James Randi
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First: I dont understand why you put quotes around "writing for the masses" since I never wrote that phrase.
Second: I don't see how you derived that I stated "individuals here are the 'masses' " or what relevance it has to the argument.
Conclusion: You have dyslexia or another form of impaired reading ability, or did not take the care to read my post and understand it.
Next, if a reasoned argument via analogy, is "twaddle" and "pitifull excuses" then there is no point in carrying this debate since you cannot understand it.
I admit I have difficulty understanding your main body paragraph, do you mean to say that Tolkien has no tallent as an author? If so, then all I can say is that you fallsified your own argument with a previouse post of yours:
Furthurmore, I also fail to see any logic behind your final conclusion, perhaps due to my incomprehension of the previouse paragraph. However, it is clear you do not understand my argument, so I will restate it very explicitly and specificly:
This argument addresses the claim that if astrology is fake, than the supposed astrological readings should be creatable by anyone, with the same quality of one who calls themself an astrologer.
Thus the analogy is that:
If we replace 'astrologer' with 'author.'
if we replace 'astrological reading' with novel.'
and if we replace 'astrology' with 'high-fantasy writtings'
then what we derive is the argument: "If high-fantasy writtings are false, then novels should be creatable by anyone, with the same quality as those of one who calls themself an author."
Or more specificaly the analogy I used: "If The Lord of the Rings is false(did not actualy happen.) then novels of equal quality to Tolkiens, should be creatable by anyone."
Anyone can see the glaring fallacy in the above analogy, which points out the fallacy of the initial claim in debate, and thus prooves the claim to be false.
Ultimatly, this means Billy, that your challenge for other people to provide astrological readings, and subsequent failure of anyone to do so, does not proove that astrology is incorrect.
I hope I have made myself clear.
-Andrew
<< You have dyslexia or another form of impaired reading ability >>
Can you add those onto a long list of other ailments I've been allocated with..I dont recall being quite so pompous but then I refuse to descend to your low level of abuse.
<< I hope I have made myself clear >>
Er..no you havent. Its twaddle.
Can you add those onto a long list of other ailments I've been allocated with..I dont recall being quite so pompous but then I refuse to descend to your low level of abuse.
<< I hope I have made myself clear >>
Er..no you havent. Its twaddle.
And yet, you still haven't cleared your tarnished name. You're still either a liar or deluded, as evidenced by your extraordinary claims that haven't even the most mediocre evidence. Moreover, you're an intellectual coward as evidenced by your continued avoidance of the challenge to produce evidence and your attempt to shift the burden of proof to your critics.
A lying/deluded coward.
A lying/deluded coward.
Actualy, I revise my position, it is clearly option 2 : You dont take the time to read and understand posts, since you completely ignored that option and assumed I was attacking you.
If you cannot understand my post, either you are being ignorant, or I have lost touch with what a person can reasonable be expected to understand. If that is so, then I would expect SkinWalker, Q, or anyone else, to point out to me that my argument is unclear.
However, I doubt it is the latter, and thus I will tell you that: ignoring my argument does not invalidate it. Ie: You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream, but that won't change the conclusion.
-Andrew
By all means.
I've suggested that Randi isn't such a bad chap, he uncovers frauds and mediums but they carry on anyway. One wonder why he bothers.
But he does!
Why?
He must earn a fair amount of money telling us the blatently obvious. His website is laughable...mediums use skullduggery! lol thanks Jamie..we were totally convinced by ectoplasm and oddballs presenting shows on minor tv channels. The trailer trash like them...why take away their candy bars?
Its akin to George Bush trying to ban 'the Simpsons'..or exclaiming 'Say no to drugs!'..people like watching Jerry Springer..who am I to take it away from them. They're happy..we take what we need out of life.
But he does!
Why?
He must earn a fair amount of money telling us the blatently obvious. His website is laughable...mediums use skullduggery! lol thanks Jamie..we were totally convinced by ectoplasm and oddballs presenting shows on minor tv channels. The trailer trash like them...why take away their candy bars?
Its akin to George Bush trying to ban 'the Simpsons'..or exclaiming 'Say no to drugs!'..people like watching Jerry Springer..who am I to take it away from them. They're happy..we take what we need out of life.
Too bad some have to resort to lying and deceit to take what they need, eh Billy?
Well yes..Stryder would shut down a thread by having the last word but I'm not intereted in petty egotism..I know moderators only too well. And I gained plaudits by allowing freedom and a little thing called Free Speech.
One member at least is left bereft by the cowardice of the sceptics. Time and time again I gave them every cahnce to speak..but instead they squeaked..like mice.
One member at least is left bereft by the cowardice of the sceptics. Time and time again I gave them every cahnce to speak..but instead they squeaked..like mice.
<< This argument addresses the claim that if astrology is fake, than the supposed astrological readings should be creatable by anyone, with the same quality of one who calls themself an astrologer.
Thus the analogy is that:
If we replace 'astrologer' with 'author.'
if we replace 'astrological reading' with novel.'
and if we replace 'astrology' with 'high-fantasy writtings'
then what we derive is the argument: "If high-fantasy writtings are false, then novels should be creatable by anyone, with the same quality as those of one who calls themself an author."
Or more specificaly the analogy I used: "If The Lord of the Rings is false(did not actualy happen.) then novels of equal quality to Tolkiens, should be creatable by anyone." >>
Well the answer to that is in what way is a description of someone as being 'stubborn and control freak' beyond all the abilities of but a chosen few such as me.
Dont get me wrong..I'm highly flattered to be placed on the same plinth as Tolkien, Poe, Asimov, Arthur C.Clarke...to be fair I'd settle for a comparison with the writers of Dr. Who or Star Trek..but as I say its a very silly post and now everyone - but you - can see that with their own eyes.
There is no great talent in calling someone 'a control freak'..try it...and then write Lord of the Rings.
Thus the analogy is that:
If we replace 'astrologer' with 'author.'
if we replace 'astrological reading' with novel.'
and if we replace 'astrology' with 'high-fantasy writtings'
then what we derive is the argument: "If high-fantasy writtings are false, then novels should be creatable by anyone, with the same quality as those of one who calls themself an author."
Or more specificaly the analogy I used: "If The Lord of the Rings is false(did not actualy happen.) then novels of equal quality to Tolkiens, should be creatable by anyone." >>
Well the answer to that is in what way is a description of someone as being 'stubborn and control freak' beyond all the abilities of but a chosen few such as me.
Dont get me wrong..I'm highly flattered to be placed on the same plinth as Tolkien, Poe, Asimov, Arthur C.Clarke...to be fair I'd settle for a comparison with the writers of Dr. Who or Star Trek..but as I say its a very silly post and now everyone - but you - can see that with their own eyes.
There is no great talent in calling someone 'a control freak'..try it...and then write Lord of the Rings.
I thought you said you don't cold read, I mean I've given you no astrological dates and you already claim to know my archetype through stereotyping. Well I can definitely point out that you are wrong, especially in regards to egotism.
It was stated previously in the thread that if it should hit the magic number of pages (20) it would be closed down [It's even stated in the Rule section for this subforum], I actually waited for the full 400 post count before doing so, it could of been shut circa 20 posts sooner.
As for Freedom of Speech, that is constantly a topic brought up and constantly a topic shot down. Such liberties are only available in the free world(Which there isn't much of nowadays), live with it.
I think it's more along the line that time and time again you prattled a bunch of nonsense in an attempt to get people to flame you just to adopt attacking from an Ivory tower. You proved absolutely nothing other than you like the sound of your own comments.
I mean one post I put forwards to you that Astrology only centres itself around one solar system with the known planets, however it lacks other planetary bodies that exist to the edge of our solarsystem or the fact that all the other stars out there have planets surround them with their own solar systems. To suggest that there is any Scientific method where *Just* the planets within our solar system could cast not just weight in regards to shaping a persons direction but their mood and stereotyped personality is ludicrous which is why Astrology is in the real of a Pseudo-science. (Since it is false)
On topic do you think Randi would see any differently in regards to your current behaviour?
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Your first scentance (which was a question, correct?): calling someone 'stubborn and a control freak' does not take great talent. If this is all astrology does, then here allow me, a non-astrologer, to refute your claims of astrology being right:
Billy, you are stubborn and a control freak.
OMG! An astrological prediction made by a someone not using star-charts!
Now seriously: it doesnt take a talent to formulate a scentance, I never stated that, your are using a strawman argument.
Next, whether my post is 'silly' or not does not negate the argument presented. If you beleive it does, you had better back up your claim. No-one else has expressed the opinion that my post is 'silly', you have thus made an unfounded assertion. Back it up, or it's worthless.
As for your final scentance, I believe my first paragraph covered that; strawman.
To conclude: I am still awaiting a valid, non-fallitic, refutation of my argument, which refutes your claim that astrology is prooven true if a layman(ie non-astrologer) cannot make a convincing 'astroloical reading'.
In case you are wondering where you expressly made this claim, see post number 24 of this thread.
-Andrew
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Actually its done with some frequency although seemingly its beyond the ken of the posters here. Certainly James Randi has used a generalised chart reading with some effectiveness and he uses transparent kiddology that can be easily taken apart. Of course the public are easily fooled..whether it by politicians or tv adverts. Its all a scam.
I'll go into more detail at another time - err not midnight! - but its fairly mediocre and mundane fare. It takes no great 'talent' to use certain buzzwords and buzz phrases 'such as "you are quite creative" and you have a 'good sense of humour'...we're all creative to a certain extent and who on earth goes around saying they have no sense of humour.
Well possibly some of the people on here.
All I can add is that it bears no resemblance to the chart reading I've come across although we all share generalised traits - its one of the reasons why it makes sense to use those of people who are more than ordinary.
Then your post completely supports the fact that astrology is BS.
Unless what you mean to say is tha your astrological predictions are not so obviously general and vague, in which case, the above argument is a strawman diversion. You sure like those don't you?
-Andrew
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Billy, tell me, did you actually admit astrology to be a scam ??
On the subject of "Cold Reading" - might I lead you to a well-known (in UK, at least) psycho-illusionist - Derren Brown.
He's someone who, by dint of his training as a psychologist and a magician, happily #@!%s with peoples' heads.... and admits it's all trickery, slight of hand and psychology.
In something like 4 cities around the world he took 10 subjects in each city.
He claimed with just a drawn outline of the peoples' hand and a personal object he could give them a reading that he hoped would be fairly accurate.
He took the 10 hands and objects in each city and then, about an hour later, handed each of them their "reading".
There was 1 person who said that the reading was nothing like him at all - but the rest seemed to think it was anywhere from 80% to 95% accurate - including some of the details. They were all gobsmacked / stunned / amazed.
Until he told them to swap sheets with someone else.
They were all the same.
Cold reading works - in as much as it is a scam.
He's someone who, by dint of his training as a psychologist and a magician, happily #@!%s with peoples' heads.... and admits it's all trickery, slight of hand and psychology.
In something like 4 cities around the world he took 10 subjects in each city.
He claimed with just a drawn outline of the peoples' hand and a personal object he could give them a reading that he hoped would be fairly accurate.
He took the 10 hands and objects in each city and then, about an hour later, handed each of them their "reading".
There was 1 person who said that the reading was nothing like him at all - but the rest seemed to think it was anywhere from 80% to 95% accurate - including some of the details. They were all gobsmacked / stunned / amazed.
Until he told them to swap sheets with someone else.
They were all the same.
Cold reading works - in as much as it is a scam.