James Randi

[Atom]

I wrote that (with some spelling corrections) a few posts back, but no comment from the OP about "What of the other planets, solar systems and the other great features of the known/unknown universe?

The OP?

To be fair its unlikely to conjoin two entirely different perceptions. In some respects its interesting to read.

I'm only aware of sentient life existing on one Solar System - ours!

As for whatever you feel exists on the Outer Limits of the Solar System, well you tell me?

 

[Stryder]

The OP?

To be fair its unlikely to conjoin two entirely different perceptions. In some respects its interesting to read.

I'm only aware of sentient life existing on one Solar System - ours!

As for whatever you feel exists on the Outer Limits of the Solar System, well you tell me?

Well there is the Kuiper Belt Objects (KBOs) and a questionable number of bodies exist. However you've still circumnavigated the point, the fact that there is a whole universe filled with planets that act out their interplanetary ballet that you are or aren't suggesting has any effect on people. I mean if a planet in our solar system is going to make Mrs Jones of No. 10 Clover Cresent have a happy feeling all day, what of planet Gliese 581 d? I mean if it orbits a little closer at it's time of year perhaps Mrs Jones Happy feeling will be short lived.

Just because the planet is further away in another solar system doesn't suggest it's going to have any less effect than our own in regards to Astrology at least.

 

[Atom]

The Cosmic Ballet isn't of much interest to the viewer stationed several miles from the stage. Ideally you'd view a well lit stage, sittiing comfortably in a balcony seat with a chilled bottle of Chablis rather than from a traffic jam stuck on the outside of town in the debris of rocks laid down by Mr. Kuiper.

 

[Stryder]

... However you've still circumnavigated the point...

There is more than just a single solar system in the universe, why should people listen to astrology that only deals with the interaction of them?

 

[Atom]

For the same reasons that our Sun is of more importance to us than one on the outer reaches of the Universe.

I know that scientists are keen to propogate the idea that the Universe is teeming with life and that there are lots of 'Parallel Universes' but most of these theories make Astrology seem comparitively plausible in comparison.

 

[Stryder]

For the same reasons that our Sun is of more importance to us than one on the outer reaches of the Universe.

Okay so now you are suggesting Astrology is linked to the radiation emanating from our sun? I mean the suns importance is pretty much it's radiation, without it we'd just be a frozen planetoid devoid of life (unless of course that obstacle is overcome).

I know that scientists are keen to propogate the idea that the Universe is teeming with life and that there are lots of 'Parallel Universes' but most of these theories make Astrology seem comparitively plausible in comparison.

Untrue, for the most part theories into 'Parallel Universe' really surrounded Quantum Mechanics since it gave something for people to visualise while trying to conceive paradoxical wave-functions. The problem is however there are two types of theorist into such things, one is the Scientific kind that are attempting to forwards 'Science' while the other kind is more into the imagination with 'Science Fiction'. You then have those that fall into the middle, that take 'Science Fiction' as fact and incorporate their take on paragraphs of 'Science' to develop 'Pseudoscience'.

Multiworlds and other such theories are just that... 'Theories'. They might one day be found to be of use in actual Mechanics however they are far more useful than Astrology that has only ever added naming convention to Astronomy.

(I would suggest Astrology came first, with it's primitive magical misunderstanding of the universe, then Astronomy the study of the stars themselves with Cosmology soon to follow.)

However it still doesn't suggest that Astrology holds any weight over the Universe and all those that reside in it since it is only based on the outcome of one solar system.

 

[Atom]

Its a bizarre point that you are making but hey..10/10 for originality. Its not one I've ever come across before.

What you term as the 'Cosmic Ballet' can only be performed in our own Solar system. I'm totally mystified why you feel some other Solar System should be used.

Why?

Should we take more note of the movements of some far off Moon rather than our own?

 

[Atom]

< Untrue >

Whats untrue?

Surely most scientists feel that there is Extra-terrestial life out there in the Universe?

To use their argument, we are nothing special so therefore if we exist there must by definition be far more advanced life in the Universe?

 

[(Q)]

Surely most scientists feel that there is Extra-terrestial life out there in the Universe?

To use their argument, we are nothing special so therefore if we exist there must by definition be far more advanced life in the Universe?

No, you are jumping to that conclusion. The conclusion is that there is a very high probability that there is other life in the universe. That life could be simple bacteria.

 

[Atom]

SETI is wasting billions on contacting...bacteria?

Vair odd.

 

[(Q)]

SETI is wasting billions on contacting...bacteria?

Vair odd.

Where you get that notion is beyond me??? :shrug:

SETI is looking for intelligent life.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/sah_about.php

 

[Atom]

Looking in the wrong places presumably.

 

[(Q)]

Looking in the wrong places presumably.

Perhaps you could point them in the right direction using astrology as your guide?

 

[Stryder]

Its a bizarre point that you are making but hey..10/10 for originality. Its not one I've ever come across before.

What you term as the 'Cosmic Ballet' can only be performed in our own Solar system. I'm totally mystified why you feel some other Solar System should be used.

Why?

Should we take more note of the movements of some far off Moon rather than our own?

It's not that strange a point, it's like trying to suggest a humble desktop calculator can compute all the decimal places of pi. The calculator is obviously finite in build and it's actual built to round off to a certain decimal place because of it's finite design (The screen has a fixed amount of numbers it can display). However beyond that rounding there is still infinite numbers to be read in ever greater detail.

Now you could use the calculators output in a mathematical sum but it's accuracy is far depleted in comparison to more accurate outputs which consist of further iterations of decimal place.

In fact comparing the two sum's you will find the disparity grows with each iteration of decimal place. It's somewhat similar to a 'Butterfly Effect', in fact very close to an example that you'll find in the book 'Chaos' by James Gleick. I believe the reference is in regard to research done into predicting weather patterns and how such predictions were greatly altered by the depths of the decimal placing. (Rounding is a no-no in regards to precision.)

What I am suggesting is yes our planets output gravity at a higher level based upon our proximity, however this doesn't mean that we aren't effected by gravity from other planets in other solar systems the effect however is of course very, very, very minimal. However the shear number of 'Minimal' solar systems in the whole universe must account for something?!?

In fact aren't we surrounded by all these Stars in every conceivable direction.

 

[Stryder]

< Untrue >

Whats untrue?

Surely most scientists feel that there is Extra-terrestial life out there in the Universe?

To use their argument, we are nothing special so therefore if we exist there must by definition be far more advanced life in the Universe?

Well on a tangent you can suggest to those people that would like to make an alien deity. (The creationist aspect)

"If the choice was given someone to make the universe and all that reside in it, why would they make some alien species and not themselves?"

I guess what I'm saying here is Humankind for the most part contains a very Egocentric base where most things are centered around us. If the same could be said about any 'aliens', then we would not exist, they would instead.

You could then further this by saying that perhaps you wouldn't want a completely barren universe, that perhaps you'd want neighbours and thus the creation of other species is born.. (End creationalistic snipet)


However you could be a firm believe that the universe was naturally induced and that no being(s) were involved in it's creation, which would make us all one very big accident. Does it rule out life elsewhere in the universe? Well you just can't say... Chaos/Entropy is pretty funny about that.

However there are ways to force events to undermine the need to have predictions, I'm not going to go into details, but I can suggest we aren't alone in the universe (and no I haven't met or spoken to any aliens ).

 

[Atom]

It's not that strange a point, it's like trying to suggest a humble desktop calculator can compute all the decimal places of pi. The calculator is obviously finite in build and it's actual built to round off to a certain decimal place because of it's finite design (The screen has a fixed amount of numbers it can display). However beyond that rounding there is still infinite numbers to be read in ever greater detail.

Now you could use the calculators output in a mathematical sum but it's accuracy is far depleted in comparison to more accurate outputs which consist of further iterations of decimal place.

In fact comparing the two sum's you will find the disparity grows with each iteration of decimal place. It's somewhat similar to a 'Butterfly Effect', in fact very close to an example that you'll find in the book 'Chaos' by James Gleick. I believe the reference is in regard to research done into predicting weather patterns and how such predictions were greatly altered by the depths of the decimal placing. (Rounding is a no-no in regards to precision.)

What I am suggesting is yes our planets output gravity at a higher level based upon our proximity, however this doesn't mean that we aren't effected by gravity from other planets in other solar systems the effect however is of course very, very, very minimal.

As I said though..gravity isn't an explanation. Usually its used by those rare men Scientists who believe in astrology or at least study it so its hardly surp[rising that they take great pains to explain it by using what is currently explained by science.

Prof. Percy Seymour is the main culprit here.

 

[Enmos]

As I said though..gravity isn't an explanation. Usually its used by those rare men Scientists who believe in astrology or at least study it so its hardly surp[rising that they take great pains to explain it by using what is currently explained by science.

Prof. Percy Seymour is the main culprit here.

If gravity isnt an explanation, what is ? What other effects could the planets have on us ?

 

[(Q)]

As I said though..gravity isn't an explanation. Usually its used by those rare men Scientists who believe in astrology or at least study it so its hardly surp[rising that they take great pains to explain it by using what is currently explained by science.

Prof. Percy Seymour is the main culprit here.

You can't make that claim considering you have no idea how astrology works.

 

[Atom]

Yes I do.

It works by tiny little angels moving thee little stars and making intricate patterns in thee sky, Q.

 

[Atom]

If gravity isnt an explanation, what is ? What other effects could the planets have on us ?

As some lyricist once wrote..we are all made of the same stuff...stardust.