Islam & Science

[spidergoat]

It seems that you're mis-interpreting it spidergoat.

When smoke cooled and coalesced to form our planet, it was initially a molten globe. As it cooled further crests of solid formed and grew just as cream does atop milk on cooling. Steam condensed and formed ocean around it. The single gigantic super continent cracked, broke up and went adrift and thus formed the present continents (Fig.1). They even collided with each other and thus Lemuria Continent was drowned as did other continents partially. The movements of ‘tectonic plates’ gave rise to geological ‘faults’ and mountain ranges. Mountains were also formed through certain other processes like volcanic action.

The super-earthquakes that arose out of tectonic movements decreased drastically in terms of frequency and severity. Thus the crust was stabilized so as to allow life to appear and thrive. Further divisions and collisions of continents practically stopped. So says modern geology. What does Qur’an say?

“Have We not made the earth an expanse, and the high hills bulwarks?” [Naba : 6,7; see also Nahl : 15, Luqman : 10]

“And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it should quake with them (i.e. ‘every living thing’)...” [Anbiya : 31]

But it can hardly be said that the geological plates are locked fast in place. Though lessened a great deal the remnant minimal swaying and rocking of landmasses still persist, but gently by geological scale. So God mentions:

“..(God is the One) Who has made for you the earth like a cradle...” [Ta Ha : 53]

The regions other than mountains are fairly flat and great water courses and grand trunk routes formed on land. Passes and hill routes formed in mountainous regions. These all enable human societies in later ages to seek nature’s bounties, to spread out and to communicate with each other. Claims Qur’an : “And Allah hath made the earth a wide expanse for ye that ye may thread the valleyways thereof.” [Noah : 19. 20 Also see Nahl : 15, Ta Ha : 53]

The mountains were not only stabilizers of earth but also produce wealth. Before forests formed on level ground mountains were the precipitators of good water as rain.

“He placed therein firm hills rising above it and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance....” [Ha Meem Sajdah:10]

“And after that He spread the earth. And produced there from the water thereof and the pasture thereof. And He made fast the hills.” [Naziat:30-33. Also seehariat:48, Ghashia: 19,20]

All the scientifically accurate statements were made by you in your interpretation, not in the original text. The original text is poetic description of what people saw of the earth at that time.

 

[KhalidIbnWaleed]

Shalom aleikum,

OK, so the Quran is a work of non-literal poetry, I can accept that, why can't you? Science is qualitatively different than non-literal poetry.

Firstly, The Qu'ran is not an scientific book but an book full of Signs.

There is nothing in this statement that couldn't have been known at the time by any observer, especially people that deal with animal births all the time (sheep and goat herders, etc...)

Whatever you say, people do not come from clay (silica), and the embryo is NOT a clot of blood, even though it might resemble one, this is scientifically untrue, and a great example of scientific error in the Quran.

That is a big allegation you got there spidergoat. Perhaps this article will enlight you further

http://www.quranicstudies.com/article83.html

 

[KhalidIbnWaleed]

All the scientifically accurate statements were made by you in your interpretation, not in the original text. The original text is poetic description of what people saw of the earth at that time.

No, that is were you're wrong. Those interpretations aren't made by me. They're made by the scholars and scientists --both muslim and non-muslims

 

[Lemming3k]

But even the disbelievers are aware of what Allah (God) is about which you seems to be lacking.

I explained it, there was no wrong information, god is all knowing and therefore responsible, there is no lack of understanding on my part, if you wish to make the claim god is loving please do, but there is evidence contradictory to it, also i am aware a true god would be unknowable, so anything attributed to him is a guess, such as views of what he can and cant do, what he knows etc.

I pointed out that Adam and Eve were created in Heaven. Furthermore, you implied that you cannot create men from dust.
I said
"All the elements present in the human body (i.e. the constituent elements of the human body), are all present in the earth in small or great quantities."
Does that indicates that I was refering to "earthly" soil?

Yes i implied it, it has never been scientifically observed, and at our current technology level it is unlikely it can be done, and if the elements required to make a man are present on earth, and the man is made elsewhere the element must be present their too, which means you are claiming certain elements to exist in heaven, unless you suggest they are created with different elements, in which case i ask what elements?

It seems that you're not knowledgeable about incest and thus I won't reply on that comment.

And i suppose your an expert? And yes we are all related if we originally came from the same two people, we are from the same family tree, so we would in fact not be related to apes at all, yet share 99% of their DNA, please explain, and also please explain what adam and eve looked like as we can trace human evolution back quite a way.

 

[spidergoat]

No, that is were you're wrong. Those interpretations aren't made by me. They're made by the scholars and scientists --both muslim and non-muslims

Excuse me then, all the scientifically accurate statements were made in the interpretation, not in the original text.

 

[spidergoat]

Firstly, The Qu'ran is not an scientific book but an book full of signs.

You are being very gracious to admit this, but I still think you are not convinced about your original argument, since you then refer me to some Islamic creative interpretation experts.

That is a big allegation you got there spidergoat. Perhaps this article will enlight you further

Your allegations were equally big, that the Quran reveals scientific truth that Mohammed could not have known. How about responding yourself, are you incapable of independant reasoning (ijtihad)?

 

[KhalidIbnWaleed]

I explained it, there was no wrong information, god is all knowing and therefore responsible, there is no lack of understanding on my part, if you wish to make the claim god is loving please do, but there is evidence contradictory to it, also i am aware a true god would be unknowable, so anything attributed to him is a guess, such as views of what he can and cant do, what he knows etc.

Exactly, then why are you questionin' His abilities?

Yes i implied it, it has never been scientifically observed, and at our current technology level it is unlikely it can be done, and if the elements required to make a man are present on earth, and the man is made elsewhere the element must be present their too, which means you are claiming certain elements to exist in heaven, unless you suggest they are created with different elements, in which case i ask what elements?

The major constituent elements of the human body are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen. Furthermore, you're twisting my words.

Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from clay:

Surah 38 Verse 71

The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

Does that indicate that he was created from eartly DUST? What we observe as earthly dust is not heavenly dust.

http://www.quranicstudies.com/article83.html

And i suppose your an expert? And yes we are all related if we originally came from the same two people, we are from the same family tree, so we would in fact not be related to apes at all, yet share 99% of their DNA, please explain, and also please explain what adam and eve looked like as we can trace human evolution back quite a way.

No, I'm not an expert, however, I do possess sufficient knowledge about incest, plus you're changing the argument and are directing to evolution. Evolution will remain an theory and I'm not going to have an discourse about that matter.

We're discussing scientific facts in the Qu'ran and please stick to it.

 

[KhalidIbnWaleed]

Excuse me then, all the scientifically accurate statements were made in the interpretation, not in the original text.

Peace

if I say

We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily,
it is We who are steadily expanding it.

Does that mean that the universe is expanding it or something different?

 

[KhalidIbnWaleed]

You are being very gracious to admit this, but I still think you are not convinced about your original argument, since you then refer me to some Islamic creative interpretation experts.

The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science.

Oh, really, which Islamic "creative" interpretation experts are you refering to? Didn't I stated a few posts back that "non-muslim" scholars/scientists are researching it? Shall I list a few names?

Your allegations were equally big, that the Quran reveals scientific truth that Mohammed could not have known. How about responding yourself, are you incapable of independant reasoning (ijtihad)?

What about, I verify before I 'accknowledge' it. Moreover, I fluently speak the arabic language and verify every verse that speaks of "science"

But you ,however, quote so-called contradictions from anti-islamic sites. For example, the "Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom." [Al-Kahf (18:90)]. verse

 

[7x7]

Please guys slow down, and do not turn this thread into other subjects...

please slow down, ...............2 pages in couple of hours.....

 

[spidergoat]

Peace

if I say

We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily,
it is We who are steadily expanding it.

Does that mean that the universe is expanding it or something different?

It sounds like God is expanding the afterlife in order to accommodate new souls. It's poetic, right? Do you think the universe IS expanding? That is by no means certain. The consensus among scientists is that the universe is expanding, but if you accept this, you must accept the scientific method that was used to determine this. If you do accept the scientific method, you should also accept the scientific consensus about evolution... I don't think you really believe in science. You believe in such facts that support your original thesis, which is an inherently unscientific method.

Oh, really, which Islamic "creative" interpretation experts are you refering to?

Keith L. Moore

Didn't I stated a few posts back that "non-muslim" scholars/scientists are researching it? Shall I list a few names?

Sure, go ahead.

 

[KhalidIbnWaleed]

It sounds like God is expanding the afterlife in order to accommodate new souls. It's poetic, right? Do you think the universe IS expanding? That is by no means certain. The consensus among scientists is that the universe is expanding, but if you accept this, you must accept the scientific method that was used to determine this. If you do accept the scientific method, you should also accept the scientific consensus about evolution... I don't think you really believe in science. You believe in such facts that support your original thesis, which is an inherently unscientific method.

Heaven doesn't stand for the "after-life". That's the typical assumption of someone who has never read the Qu'ran -ergo why the Scholars interpret it.
It stands for the Universe. Furthermore, the expanding of the universe is not an opinion but an fact. Perhaps you should research astronomy.

Keith L. Moore

Keith L. Moore is NOT a Muslim.

Sure, go ahead.

To name a few:
Dr. G.C. Goeringer
Dr. T.V.N. Persaud
Keith L. Moore
Prof. Marshall Johnson
Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson
etc. etc.

 

[786]

It sounds like God is expanding the afterlife in order to accommodate new souls. It's poetic, right? Do you think the universe IS expanding? That is by no means certain. The consensus among scientists is that the universe is expanding, but if you accept this, you must accept the scientific method that was used to determine this. If you do accept the scientific method, you should also accept the scientific consensus about evolution... I don't think you really believe in science. You believe in such facts that support your original thesis, which is an inherently unscientific method.


Keith L. Moore

Sure, go ahead.

Evolution is no where even close to being a fact. Whereas the expansion of the universe is very very close to be a fact.

I guess you believe in Theory of Evolution. I like you to watch this video. It shows how False the Theory of Evolution really is. It also shows the difficulties of the theory which were mentioned by Charles Darwin in his book "Origin of Species". Those difficulties are now proven, thus shattering his theory. But I don't want you to take my word for it. I urge you to watch this video, it will only gain your knowledge. You will only gain, and you won't lose anything.

http://66.98.204.66/download/f4c0c05e0c379132de95665ef11bfedb/collapse_of_darwinism_full.mpg

 

[7x7]

STOP IT PLEASE..........

spidergoat , this thread is not for you...you are not making any valid argument..repating yourself over and over ..

this thread is not about after live and evalution theory.............

STOP IT PLEASE...

 

[786]

STOP IT PLEASE..........

spidergoat , this thread is not for you...you are not making any valid argument..repating yourself over and over ..

this thread is not about after live and evalution theory.............

STOP IT PLEASE...

Man I see your point. But you must prove to them what they see wrong. If someone see something wrong in those miracles, then it is our duty to show them what they are misunderstanding.

 

[7x7]

we want a a nice argument, not a fight..please.......stop it

 

[786]

we want a a nice argument, not a fight..please.......stop it

All right man. But this is not a fight, it really is an argument. But it's your thread so I'll stop. Keep on going with your miracles. I'll provide some later.

 

[spidergoat]

Evolution is no where even close to being a fact. Whereas the expansion of the universe is very very close to be a fact.

I think you will find equal support for both evolution, and expansion of the universe among the scientific community.

we want a a nice argument, not a fight..please.......stop it

I thought I was being nice.

STOP IT PLEASE..........

spidergoat , this thread is not for you...you are not making any valid argument..repating yourself over and over ..

this thread is not about after live and evalution theory.............

STOP IT PLEASE...

No valid argument? Is this how you debate? This thread is about science in the Quran. If you want we should concentrate on specific claims about the Quran. The Quran mentions stages of embryonic development, and it seems there actually are stages. We could go from there...

Heaven doesn't stand for the "after-life". That's the typical assumption of someone who has never read the Qu'ran -ergo why the Scholars interpret it.
It stands for the Universe.

You said the language of the Quran is non-literal and poetic, so how do you know this passage refers to the universe and not the heaven of the afterlife? I think the afterlife needs to be expanded often, with all the souls sent there, and the increase in human populations.

But you ,however, quote so-called contradictions from anti-islamic sites.

Why is a rebuttal of Islamic claims always considered anti-islamic? No doubt this is due to the misunderstanding that dissent, debate and disagreement is heresy. Don't you guys ever disagree with other muslims?

 

[surenderer]

Don't you guys ever disagree with other muslims?

[/QUOTE]

You must have missed my debate with Knife on a recent thread ......peace

 

[7x7]

spidergoat ,

you are going far away from the topic,
either you make good argument or you stop it.
if you have any point about what i write, then bring it in, not talking about afterlive and evalution theory...or throwing words without reading the whole text.

if you don't like this thread then do not participate in it. Your first post saying that we copied out book from others...no clue what you are sying ..no evidance..no nothing...

your points about sun rise and sun set is Honestly, Funny....

you made several posts at something , has nothing to do with this thread.

if you have something to say about Quran or you don't undertsant a sentence, then start a new thread and we will replay to you.

thanks

so please stop IT.