I think that Ak..ten might have had some birth defect, genetic illness or something.
Not that improbable with all that interbreeding. Besides he had a wife and three daughters. If they were not adopted, A..ten probably was a male.
Is the god of Christ the god of Jews?
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I think that Ak..ten might have had some birth defect, genetic illness or something.
Not that improbable with all that interbreeding. Besides he had a wife and three daughters. If they were not adopted, A..ten probably was a male.
God goes by (no doubt) countless names in the universe.
All Gods and Goddesses are simply various portrayals of God each with the cultural habits of the people involved factored into it.
The overall consensus of thousands of near death accounts from around the world seems to back this up.
Yes, I have heard all the skeptics claims on NDEs'. They do not explain well enough the commanality of the patterns that emerge after studying hundreds of them.
Although I will remain open to it ultimately being just another "phenomena".
Without extra-biblical (or whatever religous text in question) support to the "oneness of God" ,you are simply faced with endless circular arguments as each group will factor in extreme bias on their ideas about God and never accept any information simply based on an anthropological view.
I rest my case!
Avatar ..my apologies ..I will refrain from references to paranormal activity and in the future post in the context of this thread.
Cheers!
In support of:
Stellar distances and atomic distances are roughly equal in a ratio sort of way. Do you doubt the integrity of say, your hand?
I rest my case!
Avatar ..my apologies ..I will refrain from references to paranormal activity and in the future post in the context of this thread.
Cheers!
Yo Nova900, I wouldn't worry too much 'bout the thumper, s/he seems to be rather fixated...
All this debate around Moses' connection with Egyptian magic not only makes me think even more that the god of Christ different than the god of the Jews, but that maybe, just maybe that Jehovah is a different 'god' than the gods* of the book of Genesis.
And that Jehovah is NOT the god of all creation, that Jehovah is a poser, an interloper.
*I haven't looked at it for many years but it seemed that more than 1 entity/deity is referenced.
B
BlueMoose
Guest
-Akhenaten and missing mummy ?
In year 14 Akhenaten´s reign, Nefertiti herself vanishes from historical record, and there is no word of her after that date. Her disappearance coincides with the rise of co-ruler Smenkhkare to the throne. Smenkhkare is thought to have been married to her daughter Meritaten, and may have become Akhenaten´s co-regent for a few years before Akhenaten´s death. He certainly ruled Egypt for a brief period since he is attested in his Year 1 one a wine label from "the House of Smenkhkare".
However, Smenkhkare is also depicted in many of the same ways as Nefertiti was, and his regnal name, Nefernefruaten, is quite similar to that of Nefertiti. He is sometimes depicted as lookig very femine, and even his name was sometimes written with a femine ending. This has led some scholars to believe that Smenkhkare was in fact another name Nefertit, and instead of falling from grace or dying, Nefertiti actually rose in power, taking the throne for herself after the death of her husband.
http://www.egyptologyonline.com/akhenaten1.htm
......................
In 1332 BC Akhenaten died, the circumstances never explained. His memory and all that he had created soon to erased from history not to be found for centuries later.
Of all the royal mummies ever discovered none has ever caused more controversy then the one found in tomb 55 of the Valley of the Kings.
At the beginning of the 20th Century, Theodore Davis, a wealthy American excavating in Egypt, discovered a tomb in which a burial from the Armana period had been reinterred. This tomb was clearly unfinished, and the burial a hasty one. Gilded wooden inlay panels on the floor and against the wall. They bore the damaged image of Akhenaten worshiping the sun disc and the name of Queen Tiy.
In a niche were four beautiful alabaster jars that held the internal organs of the mummies. Lying on the floor was a badly damaged but beautiful coffin made with thousands of paste in-lays and semi-precious stones in the shape of protective wings. The cartouches containing the occupants name had been hacked out.
When they opened the coffin they found a mummy wrapped in gold-leaf. But as they touched the mummy it crumbled to dust leaving the excavators with a pile of disarticulated bones at the bottom of the coffin. But beneath the skeleton, the last sheet of gold, seemed to have the damaged named of Akhenaten written on it. The pelvis was wide like a female's. The head was elongated.
What really became of Akhenaten's mummy still remains a mystery. Fragments of sculpture and carving from the royal tomb at Akhetaten shows that his body was originally put there, but no sign of the mummy remains. It is possible that followers of the Aten feared for it's destruction, which would deny him eternal life, and moved the body to a place of safety
www.crystalinks.com/akhenaten.html (akh1)
-Intresting issue, there is so much information, its like putting together 1000 pieces puzzle and having 10 0000 pieces.
In year 14 Akhenaten´s reign, Nefertiti herself vanishes from historical record, and there is no word of her after that date. Her disappearance coincides with the rise of co-ruler Smenkhkare to the throne. Smenkhkare is thought to have been married to her daughter Meritaten, and may have become Akhenaten´s co-regent for a few years before Akhenaten´s death. He certainly ruled Egypt for a brief period since he is attested in his Year 1 one a wine label from "the House of Smenkhkare".
However, Smenkhkare is also depicted in many of the same ways as Nefertiti was, and his regnal name, Nefernefruaten, is quite similar to that of Nefertiti. He is sometimes depicted as lookig very femine, and even his name was sometimes written with a femine ending. This has led some scholars to believe that Smenkhkare was in fact another name Nefertit, and instead of falling from grace or dying, Nefertiti actually rose in power, taking the throne for herself after the death of her husband.
http://www.egyptologyonline.com/akhenaten1.htm
......................
In 1332 BC Akhenaten died, the circumstances never explained. His memory and all that he had created soon to erased from history not to be found for centuries later.
Of all the royal mummies ever discovered none has ever caused more controversy then the one found in tomb 55 of the Valley of the Kings.
At the beginning of the 20th Century, Theodore Davis, a wealthy American excavating in Egypt, discovered a tomb in which a burial from the Armana period had been reinterred. This tomb was clearly unfinished, and the burial a hasty one. Gilded wooden inlay panels on the floor and against the wall. They bore the damaged image of Akhenaten worshiping the sun disc and the name of Queen Tiy.
In a niche were four beautiful alabaster jars that held the internal organs of the mummies. Lying on the floor was a badly damaged but beautiful coffin made with thousands of paste in-lays and semi-precious stones in the shape of protective wings. The cartouches containing the occupants name had been hacked out.
When they opened the coffin they found a mummy wrapped in gold-leaf. But as they touched the mummy it crumbled to dust leaving the excavators with a pile of disarticulated bones at the bottom of the coffin. But beneath the skeleton, the last sheet of gold, seemed to have the damaged named of Akhenaten written on it. The pelvis was wide like a female's. The head was elongated.
What really became of Akhenaten's mummy still remains a mystery. Fragments of sculpture and carving from the royal tomb at Akhetaten shows that his body was originally put there, but no sign of the mummy remains. It is possible that followers of the Aten feared for it's destruction, which would deny him eternal life, and moved the body to a place of safety
www.crystalinks.com/akhenaten.html (akh1)
-Intresting issue, there is so much information, its like putting together 1000 pieces puzzle and having 10 0000 pieces.
If you look at the Bible as stories of man's understanding of his relationship with God, then the Christian and Jewish deities are not incompatible. What is changing is not God, but our understanding of how God wants us to live and relate with God.
A more revelent point is that while Christians say Jesus is the Jewish Messiah on earth, I understand where Jews are coming from if they don't believe the idea of Messiah presented in the Old Testament was realized in Jesus.
A more revelent point is that while Christians say Jesus is the Jewish Messiah on earth, I understand where Jews are coming from if they don't believe the idea of Messiah presented in the Old Testament was realized in Jesus.
B
BlueMoose
Guest
Ram ~ Jews / Piscies ~ Christians / Aquarius ~ ?
You do? Can you expand on that a bit further? Precisely where are they coming from--according to Scripture--such that they "don't believe the idea of Messiah presented in the Old Testament was realised in Jesus"?
The Old Testament was all the early Christians had to work with when it came to understanding the Messiah. The majority of early Christians were Jews, including many priests, scribes, and pharisees...
To rehash a post I made way back.
Read what Jesus actually said and did rather than over emphaszing what Paul and others said about him after he was gone.
He always seemed to me to be attempting to reform the Jewish religion rather than proposing a new one. This seems especially indicated by his wrath at the money lenders on the temple grounds. This wrath was probably also directed at the priests and those who sold sacrificail animals. At that time, there was a scam involving those latter two groups.
BTW: I happen to be an atheist who was raised by a Catholic mother and a Quaker father. In threads like this one, I think posters should indicate their religious background & basic view toward religion. Readers should be given that data to use in judging bias.
Read what Jesus actually said and did rather than over emphaszing what Paul and others said about him after he was gone.
He always seemed to me to be attempting to reform the Jewish religion rather than proposing a new one. This seems especially indicated by his wrath at the money lenders on the temple grounds. This wrath was probably also directed at the priests and those who sold sacrificail animals. At that time, there was a scam involving those latter two groups.
BTW: I happen to be an atheist who was raised by a Catholic mother and a Quaker father. In threads like this one, I think posters should indicate their religious background & basic view toward religion. Readers should be given that data to use in judging bias.
A scandal involving the members of the priesthood, huh. There always is.
My "basic view toward religion"
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=70409
What's your point?
I agree that some Jews converted to Jesus' new interpretations of Judaism. However, in the Old Testament Messiah is the central figure of expectation. Toward the end of Isaiah (around chapter 63) we begin to see how the Israelite worldwide king would gain rule, in other words how the Gentiles would be gathered into the kingdom. At this point the Messiah is a conqueror, trampling in anger, blood spattering garments. (Isaiah 63:3). How could the Israelites have seen that part of their Messiah in a man who rode a DONKEY (or colt) into Jerusalem. Jesus didn't have an army. He preached of nonviolent responses when being provoked.
I appreciate your answer...thx.
Consider Luke 4:16-21... when Jesus addressed those present at the synogogue in Nazareth He quoted Isaiah 61, beginning with verse one, but then suddenly stops half way through the first sentence of verse two:
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD...
As it says, He then closed the scroll, handing it to someone nearby, and sat down. With everyone looking at Him, He stated catagorically "This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears." If you will check the passage Jesus was quoting, you will find the second half of verse two reads thusly:
and the day of vengeance of our God...
He left that portion out, and for good reason. Essentially, it is a line of demarcation, differentiating between the activity of God on earth with respect to Christ's First Advent, and that which will surround His Second.
Christ proceeds to remind them of their history...how Israel had missed out on previous blessings/visitations of/by God due largely to their inability--due to their unwillingness--to "put two and two together" when it really mattered. Why? Well a cursory reading of their history as recorded in the Old Testament reveals them repeatedly resisting God's activity on their behalf either through unbelief or disobedience--more often than not by a combination of the two--the end result being God was unable to work among them. This sad state of affairs is reiterated by Stephen in Acts chapter 7, culminating in his murder.
Countless examples supporting Christ's comments regarding God being unable to work among His own people, along with Stephen's retracing the Jewish peoples proclivity for disobedience and unbelief could be given...the bottom line according to God's Word is they are without excuse, making it clear the blame for their rejecting of Christ rests squarely on their shoulders.
When Herod asked the chief priests where the Messiah was to be born, they responded with the correct answer...Bethlehem. When push came to shove, they certainly had the means to put all the pieces together, and many Jews--not "some"--did just that. So, "How could the Israelites have seen that part of their Messiah in a man who rode a DONKEY (or colt) into Jerusalem."? The same way they ferreted out the location of The Messiah's birthplace, i.e. by consulting Scripture. Let's take your example, Jesus riding a donkey into Jerusalem:
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
It's right there in the OT for anyone to see...again, consider Jesus came right out and told them the Isaiah passage had been fullfilled as they listened to Him speak, before their eyes...He was speaking to them plainly, no parables or cryptic speech...they simply chose not to believe Him, and in fact attempted to kill Him.
When you say Jesus didn't have an army and that He preached nonviolent responses when being provoked you are correct. He did not have an army at that time... However, at the time of His Second Advent, Revelation 19 reveals He will in fact have an army...allusions to Isaiah 63 are found particularly in verses 11-21.
The non violent responses are directed to His followers...not Him. Indeed Romans 12 (alluding to Deuteronomy 32:35) declares:
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
And so He shall.
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Thanks! I appreciate your time in answering, and I enjoyed your insight. I know that Jesus claimed Messiahship and was aware of the Old Testament prophecies about him. Maybe the Jewish people who rejected Jesus' claim did not anticipate that salvation would be opened up to Gentiles BEFORE the bloodshed. Does the OT indicate a period of waiting between the arrival of the Messiah and the vengeance.
I don't quite understand what you mean here:
Can you rephrase what you are saying above?
Yes. Study the book of Daniel...also, in that same book, the precise timing of the Messiah's arrival was predicted...copies of this scroll must have remained in the area that was Babylon after the Jews returned from exile, as "the wise men from the east" really would've had no other way of understanding when the time was right to seek "He that is born King of the Jews"...again, the timetable was right in front of them (the Jews) and here are gentiles seeking the Jewish King... all the while amazingly the Jews themselves are oblivious to that which God had done (prophecy the timetable/count down to the arrival of their Messiah) and was now doing in their midst (The Incarnation).
Can you rephrase what you are saying above?
Yes. Study the book of Daniel...also, in that same book, the precise timing of the Messiah's arrival was predicted...copies of this scroll must have remained in the area that was Babylon after the Jews returned from exile, as "the wise men from the east" really would've had no other way of understanding when the time was right to seek "He that is born King of the Jews"...again, the timetable was right in front of them (the Jews) and here are gentiles seeking the Jewish King... all the while amazingly the Jews themselves are oblivious to that which God had done (prophecy the timetable/count down to the arrival of their Messiah) and was now doing in their midst (The Incarnation).