Islam Must Rule the World
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I did answer your question. If I'm not mistaken, it is the origin of all of our dialogue today. I have already mentioned that the occupation of territory and continual expansion by the Arabs and Muslims were legal at the time. During those points in history, conquering land, waging war, engaging in battle, etc, was all legal and a very basic tenet and common part of life. There were no guidelines for war or its aftermath, legally or morally.
The problem with judging actions in the past based off legal arguments are that, these laws and conventions did not exist during those times. The problem with the morality argument is that morals are never a unanimous agreement, and the difference in innumerable things shapes each individuals morals (exposure to different cultures, personal experiences, etc). In our modern era, we still don't base our legal instincts on morals. Some nations have legalized marijuana while many religions deem it as immoral. Who are we to follow? The morality of some, or the laws of some?
The problem with judging actions in the past based off legal arguments are that, these laws and conventions did not exist during those times. The problem with the morality argument is that morals are never a unanimous agreement, and the difference in innumerable things shapes each individuals morals (exposure to different cultures, personal experiences, etc). In our modern era, we still don't base our legal instincts on morals. Some nations have legalized marijuana while many religions deem it as immoral. Who are we to follow? The morality of some, or the laws of some?
These laws are in direct opposition to ample Israeli wrongdoings, primarily including colonizing of land and oppression of its civilians.
Well then, should Citizens, in our modern era, say living in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia be allowed build a Hindu Temple to a Fire God? You once said no to that question. I wonder, would Citizens in this Islamic One World Government be able to make and publish cartoons that make fun of Mohammad? Or even insult Mohammad? Say he was full of it and it's all hogwash?
Under this Islamic One World Government will people be discriminated against by their religous beleif?
You are against oppression but as I see there is such a scarcity of human sculptures in the classical Islamic world as to shout out loud - oppression, of the mind.
Isn't it inherent in the Islamic Government that people are discriminated and taxed based on their personal beleif?
THAT'S a better system?!?!?!
Think again about this real girl.
A poor slave.
Probably a pretty girl, nice eyes and mouth, shapely legs - of course a beautiful singing voice.
Maybe not to educated being a slave and all. But she seemed to be well liked by the people.
Sentenced to be murdered ... ... .. and for what?
What exactly did she do? This young little weak singing girl.
Sounds like if she'd had the good fortune of hiding with her friend she'd have lived. Maybe had a nice husband and good children. Lived a productive life.
But she was painfully butchered.
Probably knifed and left to die. A big knife just under the ribs can cut through a lot of flesh yet leave a person to linger in horrid pain for hours on end.
Maybe it was through her beautiful face? Maybe her murder cut off her cheeks and lips were ripped out her tongue - you know to make the point about singing funny songs about Mohammad.
I mean that's the whole point huh?
A little different than the whole forgive and forget or equality under the law of a court.
It must have been a scary place to live in, your life taken on the word of some guy at his whim.
Thank the Gods we live in a land of Laws now and not like it was back then huh Kadark? Thanks goodness we live in a secular state where people aren't killed for reverting back to being Arab polytheist or for singing funny ditties.
Much better now than back then - wouldn't you agree?
Well then, should Citizens, in our modern era, say living in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia be allowed build a Hindu Temple to a Fire God? You once said no to that question. I wonder, would Citizens in this Islamic One World Government be able to make and publish cartoons that make fun of Mohammad? Or even insult Mohammad? Say he was full of it and it's all hogwash?
Under this Islamic One World Government will people be discriminated against by their religous beleif?
You are against oppression but as I see there is such a scarcity of human sculptures in the classical Islamic world as to shout out loud - oppression, of the mind.
Isn't it inherent in the Islamic Government that people are discriminated and taxed based on their personal beleif?
THAT'S a better system?!?!?!
Think again about this real girl.
A poor slave.
Probably a pretty girl, nice eyes and mouth, shapely legs - of course a beautiful singing voice.
Maybe not to educated being a slave and all. But she seemed to be well liked by the people.
Sentenced to be murdered ... ... .. and for what?
What exactly did she do? This young little weak singing girl.
Sounds like if she'd had the good fortune of hiding with her friend she'd have lived. Maybe had a nice husband and good children. Lived a productive life.
But she was painfully butchered.
Probably knifed and left to die. A big knife just under the ribs can cut through a lot of flesh yet leave a person to linger in horrid pain for hours on end.
Maybe it was through her beautiful face? Maybe her murder cut off her cheeks and lips were ripped out her tongue - you know to make the point about singing funny songs about Mohammad.
I mean that's the whole point huh?
A little different than the whole forgive and forget or equality under the law of a court.
It must have been a scary place to live in, your life taken on the word of some guy at his whim.
Thank the Gods we live in a land of Laws now and not like it was back then huh Kadark? Thanks goodness we live in a secular state where people aren't killed for reverting back to being Arab polytheist or for singing funny ditties.
Much better now than back then - wouldn't you agree?
No, because if you proposed the idea of building a mosque near a holy hindu site in India, you'd likely be killed. Besides, it seems Hindus are content with the territory in which their ability to build a temple is allowed. That being said, it is evident that Hindus don't view it is a problem, so why should you?
Absolutely not.
No, there was no "oppression" just because of a lack of human sculptures; I fail to recognize the logic and rationality in that, to be brutally honest. It seems the Muslims or members of the Caliphate were more interested in science and mathematics. The lack of one branch of art doesn't necessitate the existence of oppression.
The jizya, as I have said countless times, is a tax imposed only on the able-bodied men that have a source of income. The tax wasn't to encumber the non-Muslim people, and never actually was a burden. The poor non-Muslims paid small amounts of tax, while the rich non-Muslims, as you would expect, paid higher. These taxes were for their ability to practice faith and provided armed service and protection from the Muslims of the area. That meant that if there was a war or battle of any sort (very common in those days), the Muslims of the city/state would have to fight the wars and risk death. Finally, Muslims themselves had a compulsory tax, the zakat (which went directly to people living in poverty for food and shelter).
Where the hell are you drawing this conclusion? She could have been butt-ugly and fat as a whale with a voice that shattered glass. Who are you to say?
Not already have I explained the possibility of a unreliable hadith, I have also asked what book/volume/number this particular hadith is. On top of that, it wasn't her singing that was the problem; it was the insulting of a Prophet. Assuming the hadith isn't fabricated, of course.
No, not at all. What's so great now? The worldwide epidemic of HIV/AIDS/STDs? The fact that the majority of the world live in poverty? That hundreds of millions are dying from countless diseases, famines, warfare, etc? I can't think of anything getting better, to be honest. Seems like things are going downhill throughout the majority of the globe. Enjoy it while you can, because the ride down is far from over. But...don't take my word for it.
So, likewise if the Jewish don't want any Mosques built then you’d be all for that? Maybe they’ll remove all Mosques from Israel? Than that’s just fine. (How many Synagogues in KSA?)
Weird that you don’t see that as oppression because I would, but hey if that’s your answer.
There is a Mosque just 2 KM from the St. Peters in Rome. SEE Kadark THAT'S freedom. Your notion of banning the construction of religous buildings is actually oppression.
Taxing people based on their belief is by definition discriminating based on belief.
:bugeye:
Actually it was the loss.
Seems to me something is wrong there. But hey, you think living in a World with a little less art is somehow better…
Oh, so now we’re happy to Tax Iraqis for practicing their faith and use that money to pay for the US led occupation.
Just great. This One World thing is sounding better and better.. ..:bugeye:
:bugeye: OOOoooKayy
And you think insulting the Prophet is reason enough to put someone to death?
Muslims get HIV and STDs too Kadark,
Muslims have died of poverty and famine well before Secular governments.
Muslims made war against one another well before there were any Secular institutions.
Shia and Sunni started killing one another pretty much from the death of the founder – which is notoriously common in many cults-of-personality type governments.
A couple things.
1) The West could implode – that has no bearing on whether Islamic governments will be successful. Probably things will be much worse for them.
2) Islam doesn’t increase productivity or offer any sort of economic solutions. If so list them. If not then admit as much.
3) At least the Communists were smart enough to figure it out in a generation – geesh.
4) Islam had 1500 year to get it going and I am sure you MUST AGREE they couldn’t hold a candle to what secular institutions have accomplished over a couple hundred. That’s a simple fact. Some things, as I posted, didn’t even reach to the level of the Greeks 2000 years before them. Man, Slavery was banned by the Europeans. If they didn’t even progress to level of banning slavery ….. Kadark – that says something. Don’t you agree?
No human form in art …. I wonder if it has any connection with the scarf and burka?
Something to think about,
Michael
Dear Michael,
I will have to loook it up but they have toyed with the idea of using WMD if iran do not halt thier wMD program.
but thats hope not
As geoff says below we should have MAD in the MiddleEast to prevent war their so role on the Iranian bomb.
yes thats why they need 200 nukes at least not to mention the neutron bombs
and blowing the shit out of Lebanons infrastruture solves loads doesn't it, oh apart from kill civilians and still no release of the soliders.
Did these istraelis ever have peace in mind!!????!!?!?!
yes it does take 2 but as shamir says Arabs are the Same Arabs and as barak says we have no partner and so on and so forth, not to mention the nonsense coming out of the Arab leaderships mouths either.
no it was britsh mandate of Palestine.
yes the Arab leadership is dispciable with their use of "the plaestinain situation" as i have said on numerous occasions.
So why winge if the iranians are developing bombs (whether they are or not) israel only have 200+ of them so you have MAD at the end of the day whichb protected the wolrd for ww3 or a nuke holcaust as you mention.
~~~~~~~~~
take it ez
zak
Way too much ignorance in this post to deal with; so lets forget about the complete absence of any facts here; I suggest you go through your own posts line by line for historical accuracy.
example 1. the hijab as a "Muslim dress" is just a hundred years old (colonial intervention, anyone?) veiling, throughout the history of veiling in Islam pre-hijab was restricted to the upper classes as copied from the Byzantines.
some perspective (not written on bark or your buddies blogs)
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_201_250/Hijab_and_Hajibs.htm
http://www.womeninworldhistory.com/essay-01.html
example 2. slavery still exists; fair trade led to another 30,000 children dying today (as on every other day); calling it fair trade rather than exploitation and unfair oppression, of course, makes it all better.
also , you mentioned the Iranians you know, does that include any Muslim ones? Cos I know a lot of Muslim Iranians who hate the administration but not Islam, so I want to know if your buddies (who from my experience of their knowledge, wallow with you in ignorance) are also atheists. And what percentage of Iranians do they make up.
And what they are doing to change the situation in their country?
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"Mutually assured destruction", in the context of a runt dictator who's threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" and spearheads new reconstructions of antisemitism, might mean a very different thing than the historical NATO-Warsaw Pact meaning, if you take my drift.
You do realize they're outnumbered 200 to one and hated by not single nations, but every nation around them for their temerity in building a Jewish state on a part of dar-al-islam? Or that every nation - including India and Pakistan - with nukes always builds far, far more than necessary? (Probably economy of scale.
) Or that any attack on them, even if the originating country were destroyed, would be immediately capitalized on by any neighbouring nation with the capacity to put men in BMPs and roll them westward? Meaning: if Iran were to nuke them, the Israelis would probably take out everyone around them in response. Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, everyone. The ultimate Masada. And yet the leadership of Iran shows every intention of being insane enough to launch in the sidelong hope of bringing about the advent of their Mahdi, or at least waking him up from the bottom of the well. You also realize, I assume, that the resulting and somewhat one-sided exchange would bring on at the very least a nuclear autumn, and more probably a nuclear winter, with global rather than local effects (which no help could be provided for anyway, and which would mean the rapid death of about a quarter billion people and the irradiation of about another 300 million more, with immediate and far-reaching health effects well into the next half-millenium). You have a wife and kids, Zak. Does it seem like a good idea to let Iran have the chance to push the Israelis into starting a nuclear winter with worldwide fallout and a temperature decrease of a solid 5 degrees C? Maybe we could have another ice age, even! That would be GREAT for skiing, not so good for crop growing.Terrorists are human targets too, and that's what the munitions were for. Maybe they could stop hiding behind civilian buildings and in built-up areas?
Yes; but it got squashed by the religio-political realities of the region; sentiments which persist today.
Agreed. Many on both sides don't want peace badly enough; or at all, in some cases.
The leadership on both sides needs work. I think it atrocious that the Palestinians have been used as a ploy; nor am I happy that there was such an exodus, but I don't think it would have worked societally anyway. It would have gone the same way as the ancestral Jewish and Manichaen culture in the region; the slow supremacist squeeze.
See above. MAD vis-a-vis Israel/Iran not the same thing as NATO/WP.
Yes: in Saudi Arabia. And Saudi households in California, apparently.
A lot, I hope. But can they change their government's mind? Will they brave the religious police and the army?
There are movements of course; a dangerous business. I wish them well, but I wonder at the prognosis.
PS: Zak - by deterrence I meant deterrence against conventional invasion, besides the IDF. The numerical advantage enjoyed by the hostile nations around them suggests that such a disparity could be protected against with nuclear threat, if necessary. Actually, is it really known that Israel has 200 nukes, or is it a guess?
The Greeks beat the Persians down like a red-haired stepchild. They spanked them. They gave the Persians so many rights they were begging for a left. Kicked them around like dogs. Oh my God, what a slaughter. Kicked the shit out of the Immortals and killed two of Xerxes brothers while being outnumbered - what? 1000 to 1? Man, what a beating. I don't think there's ever been anything like it.
This is a very, very strange accusation on your part. I know numerous Israelis and strangely it failed to come up in the general conversation. I think you're sitting too close to the microwave.
?? It matters if they're Arab? Who cares? I'm concerned with islamic interpretations of law, not ethnicity.
...oh. So you see the Israelis' point then? Ok, good.
See, now I thought you were being reasonable and now you're back to this again. The Israelis bought it fair and square, and won the rest defending themselves against genocide. That's a fair deal in anyone's book. Maybe if their neighbours had been a bit less, I dunno, supremacist about their religion, everything would have been ok. But they figured that the incoming Jews would be just like the "regular" Occidental Jews; nice and suppressed and quiet. They weren't. They pushed back. Hey, tough.
Actually, they beat the snot out of the invading Arab armies almost entirely on their own in 1948. In contrast...how many Arab armies was it that invaded them in the first place? Four? The Israelis had no tanks, nine obsolete airplanes, no artillery except some crappy little mortars, and they still beat the invaders - Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq, not to mention the local guerillas - so bad that they had them running in - what? about two months. US support had little to do with the survival of Israel in 1948. Later on they did get US arms, of course. Although I wonder what the Syrian and Jordanian and Egyptian armies would be without Soviet (and now Russian) support? Is it possible to be less than nothing?? :shrug:
No, Hezbollah is evil because they won't make peace and because they want a genocide of the Jewish inhabitants of Israel. I don't agree with more settler expansion, but the history of Israel is of a people doing what they had to do to survive and overcoming incredible odds to do so. Things would have been simpler if the Arab religious establishment had just decided to be a little more humanitarian. "Hardening hearts". Hmm. Makes you wonder whose side God is on, eh?
It would probably be better if the Arab countries around them learned to live in peace. Israel doesn't have nukes for nothing, you know.
Um no Leonidas laid down his arms and then was killed and Persia lost the overall Greco-Persian wars but they didn't get their asses "kicked" there's a difference. The 2006 Hesbollah confrontation is an example of "asses kicked" which was Israel.
Numerous Israelis that live in the USA. Woopee, what do you expect them to do?
And I'm concerned that you don't know what the fuck an extremist is. I dont remember anywhere in the Qu'ran it says to kill a 15 year old rape victim. Nope, you're concerned with Iranian interpretation of law.
Oh yea I see their point, they want to exterminate arabs of which they will fail.
The israelis didn't "buy" anything. the UN gave them what little land they had, which is not fair and square I'm afraid. You can't just steal land and call it fair and square. Maybe if their neighbors didn't fight back, they wouldve taken the whole ME, Israelis thought they could get away with it, apparently they can't. Hey, tough.
Beat the snot? Um yea that's why over 10,000 israelis died in 1948, you need to learn what "beat the snot" and "won" is. They had a minor victory, nothing special
Now think here, what would've become of Israel without US aid? Nothing, her neighbors would've rearmed and crushed her. And regardless of the soviet union, we would've rearmed on our own like we've done in the past. Is it possible that Israel would be less than nothing without US aid?:shrug:
Quite the contrary, Israel is evil because they don't want peace and want the genocide of the Palestinians. The history of Israel is that it belonged to the Israelites, of which they are gone and the "russian" israelis do not have claim to the Land of Israel.
Oh yea, God is defintely on the side that kills innocent palestinians and murders the innocent, kinda makes you wonder eh?
I'll take some cranberries with the Turkey thanks
More fantasies. Probably need a mask while wading in E Korea.:bugeye:
Most of the
And there are lots of weapons in, inter alios, Saudi Arabia, now that the US is exporting freedom so generously.
I'll take some cranberries with the Turkey thanks
You should chew on the bark instead.:bugeye:
There are plenty of immigrants who are illegally detained by their employers and exploited for economic reasons, because they send money to poor relatives at home.
Unlike in the West. /sarcasm
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