Islam & Science

Igor said:
1- First, the Sun and the other stars in its vicinity partake of the general rotation of the galaxy (the Milky Way Galaxy rotates once about every 225 million years).”

2-The sun is going Round the milkyway!! It never reaches some end point!
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1- yes It rotates around the milkey way, But it says all our solar system is moving, so thet question is milkey way is included in the solar system?

2- they never said it will not reach and end point. They sayas we are going to solar apex point. Nothing about rotating or coming back.

Give reliable information. Not based of what you think.


Igor said:
I’ll believe him when he does, but not rumours from websites. Anyway, why would he write a book saying that the Quran must be from God but then not be prepared to say he has converted?
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This is weird thing, why then you believed un-trusted website (the one you brought the quote from "King Saud" thing". The information you posted "that he has never converted to islam" from that website based on a "imaginary" friend from tunisa?

You should have not posted those texts honestly, since it not based on evident (maybe rumors)

Which verse?
Everybody who has ever looked up to the night sky knows everything in the heavens moves. They can see it.
The sun crosses the sky, the moon crosses the sky and all the stars cross the sky every night.
It’s all down to the earths rotation.
If you wish to prove this verse has any other meaning then you have to explain why it cannot simply be referring to this. Does it say the earth also moves?
Acutally the pharse says that all moving in ORIBITS, not just moving.
Back to Dr. Bucaille book:

Part of the Orbit text:
--sura 21, verse 33:
"(God is) the One Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion."

--sura 36, verse 40:
"The sun must not catch up the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion."

Here an essential fact is clearly stated: the existence of the Sun's and Moon's orbits, plus a reference is made to the travelling of these bodies in space with their own motion.
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you can go back, couple of pages, for a link.


About the different translations, I have answered that previously many times….beside i'm Arabic and I know only one meaning for Mustakar which is settle place.
The different translations do not mean that the Quran is wrong. Beside I don't know how these translations took place and the mother language for the translators. What did they use to translate, own understanding? Dictionaries? What?
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PATH said:
Oh for heavens sake 7x7 that is not the question the solar apex is NOT MENTIONED I could just as easily say that "settled place" means, a field, a swamp, a village, a hill, a mountain all of those could be described as settled places. Ambiguity is the Bucaille's strongest weapon because the quran DOESN'T MENTION A SINGLE CONCRETE THING THAT HE IS CLAIMING if it does FIND IT.
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Again Path, you are following the same rhythm. [The words meaning could be anything….]
So you don't believe they are true but you also don't have proves if they are wrong.

[All these are just coincidence, our interpolation, etc….]

Wired thing, imagine that the sun dose not move, and Muhammad wrote that phrase (of course he did not write any part of Quran) based on sunset and sunrise. What the situation could be?

The phrase is completely wrong. But it is not…There is sun and there is point going to?
So what are the chances that this could be true?
Give me another response, you have almost used this response for all.
 
Michale said:
YES They are in “an” order!

Yes the forebrain is developing after Day 26! As a matter of fact is developing after day 18 too and after day 10765as well ! You’ll notice the first two start with “The primorida of the” and the third starts with “The forebrain is developing”.

They’re sneaky again huh?

Again if the third sentence was to remain consistent it should start: The primordia of the brain are present at day 18 after fertilization.
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so if one part of forbrain developed, that dosen't mean it works (the understanding). It is the same when you developed the car body without developing the engine.
Nothing changed…..so there is a chance that the phrase is correct?

Fetus at womb hear first
Fetus dream and see
Fetus realize and think and distinguish

I take these words, I don't care about what nerve developed first, since it is not be working first.
 
Mal said:
Quran dosen't a single mantion that the sun going round the earth but state...

By the Sun and its brightness
And by the moon when it imitates it (i.e. reflects that brightness)
And by the day which reveals it.
By the night which conceals it." (Koran 91:1-4)

The koran not only mantion that the moon light is reflected light from the sun but it also mantion that the day that reveals the sun and the night that conceals the sun not that the sun revels it self by the day and etc...
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I didn't say they are mentioned in Quran. The sun rise from west is mentioned by prophet among many signs for judgment day. An 1400 years old Hadith. Our sources as Muslim are not only the Quran, we have the Hadith (prophet words)
These are among (if not the biggest) the biggest sign for judgment day, and as I wrote before it is the deadline. ALL the world would like to convert to islam after it BUT it is not going to be accepted. Simply a deadline.
 
Cassie Calibre said:
and is it true that el nino and la nina is slowing earth's rotation ? if it's true then.. could it be one day.. earth's rotation will be very slow and day equals to week.. month.. even year.. and after that.. maybe earth will be turning backward.. from east to west.. so sunrise will be from west.. not east *sorry bad English
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We, muslims, don't have a doubt that it is going to happen. Remember it is the deadline.

Only a prophet could say something like this, again Muhammad is a prophet, Muhammad did not write quran.
 
The Honey

in Quran:

There issues From within their bodies A drink of varying colours, Wherein is healing for men. [Al-Quraan 16:69]

We are now aware that honey has a healing property and also a mild antiseptic property. The Russians used honey to cover their wounds in World War II. The wound would retain moisture and would leave very little scar tissue. Due to the density of honey, no fungus or bacteria would grow in the wound. A person suffering from an allergy of a particular plant may be given honey from that plant so that the person develops resistance to that allergy. Honey is rich in fructose and vitamin K. Thus the knowledge contained in the Quraan regarding honey, its origin and properties, was far ahead of the time it was revealed.


source = click me
 
7x7 said:
I didn't say they are mentioned in Quran. The sun rise from west is mentioned by prophet among many signs for judgment day. An 1400 years old Hadith. Our sources as Muslim are not only the Quran, we have the Hadith (prophet words)
These are among (if not the biggest) the biggest sign for judgment day, and as I wrote before it is the deadline. ALL the world would like to convert to islam after it BUT it is not going to be accepted. Simply a deadline.
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I know and i was replying to Igor Trip.
 
7x7 said:
1- yes It rotates around the milkey way, But it says all our solar system is moving, so thet question is milkey way is included in the solar system?

2- they never said it will not reach and end point. They sayas we are going to solar apex point. Nothing about rotating or coming back.
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They don’t say it will reach an end point and then stop. Don’t you think they would say if the world was going to come to a halt?

Another link. Note the phrase “to a direction called "Solar Apex,"”. It does not say “point” or that we will stop when we get there.

http://www.seds.org/messier/more/mw.html

Our Sun, together with the whole Solar System, is orbiting the Galactic Center at the distance given, on a nearly circular orbit. We are moving at about 250 km/sec, and need about 220 million years to complete one orbit (so the Solar System has orbited the Galactic Center about 20 to 21 times since its formation about 4.6 billion years ago).

In addition to the overall Galactic Rotation, the solar system is moving between the neighboring stars (peculiar motion) at a velocity of about 20 km/s, to a direction called "Solar Apex," at the approximate position RA=18:01, Dec=+26 (2000.0); this motion has been discovered by William Herschel in 1783.

Considering the sense of rotation, the Galaxy, at the Sun's position, is rotating toward the direction of Right Ascension 21:12.0, Declination +48:19. This shows that it rotates "backward" in the Galactic coordinate system, i.e. the Galactic North Pole is actually a physical South Pole with respect to galactic rotation (defined by the direction of the angular momentum vector).
This is weird thing, why then you believed un-trusted website (the one you brought the quote from "King Saud" thing". The information you posted "that he has never converted to islam" from that website based on a "imaginary" friend from tunisa?

You should have not posted those texts honestly, since it not based on evident (maybe rumors)
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I was presuming that it must be right or someone would have altered it. If wrong I apologise.

Acutally the pharse says that all moving in ORIBITS, not just moving.
Back to Dr. Bucaille book:
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Yes I know they are all moving in orbits. Everybody knows they are all moving in orbits. We can all see this simply by watching the sky.
It’s due to the earths rotation!
Each night all the stars, the planets and the moon appear to rotate over us.

What you have to prove is that the Quran is not referring to this simple observation.
About the different translations, I have answered that previously many times….beside i'm Arabic and I know only one meaning for Mustakar which is settle place.
The different translations do not mean that the Quran is wrong. Beside I don't know how these translations took place and the mother language for the translators. What did they use to translate, own understanding? Dictionaries? What?
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I am aware of the problem of translations but I have to rely on them. That’s why I used three from this site;

http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

They are widely used by Muslims.


Question; Just how settled is a settled place?
 
Cassie Calibre said:
and is it true that el nino and la nina is slowing earth's rotation ? if it's true then.. could it be one day.. earth's rotation will be very slow and day equals to week.. month.. even year.. and after that.. maybe earth will be turning backward.. from east to west.. so sunrise will be from west.. not east *sorry bad english :D *
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The el nino effect is only temporary.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlkop/longday.html


But he earth is slowing due to the moon.

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/tides.html
 
oh .. one more thing.. wanna ask about isra mi'raj.. many people define this phenomena as a spiritual incidence.. but i think it can be define scientificly..
 
Cassie Calibre said:
oh i see.. but it's true rite ? earth is slowing down ? then Qur'an already predict the process.. in logic..
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sorry darling not in logic, no religion is logical.
religious science is an oxymoron.
 
then how do you respon this thread :p

Islam and Science ? God indeed act in mysterious way.. and there's no making sense of it.. but.. if you may think.. of it.. it is logic..

Damn.. hard to explain this.. i'm so sorry .. :( can't be your partner to discuss.. i have to learn more.. i hope y'all help me to learn ^^
 
Cassie Calibre said:
oh i see.. but it's true rite ? earth is slowing down ? then Qur'an already predict the process.. in logic..
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From the link I provided.

“However, the Earth's rotation is decelerating at a rate of about 0.002 seconds per day per century. It's been about a century since the atomic clocks' standard time, so the Earth is slowing relative to an atomic clock by about 0.002 seconds per day, or about 0.7 seconds per year.”

So I don’t think we need worry about Judgement day for quite a while yet.
 
7x7 said:
The Honey

in Quran:

There issues From within their bodies A drink of varying colours, Wherein is healing for men. [Al-Quraan 16:69]

We are now aware that honey has a healing property and also a mild antiseptic property. The Russians used honey to cover their wounds in World War II. The wound would retain moisture and would leave very little scar tissue. Due to the density of honey, no fungus or bacteria would grow in the wound. A person suffering from an allergy of a particular plant may be given honey from that plant so that the person develops resistance to that allergy. Honey is rich in fructose and vitamin K. Thus the knowledge contained in the Quraan regarding honey, its origin and properties, was far ahead of the time it was revealed.


source = click me
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7x7.You are presuming ignorance on the part of the Arabs.

All cultures had medicine men and women who were highly knowledgeable about all the herbal medicines, which could be obtained from local plants, minerals etc.

I see no reason to believe they didn’t know about honey and its medical uses.
 
Igor Trip: However, the Earth's rotation is decelerating at a rate of about 0.002 seconds per day per century. It's been about a century since the atomic clocks' standard time, so the Earth is slowing relative to an atomic clock by about 0.002 seconds per day, or about 0.7 seconds per year.

So I don’t think we need worry about Judgement day for quite a while yet.
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M*W Interesting fact! Just wondering, though, if the Earth has been slowing down all this time, and we're losing gravity (the force that's holding us to the Earth), could that be some inborn instinct for humans to learn to fly?

Maybe this is far-fetched, but if our minds contain all the knowledge that is, then the cumulative mind would desire the knowledge of flight. So when gravity fails, we'll all fly? Reminds me of the song that I love, If a Picture Paints a Thousand Words (Then why can't I paint you?) "...and when the world stops spinning 'round to die, you'll come and pour yourself on me, and one-by-one, when the stars will all go out, then you and I will simply fly away."
 
Igor Trip: All cultures had medicine men and women who were highly knowledgeable about all the herbal medicines, which could be obtained from local plants, minerals etc.
*************
M*W: Igor, you rang?
 
Medicine Woman said:
M*W Interesting fact! Just wondering, though, if the Earth has been slowing down all this time, and we're losing gravity (the force that's holding us to the Earth), could that be some inborn instinct for humans to learn to fly?

."
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Sorry M.W but we are not losing gravity. Gravity stays the same as it is based on mass not rotation.
 
7x7 said:
so if one part of forbrain developed, that dosen't mean it works (the understanding).
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Yes I agree that doesn’t mean it works. However, that isn’t what you initially posted. Your initial post was about the primordial appearance of the cells that will lead to the organ that is responsible for hearing (aka ear) and sight (aka eye). You posted about the pre-STRUCTURES that will eventually become a working ear, eye and brain.

Now your story is changing. Now you are talking about really “hearing” and really “seeing” and really “thinking”.

In that regards, I said that in order to really hear or to really see there must, out of necessity, be a functioning brain present first.

As to the statement below – I do not know of any experiment that can measure when enough neurons are connected to establish that “thinking/understanding/feeling” is now occurring whereas just a moment ago it wasn't. If you do know of such an experiment I'd be happy to read it.

So the below statement has just been made up and has no bearing on my above statement - which necessitates that a functioning brain MUST be there first. And - you know - developmentally it is!

7x7 said:
Fetus at womb hear first
Fetus dream and see
Fetus realize and think and distinguish
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7x7, let start at first principles: How do you define “hearing” or “seeing”?

What I am asking is: What does it mean for you to “hear” or to “see” something?

So – as of now my 4 previous arguments stand. The passage in the Qur’an is developmentally incorrect.

However, that doesn’t mean that the statement is incorrect. Jus that it is developmentally incorrect.

For example:

In order to truly comprehend something one must first
hear the information with ones heart
and then see the logic in it.
Only then will one truly understand!

(like I said – anything can be made to mean anything – agreed?)
 
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