Islam Must Rule the World
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Because it's religious intolerance, which is wrong. It's wrong for it to be acceptable to build mosques in the West and illegal to build churches and synagogues and, frankly, everything else - including preaching and the like - in the Middle East. This is wrong. Supporting it is proof of intolerance.
It was a punitive protection racket; sorry. It was, according to the will of the "protectors" levied on women and children as well - where they failed to pay, they could be forced to convert, or sold as slaves.
??? What history books are you reading? Leonidas was killed as he leapt into the ranks of the Persians, slaying wildly about him until he was killed. This is basic stuff. Why don't you know this? You make it sound as though he and the 300 surrendered instead of kicking the shit out of the Persians - and, by the way, a few tens of thousands of Greeks beating a million or so Persians corresponds utterly to an ass-kicking of the absolute highest calibre.
No idea what you're trying to say here. Next.
Which is extremist and sick, by human standards if nothing else. As for killing the victim: you've forgotten the sura in the Quran where Mohammed says that to prove or disprove rape one must have four (male) witnesses? By the calculations of legal value employed in some places, you'd need eight women to prove that charge. That strikes me as injust.
Again, not sure what you're referring to here.
I regret to say that this is incorrect. The Jewish immigrants to the region bought up land at prices well above its actual worth. I don't know what they've been teaching you in Syria, but it's wrong, sorry. It sounds as though you've been brainwashed. They did take a lot of area in war, but then again they'd been defending themselves from hostile neighbours for a long, long time by 1948.
6373 Israelis, actually. And they beat four massive armies with tanks and modern aircraft and airplanes, while armed with rifles, Molotovs and a few mortars. Again, that's an ass-kicking extraordinaire. What a frigging rout.
With what? Pitchforks? Good luck with that.
O
Slander, and ridiculous slander too. "Israel" as a whole wants the Palestinians dead? Don't be ridiculous.
You seem to have ingested a lot of propaganda. Try sticking two fingers down your throat and see if yoyu can't regurgitate it; clear the pipes and relearn, grasshopper. If that doesn't work, try the other end.
The terrorists are innocent? By contrast, don't they say all Israelis are targets?
Not really fantasies. More like: fact. You should read up on it.
Most of theidiotsatheists in Iran probably think Shah Reza Pahlavi is the answer to the present regime.
Uh...didn't you think that a few threads back?
WTF! No, there totally is! It's true! Some of it's unofficial, of course.
Because it's religious intolerance, which is wrong. It's wrong for it to be acceptable to build mosques in the West and illegal to build churches and synagogues and, frankly, everything else - including preaching and the like - in the Middle East. This is wrong. Supporting it is proof of intolerance.
It was a punitive protection racket; sorry. It was, according to the will of the "protectors" levied on women and children as well - where they failed to pay, they could be forced to convert, or sold as slaves.
??? What history books are you reading? Leonidas was killed as he leapt into the ranks of the Persians, slaying wildly about him until he was killed. This is basic stuff. Why don't you know this? You make it sound as though he and the 300 surrendered instead of kicking the shit out of the Persians - and, by the way, a few tens of thousands of Greeks beating a million or so Persians corresponds utterly to an ass-kicking of the absolute highest calibre.
No idea what you're trying to say here. Next.
Which is extremist and sick, by human standards if nothing else. As for killing the victim: you've forgotten the sura in the Quran where Mohammed says that to prove or disprove rape one must have four (male) witnesses? By the calculations of legal value employed in some places, you'd need eight women to prove that charge. That strikes me as injust.
Again, not sure what you're referring to here.
I regret to say that this is incorrect. The Jewish immigrants to the region bought up land at prices well above its actual worth. I don't know what they've been teaching you in Syria, but it's wrong, sorry. It sounds as though you've been brainwashed. They did take a lot of area in war, but then again they'd been defending themselves from hostile neighbours for a long, long time by 1948.
6373 Israelis, actually. And they beat four massive armies with tanks and modern aircraft and airplanes, while armed with rifles, Molotovs and a few mortars. Again, that's an ass-kicking extraordinaire. What a frigging rout.
With what? Pitchforks? Good luck with that.
O
Slander, and ridiculous slander too. "Israel" as a whole wants the Palestinians dead? Don't be ridiculous.
You seem to have ingested a lot of propaganda. Try sticking two fingers down your throat and see if yoyu can't regurgitate it; clear the pipes and relearn, grasshopper. If that doesn't work, try the other end.
The terrorists are innocent? By contrast, don't they say all Israelis are targets?
Not really fantasies. More like: fact. You should read up on it.
Uh...didn't you think that a few threads back?
WTF! No, there totally is! It's true! Some of it's unofficial, of course.
Yup a million persians thats why there were only 185,000
what im saying is that israelis in america obviously would behave differently.
Exactly, Iranian law is extremist and sick, but so is Zionism. What strikes me as unjust is the belief that it is right to genocide an entire people for land.
I have an American education, first of all. It looks like you've been brainwashed since we both recieved the same education.
Regardless of what they payed, as I've said, it was not payed to the Palestinians, it was because of the UN. And regardless, if its Arab land it should remain to the arabs.
No, they beat four armies that had barely gotten on their feet. That's a lucky ass victory.
No, with bombs, planes, and tanks.
Yea, Israel would gladly see her neighbors die because it would mean she is free to do what she wants. But unfortunately the way things are headed are quite the opposite.
lol, me propaganda, coming from an American?
try the same, you seem to be an expert at it.No they target the terrorist IDF.
In the end we'll see who wins, right?
could you not even love me a little, my sweet little indian princess?
Slavery is not the topic, Islam is, and perhaps a primer on what is a piece of bark vs what can be considered reliable documentation, since you apparently cannot tell the difference. Whatever the Muslims of yore were, they were better researchers and more interested in accurate representation than some people I see here. Your tendency to introduce dubious citations as evidence (and if called upon it, claim it is a hypothetical discussion of values) is better suited to a separate thread invested solely in your version of hypothetical discussions based on shaky premises.
As for Yes/No answers, try this one on for size.
Stopped beating your girlfriend yet?
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No, you give me warts.
No only those who are clueless enough to be dangerous.
Yup a million persians thats why there were only 185,000
We'll split the difference and say 600,000 or so. Fair?
Dear Norsefire,
Israelis are in Israel. Americans are in America. Just thought I'd mention that. No idea what you're referring to.
Sincerely,
GeoffP
Are all Israelis zionist? Is it zionism to defend yourself from aggression?
Then you should have some understanding that the Jews bought the land - and yes, from the Palestinians where they were the owners.
Read on, and be pwned:
Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is that from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18
Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."19
It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20
When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: "They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."21
In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been "dispossessed." British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government's legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.22
In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al*Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.23
The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land."24 Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population." The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.25
In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote:
It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping (emphasis in the original).26
Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.27
The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."28
By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el*Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.30
18 Moshe Aumann, Land Ownership in Palestine 1880-1948, (Jerusalem: Academic Committee on the Middle East, 1976), p. 5.
19 Shabtai Teveth, Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs: From Peace to War, (London: Oxford University Press, 1985), p. 32.
20 Yehoshua Porath, Palestinian Arab National Movement: From Riots to Rebellion: 1929-1939, vol. 2, (London: Frank Cass and Co., Ltd., 1977), pp. 80, 84.
21 John Hope Simpson, Palestine: Report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development, (London, 1930), p. 51.
22 Avneri, pp. 149-158; Cohen, p. 37; based on the Report on Agricultural Development and Land Settlement in Palestine by Lewis French, (December 1931, Supplementary; Report, April 1932) and material submitted to the Palestine Royal Commission.
23 Netanel Lorch, One Long War, (Jerusalem: Keter, 1976), p. 27; Sachar, p. 201.
24 Palestine Royal Commission Report (1937), p. 242.
25 Palestine Royal Commission (1937), pp. 241-242.
26 King Abdallah, My Memoirs Completed, (London, Longman Group, Ltd., 1978), pp. 88-89.
27 Yehoshua Porath, Palestinian Arab National Movement: From Riots to Rebellion: 1929-1939, vol. 2, (London: Frank Cass and Co., Ltd., 1977), pp. 86-87.
28 Moshe Aumann, Land Ownership in Palestine 1880-1948, (Jerusalem: Academic Committee on the Middle East, 1976), p. 13.
29 Abraham Granott, The Land System in Palestine, (London, Eyre and Spottiswoode, 1952), p. 278.
30 Arieh Avneri, The Claim of Dispossession, (Tel Aviv: Hidekel Press, 1984), p. 28; Yehoshua Porath, The Emergence of the Palestinian-Arab National Movement, 1918-1929, (London: Frank Cass, 1974), pp. 179-180, 224-225, 232-234; Porath (77), pp. 72-73.
Total nonsense. The enemy vastly outgunned them, and they still won with the barest of equipment.
Total supposition. You don't even know what life is like in Israel, yet you're certain they want to kill you all.
lol, me propaganda, coming from an American?
No, I'm an expert in the truth. It only stings because you're not used to it. Also: not American.
With free-fall unaimed rockets and suicide bombers, eh?
Then I conclude you have no interest in peace, and never did. The Israelis have nukes. Try them at your leisure.
I put little faith in the descendants of the Shah; but that's for Iran to decide anyway.
Oh, well that's a base insinuation against my faith system then. I can't believe your level of misinformation. I plan to sputter in indignant texting for a while and then cast aspersions on your knowledge and character.
GeoffP: I see from your (mis)information that you have been bereft of the advantages of updates. Kindly refer to the information released from the IDF archives as discussed in The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine; for a snapshot view of the times, I also recommend The City of Oranges.
Let me know when you get around to them.
Let me know when you get around to them.
I did not realise that cluelessness was a basis of the faith; I stand corrected and will include that in my dealings with your community in the future. Let nothing stand in the way of syncretism.
As long as you can show a lack of author bias and a preponderance of valid evidence used for constructing conclusions, why not?:shrug:
I find it curious though, that you appear to desire quid pro quo as a condition for looking at what is very objective data from an unbiased source.
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It's funny, but I had the same perspective on some of your arguments, although more tu quoque.
How do I know the author is unbiased, though? I have only your word to go on ATM.
You could always check them out and indicate to me if there is any bias. AFAIK, there is none, mainly from the sources and presentation.
I don't support the decision to not allow other religious worshipping in your nation. To my knowledge, Saudi Arabia is one of the few, if only, countries in the middle east that doesn't allow other buildings of worship, such as synagogues and churches. Even the Iranians, who are the focus of this thread, allow other religious buildings of worship. Saudi Arabia has many corrupt, intolerant rules, such as not permitting women to drive.
Um...women and children didn't pay the jizya, if that is what you're getting at.
Jizya was applied to every free adult male member of the People of the Book, and/or non-Muslim living in lands under Muslim rule and the funds were collected for the benefit of the Muslim Ummah. There was no amount permanently fixed for the tax, though the payment usually depended on wealth: the Kitab al-Kharaj of Abu Yusuf sets the amounts at 48 dirhams for the richest (e.g. moneychangers), 24 for those of moderate wealth, and 12 for craftsmen and manual laborers.[20] Females, children, the poor, and hermits were exempt. The disabled and elderly were exempt unless they were independently wealthy, as were mendicant monks—those living in productive monasteries had to pay. Though jizya was mandated specifically for other monotheistic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism), under the Maliki school of Fiqh jizya was extended to all non-Muslims.[21] Thus some Muslim rulers also collected jizya from Hindus and Sikhs under their rule. The collection of the tax was sometimes the duty of the elders of those communities, but often it was collected directly from individuals, in accordance with specific payment rituals described in the writings of Muslim jurists.
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