repeat, astrology is NOT a science, in any way, shape or form. Please try to remember that.

You're stating the obvious, again.

That MUST be how astrology works. State the bloody obvious. :D

This same crticisms could be applied to meteorology as well couldnt they? 100% accurate forecasting(predicting) is a little much to ask for a system as complex as weather (or future events).
 
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