Islam & Science
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KhalidIbnWaleed
Registered Member
Lemming3k said:
The problem is my friend, you're refering to the materials on the earth.
Prophet Adam (pbuh) and Eve (May Allah be pleased with her) were never created on earth but in Heaven. Only Christians believe he was created on earth.
Michel , I wonder if you really having good argument like me. I think talking with is based on mind talks not just throwing words here and there like others do? 
I am here to replay at you again….
1-
First we Muslims, do not believe in evolution theory.
Second, what you wrote is not what I meant. I meant Human development varies from animals. There are animals created from eggs, new animals born after month, or 2 or three. There are animals that come underwater, there are animals…etc..
You are referring to DNA, GOT YOU AGAIN….another mistake.
It is the same like you are saying Galen's had knowledge of DNA so he decided to make experiments on animals because they are the same.
The point here, Galen's work was based on Animal , HOW COME Muhammad APPLIED them to human?
I'm sorry, you are wrong
2- Again it is true and Galen never discovered human development on stages, read above (number 1).
And the stages are true; flesh is used to refer to muscles.
I don't have to repeat my self. I made a description of that before.
and for 4th time, you don't know better than DR Moore
Bones then covered.
and for 5th time, you don't know better than DR Moore
3-
I didn't continue the text (my mistake):
This statement is from Surah 23:13. The drop or "nutfah" has been interpreted as the sperm or spermatozoon, but a more meaningful interpretation would be the zygote which divides to form a blastocyst which is implanted in the uterus (a place of rest). This interpretation is supported by another verse in the Qur'an which states that a human being is created from a mixed drop. The zygote forms by the union of a mixture of the sperm and the ovum (The mixed drop).
4-
Yes, it says that.
Read by Dr Moore:
The primordia of the internal ears appear before the beginning of the eyes, and the brain (the site of understanding) differentiates last.
But if you don't beleve me:
Read this:
If Quran mention heaven and hell, is that means we took them from Bible?
2) Connection isn't very strong. Histroy mentions rare stories (1-3 almost) between him and prophet. That why your source couldn't find more than the story of recommendation.
4) no you are wrong.
Again, you generalize things.
You can find similarity between 3 religions Islam, Christianity and Judaism but all the religions.
But WHY?
The answer is: all came from one source and all tells the human to believe in GOD and avoid hell. But we believe that Judaism and Christianity have been altered. SO the similarity is because from same source, the source (God) has his rules and these rules don't change.
I hope I made my self clear.
By Dr. Maurice Bucaille ) post
By Dr. Maurice Bucaille ) post, and honestly I have posted this before I read single word of your post.
Doctor made a good comparison between Bible and Quran and proved that Quran is not copied from any other source.
I am here to replay at you again….
1-
First we Muslims, do not believe in evolution theory.
Second, what you wrote is not what I meant. I meant Human development varies from animals. There are animals created from eggs, new animals born after month, or 2 or three. There are animals that come underwater, there are animals…etc..
You are referring to DNA, GOT YOU AGAIN….another mistake.
It is the same like you are saying Galen's had knowledge of DNA so he decided to make experiments on animals because they are the same.
The point here, Galen's work was based on Animal , HOW COME Muhammad APPLIED them to human?
I'm sorry, you are wrong
2- Again it is true and Galen never discovered human development on stages, read above (number 1).
And the stages are true; flesh is used to refer to muscles.
I don't have to repeat my self. I made a description of that before.
and for 4th time, you don't know better than DR Moore
No one after another but in very close period so you thin they are simultaneously.
Bones then covered.
and for 5th time, you don't know better than DR Moore
3-
I didn't continue the text (my mistake):
This statement is from Surah 23:13. The drop or "nutfah" has been interpreted as the sperm or spermatozoon, but a more meaningful interpretation would be the zygote which divides to form a blastocyst which is implanted in the uterus (a place of rest). This interpretation is supported by another verse in the Qur'an which states that a human being is created from a mixed drop. The zygote forms by the union of a mixture of the sperm and the ovum (The mixed drop).
4-
Yes, it says that.
Read by Dr Moore:
The primordia of the internal ears appear before the beginning of the eyes, and the brain (the site of understanding) differentiates last.
But if you don't beleve me:
Read this:
Arbs knew atom and they called it ZARA, it has nothing to do with Greek.
If Quran mention heaven and hell, is that means we took them from Bible?
1) No, only animals NOT HUMAN.
2) Connection isn't very strong. Histroy mentions rare stories (1-3 almost) between him and prophet. That why your source couldn't find more than the story of recommendation.
4) no you are wrong.
Maybe dose not work in my religion.
Again, you generalize things.
You can find similarity between 3 religions Islam, Christianity and Judaism but all the religions.
But WHY?
The answer is: all came from one source and all tells the human to believe in GOD and avoid hell. But we believe that Judaism and Christianity have been altered. SO the similarity is because from same source, the source (God) has his rules and these rules don't change.
I hope I made my self clear.
I have answered that later in the ( The Bible, The Qur'an and Science
By Dr. Maurice Bucaille ) post
Again this question has been answered in the ( The Bible, The Qur'an and Science
By Dr. Maurice Bucaille ) post, and honestly I have posted this before I read single word of your post.
Doctor made a good comparison between Bible and Quran and proved that Quran is not copied from any other source.
What other materials exist? Heaven has not been proved to exist so you cannot claim properties for any materials that might be there, just like i cant tell you what materials are on the surface of any other planet.
So we all came from those two people? That means they mated, their children mated, then their children mated etc, genetically thats unlikely to work.
KhalidIbnWaleed
Registered Member
Salaam
Brother 7x7, the article I posted perfectly elobrates the difference between what Galen en Aristotle stated and what the Qu'ran states. So you don't have to raise that issue anymore since the author of that article refuted the allegations towards Islam-Science
Wa'salaam
Brother 7x7, the article I posted perfectly elobrates the difference between what Galen en Aristotle stated and what the Qu'ran states. So you don't have to raise that issue anymore
since the author of that article refuted the allegations towards Islam-ScienceWa'salaam
KhalidIbnWaleed
Registered Member
PeaceLemming3k said:
Do you even grasp the concept of God and Heaven? But fair enough.
All the elements present in the human body (i.e. the constituent elements of the human body), are all present in the earth in small or great quantities. This is the scientific explanation for the Quranic verse that says that man was created from dust.
I suppose your refering to "mutation"
Firstly nothing causes mutations in incestual relationships, they just have a tendency to be amplified. If you're a carrier of a rare genetic disease, chances are someone you mate with isn't going to also be one, but a family member just might be, so there's a much higher chance of that disease being expressed. However, if you're going on the story of Adam and Eve, the first two people had to be created in God's image of perfection, so they wouldn't have been created with any genetic defects, so by the time the enhancement of mutations played a role in incest, the family would be too spread out for it to make a difference.
Assaalam-o-Alikum
As Kahlidibnwalid said Muslims don't believe in the Theory of Evolution.
Here is a link to a video that proves that Evolution is just a propaganda, and how false the theory is. I recommed you share it with others who believe in Evolution. The interesting part is that Darwin himself shows us the problems with the theory of Evolution.
http://www.islamicity.com/m/mediadisplay.asp?ref=3126&t=&ForcedWidth=240&ForcedHeight=180&WindowSizeW=406&WindowSizeH=600
And there is no such thing as mutation of one animal into another. A part of Theory of Evolution is Mutation but it is all BS. The video also talks about mutation, and what really does it do.
Peace be unto you
As Kahlidibnwalid said Muslims don't believe in the Theory of Evolution.
Here is a link to a video that proves that Evolution is just a propaganda, and how false the theory is. I recommed you share it with others who believe in Evolution. The interesting part is that Darwin himself shows us the problems with the theory of Evolution.
http://www.islamicity.com/m/mediadisplay.asp?ref=3126&t=&ForcedWidth=240&ForcedHeight=180&WindowSizeW=406&WindowSizeH=600
And there is no such thing as mutation of one animal into another. A part of Theory of Evolution is Mutation but it is all BS. The video also talks about mutation, and what really does it do.
Peace be unto you
If the Quran did indeed describe scientific truth, there would be no need for elaborate explanations. I agree Mohammed did not "write" the Quran, but he was largely responsible for it's creation. It could be he was devinely inspired, which I think you are trying to prove by suggesting it reveals scientific facts that Mohammed could not have known. Ever heard the expression 20/20 hindsight? Sure, we can go back now and find parallels, but this is an exercise in creative writing, as well as creative translation. I don't mean to belittle the Quran at all. In saying it was influenced by earlier sacred texts doesn't make it unworthy, in fact it can be seen as an ernest attempt to adapt successful religions to an Arab world that needed a unifiying metaphor. If you really need an example of scientific error in the Quran, Allah thought that Sun needs a definite rising and setting place for it. Allah considered that our earth is not round but flat.
"Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom." [Al-Kahf (18:90)].
Of course the sun has no rising place.
"Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom." [Al-Kahf (18:90)].
Of course the sun has no rising place.
spidergoat said:
Here the rising and the setting of the sun have nothing to do with the earth's or the sun's rotations, nor does it say that there is a hole in the earth that the sun sets in. In Noble Verses 18:86 and 90, it was talking about the morning and the evening times, and in Noble Verse 20:130, Muslims are commanded to praise and glorify Allah Almighty before dawn and after sun set.
Even today we still use phrases like "sun rise" and "sun set", despite the fact that we know that the earth rotates around the sun. The Noble Verses above do not make any DIRECT claim about the sun rotating around the earth, nor do they suggest that the sun rises from a hole and sets in another hole on earth.
Important Note: Given our advanced astronomical knowledge today, if a person wanted to describe two events where the first one occurred after he saw the sun rise while looking at the big sea at dawn, and the second one occurred after he saw the sun set on the big sea at evening, how different today would he say it from Noble Verses 18:86 and 90?
The weakness that the critics of the Noble Quran and Islam have is that: No where in the Noble Quran do we see any direct scientifically wrong claim about anything in astronomy as we clearly see it in the Bible and the Hindu pagan books in Psalm 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:5, and Rik Veda and Rik Veda 10-173-4 respectively as clearly shown above in the article.
No where in the Noble Quran nor any Saying of our Prophet does it say nonsense like "the earth is set on foundations and it can never move" or "the sun hurries back to where it rises", etc...
The two Easts and two Wests in the Noble Quran:
The following section was taken from http://www.islamic-book-depot.org.uk/bulletins/august_2001.htm
Lord of the two Easts, and Lord of the two Wests.
Which then of the bounties of thy Lord will you deny?
(The Noble Quran, 55:17-18)
In the verse, Lord of the two Easts, and Lord of the two Wests, there is sure evidence that the earth is round because two Easts and two Wests can come about only when the earth is round; for when the sun rises over one region it sets in another, and when it sets in one sphere it rises in another. Thus the actuality of two Easts and two Wests can clearly be seen.
Now let us look at the inner or spiritual world of man. It is an established fact in the physical world that the reason for the rising and setting of the sun is that, in the course of the earth’s revolution, whichever half of the earth faces the sun gets the sunrise and becomes bright. Similarly, the other half of the earth which is turned away from the sun, or which, in a manner of speaking, has its back to the sun, experiences the setting of the sun and its consequent darkness.
The same thing happens in the spiritual world. Any nation that turns its face towards guidance finds that the sun of guidance and progress begins to shed its rays on it, and this is so whether the enlightenment is physical or spiritual. In other words, to whatever kind of education a man directs his attention, the sun of that kind of guidance shines on him.
On the other hand, if a nation turns its face away from guidance it will be enveloped in the darkness of decadence and perdition. Thus, there is one East that pertains to the physical growth and perfection and another East that relates to spiritual advancement and perfection, and these are the two Easts mentioned in the verse above. Similarly, there are two Wests — one pertaining to physical decline and decay and the other to spiritual degradation and deviation from the true path. These conditions overtake nations in turns and this is so because of people’s own deeds.
From another vantage point, we find that today, too, the world is divided into two Easts — a near East and a far East — and two Wests — a near West, referring to Europe, and a far West, meaning America.
In short, these verses tell us that Allah is the complete Lord of both Easts and both Wests. As proof of His physical Providence, His physical sun shines on people in the East as well as those in the West. Similarly, why should His spiritual Providence not allow the Holy Quran, His spiritual sun, to illuminate the nations of the East and the West as well? And why should the East and the West not live under the same spiritual law? This comprises the second East and the second West.
In fact, these verses contain a prophecy that although at this time the sun of the Holy Quran shines on the Eastern nations, yet a time will come when that light will also irradiate the people of the West. But this has a resemblance to the physical system, that is, just as when the physical sun sets on the East it rises in the West, so, too, this spiritual sun of the Holy Quran will rise in the West just when the people of the East turn their backs on the Holy Quran, and because of this abandonment of the Book all kinds of misery and darkness will overtake them. When this happens, this spiritual sun will rise over the Western nations who will then bow their heads before the verities of the Holy Quran and will be illuminated by its splendour. This is the meaning of the prophecy recorded in the Hadith that before the Day of Resurrection the sun shall rise in the West. Thus, there is a remarkable prophecy hidden in this verse that the sun of the Holy Quran which now shines through the grace of the Holy Prophet (sas) in the East will one day illumine the Western world. And why should this not be so when Allah is not only the Lord of both East and West but the Lord of both kinds of Easts and Wests, that is, the physical and the spiritual East and West, and His Providence encompasses the physical as well as the spiritual kingdoms? If the physical sun gives light to both the East and the West, why should the spiritual sun of the Holy Quran not illumine both East and West? Thus, how unjust it is to deny these marvellous bounties of the Almighty!
The following section was taken from http://www.islamic-book-depot.org.uk/bulletins/august_2001.htm
Lord of the two Easts, and Lord of the two Wests.
Which then of the bounties of thy Lord will you deny?
(The Noble Quran, 55:17-18)
In the verse, Lord of the two Easts, and Lord of the two Wests, there is sure evidence that the earth is round because two Easts and two Wests can come about only when the earth is round; for when the sun rises over one region it sets in another, and when it sets in one sphere it rises in another. Thus the actuality of two Easts and two Wests can clearly be seen.
Now let us look at the inner or spiritual world of man. It is an established fact in the physical world that the reason for the rising and setting of the sun is that, in the course of the earth’s revolution, whichever half of the earth faces the sun gets the sunrise and becomes bright. Similarly, the other half of the earth which is turned away from the sun, or which, in a manner of speaking, has its back to the sun, experiences the setting of the sun and its consequent darkness.
The same thing happens in the spiritual world. Any nation that turns its face towards guidance finds that the sun of guidance and progress begins to shed its rays on it, and this is so whether the enlightenment is physical or spiritual. In other words, to whatever kind of education a man directs his attention, the sun of that kind of guidance shines on him.
On the other hand, if a nation turns its face away from guidance it will be enveloped in the darkness of decadence and perdition. Thus, there is one East that pertains to the physical growth and perfection and another East that relates to spiritual advancement and perfection, and these are the two Easts mentioned in the verse above. Similarly, there are two Wests — one pertaining to physical decline and decay and the other to spiritual degradation and deviation from the true path. These conditions overtake nations in turns and this is so because of people’s own deeds.
From another vantage point, we find that today, too, the world is divided into two Easts — a near East and a far East — and two Wests — a near West, referring to Europe, and a far West, meaning America.
In short, these verses tell us that Allah is the complete Lord of both Easts and both Wests. As proof of His physical Providence, His physical sun shines on people in the East as well as those in the West. Similarly, why should His spiritual Providence not allow the Holy Quran, His spiritual sun, to illuminate the nations of the East and the West as well? And why should the East and the West not live under the same spiritual law? This comprises the second East and the second West.
In fact, these verses contain a prophecy that although at this time the sun of the Holy Quran shines on the Eastern nations, yet a time will come when that light will also irradiate the people of the West. But this has a resemblance to the physical system, that is, just as when the physical sun sets on the East it rises in the West, so, too, this spiritual sun of the Holy Quran will rise in the West just when the people of the East turn their backs on the Holy Quran, and because of this abandonment of the Book all kinds of misery and darkness will overtake them. When this happens, this spiritual sun will rise over the Western nations who will then bow their heads before the verities of the Holy Quran and will be illuminated by its splendour. This is the meaning of the prophecy recorded in the Hadith that before the Day of Resurrection the sun shall rise in the West. Thus, there is a remarkable prophecy hidden in this verse that the sun of the Holy Quran which now shines through the grace of the Holy Prophet (sas) in the East will one day illumine the Western world. And why should this not be so when Allah is not only the Lord of both East and West but the Lord of both kinds of Easts and Wests, that is, the physical and the spiritual East and West, and His Providence encompasses the physical as well as the spiritual kingdoms? If the physical sun gives light to both the East and the West, why should the spiritual sun of the Holy Quran not illumine both East and West? Thus, how unjust it is to deny these marvellous bounties of the Almighty!
The Quran
18. al-Kahf: The Cave
86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
So, Allah told Mohammed that the sun sets in a muddy spring? Right.
You know, the problem is that Muslims these days tend to take everything too literally. These ancient stories have their place, but they do not represent scientific truth.
18. al-Kahf: The Cave
86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
So, Allah told Mohammed that the sun sets in a muddy spring? Right.
You know, the problem is that Muslims these days tend to take everything too literally. These ancient stories have their place, but they do not represent scientific truth.
spidergoat said:
As I said before, I guess you didn't understand. Let me try to explain this to you like this.
"Hey dude the sun is setting behind that mountain."
"Hey man the sun is setting in the ocean"
Are these pharses true. Yes or No. Well the answer is yes. I have seen the sun setting behind a mountain. Haven't you. This doesn't mean that the Sun sets there. It is what you see.
Zul Qurnain, there verse you presented, saw the sun setting in a muddy spring. This is what he saw.
If you still don't get it, then go take an English class.
KhalidIbnWaleed
Registered Member
spidergoat said:
Peace with you spidergoat
What you stated above is an common Christian objection to the verse by saying it's an "scientific contradiction"
http://bismikaallahuma.org/Quran/Commentary/q18-86.htm
rebuked it
Yes, we can say the sun is setting behind the mountain, which implies that it is setting in a far off place, but this verse actually states he reached that place, and you can never reach the place where the sun sets.
31 And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them,...
Dude, these statements are almost identical! Give it a rest, your book is no better that other sacred texts from that time period in terms of scientific accuracy.
21. al-Anbiya': The Prophets
31 And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them,...
Dude, these statements are almost identical! Give it a rest, your book is no better that other sacred texts from that time period in terms of scientific accuracy.
KhalidIbnWaleed
Registered Member
spidergoat said:
I already posted the link that refutes it
http://bismikaallahuma.org/Quran/Commentary/q18-86.htm
But it seems you're ignoring it.
It seems that you're mis-interpreting it spidergoat.
When smoke cooled and coalesced to form our planet, it was initially a molten globe. As it cooled further crests of solid formed and grew just as cream does atop milk on cooling. Steam condensed and formed ocean around it. The single gigantic super continent cracked, broke up and went adrift and thus formed the present continents (Fig.1). They even collided with each other and thus Lemuria Continent was drowned as did other continents partially. The movements of ‘tectonic plates’ gave rise to geological ‘faults’ and mountain ranges. Mountains were also formed through certain other processes like volcanic action.
The super-earthquakes that arose out of tectonic movements decreased drastically in terms of frequency and severity. Thus the crust was stabilized so as to allow life to appear and thrive. Further divisions and collisions of continents practically stopped. So says modern geology. What does Qur’an say?
“Have We not made the earth an expanse, and the high hills bulwarks?” [Naba : 6,7; see also Nahl : 15, Luqman : 10]
“And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it should quake with them (i.e. ‘every living thing’)...” [Anbiya : 31]
But it can hardly be said that the geological plates are locked fast in place. Though lessened a great deal the remnant minimal swaying and rocking of landmasses still persist, but gently by geological scale. So God mentions:
“..(God is the One) Who has made for you the earth like a cradle...” [Ta Ha : 53]
The regions other than mountains are fairly flat and great water courses and grand trunk routes formed on land. Passes and hill routes formed in mountainous regions. These all enable human societies in later ages to seek nature’s bounties, to spread out and to communicate with each other. Claims Qur’an : “And Allah hath made the earth a wide expanse for ye that ye may thread the valleyways thereof.” [Noah : 19. 20 Also see Nahl : 15, Ta Ha : 53]
The mountains were not only stabilizers of earth but also produce wealth. Before forests formed on level ground mountains were the precipitators of good water as rain.
“He placed therein firm hills rising above it and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance....” [Ha Meem Sajdah:10]
“And after that He spread the earth. And produced there from the water thereof and the pasture thereof. And He made fast the hills.” [Naziat:30-33. Also see
hariat:48, Ghashia: 19,20] At least you admit to them only being a concept and not factual, lets start with heaven, it has no proof it exists but is an eternal resting place for people that believe and are good, i'd say that sums it up, now god, an infinite being that knows everything and created everything, and is therefore responsible for everything, including miss understandings in the scipture thats supposedly about him and every flaw known to man, if he exists he is the root cause to everything, and fails to intervene in anything bad, yes i understand the concept of god.
You said earlier adam and eve werent created from materials on earth, im still wondering what materials they were created with.
So long as your happy screwing your distant cousins, and if we all came from adam and eve then our DNA would be a lot more similar.
So please explain why we have such similar DNA to apes?
Evolution is a gradual process where change occurs, like the millions of years it took humans to evolve from apes, mutation is a sudden change.
Next you'll be telling us the world is only 10,000 years old.
Lemming3k said:
I think you believe in the Theory of Evolution. I recommend you watch this video. You don't have to download it so that is a good thing.
You need real player to view it.
http://66.98.204.66/download/f4c0c05e0c379132de95665ef11bfedb/collapse_of_darwinism_full.mpg
Shalom aleikum,
Whatever you say, people do not come from clay (silica), and the embryo is NOT a clot of blood, even though it might resemble one, this is scientifically untrue, and a great example of scientific error in the Quran.
OK, so the Quran is a work of non-literal poetry, I can accept that, why can't you? Science is qualitatively different than non-literal poetry.KhalidIbnWaleed said:
There is nothing in this statement that couldn't have been known at the time by any observer, especially people that deal with animal births all the time (sheep and goat herders, etc...)
Whatever you say, people do not come from clay (silica), and the embryo is NOT a clot of blood, even though it might resemble one, this is scientifically untrue, and a great example of scientific error in the Quran.
KhalidIbnWaleed
Registered Member
You're mis-interpreting.Lemming3k said:
God exist and is factual to ME but to the disbelievers -you-, it's a concept. But even the disbelievers are aware of what Allah (God) is about which you seems to be lacking. It seems that you observed the wrong information about God.
I pointed out that Adam and Eve were created in Heaven. Furthermore, you implied that you cannot create men from dust.
I said
"All the elements present in the human body (i.e. the constituent elements of the human body), are all present in the earth in small or great quantities."
Does that indicates that I was refering to "earthly" soil?
It seems that you're not knowledgeable about incest and thus I won't reply on that comment.