Is the god of Christ the god of Jews?

[S.A.M.]

Is that ALL Jews? Many of them believe he is bequeathing land leases, for instance. I would call that interference in personal lives to a significant extent. And they believe in Heaven and Hell, just not the Christian heaven and hell

Heaven and hell is where the soul receives its punishment and reward after death. Yes, Judaism believes in, and Jewish traditional sources extensively discuss, punishment and reward in the afterlife (indeed, it is one of the "Thirteen Principles" of Judaism enumerated by Maimonides). But these are a very different "heaven" and "hell" than what one finds described in medieval Christian texts or New Yorker cartoons. Heaven is not a place of halos and harps, nor is hell populated by those red creatures with pitchforks depicted on the label of non-kosher canned meat.

After death, the soul returns to its Divine Source, together with all the G-dliness it has "extracted" from the physical world by using it for meaningful purposes. The soul now relives its experiences on another plane, and experiences the good it accomplished during its physical lifetime as incredible happiness and pleasure, and the negative as incredibly painful.

...The soul's experience of the G-dliness it brought into the world with its mitzvot and positive actions is the exquisite pleasure of Gan Eden (the "Garden of Eden"--i.e., Paradise); its experience of the destructiveness it wrought through its lapses and transgressions is the excruciating pain of Gehinom ("Gehenna" or "Purgatory").

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282508/jewish/What-Happens-After-We-Die.htm

They also apparently believe in reincarnation

At times, a soul may not conclude its mission in a single lifetime. In such cases, it returns to earth for a "second go" to complete the job. This is the concept of gilgul neshamot--commonly referred to as "reincarnation"--extensively discussed in the teachings of Kabbalah.12 This is why we often find ourselves powerfully drawn to a particular mitzvah or cause and make it the focus of our lives, dedicating to it a seemingly disproportionate part of our time and energy: it is our soul gravitating to the "missing pieces" of its Divinely-ordained purpose.13

 

[CheskiChips]

The god of Christians is not the same as that of Jews. There's far more differences than similarities. The one of the Jews is more similar to that of the Muslim than the Christian...but the Muslims wouldn't know since they don't have any of the books.

 

[S.A.M.]

Actually Islam claims that Jews [and Christians] have the same God. The Quran talks a lot about Jews as People of the Book and as Bani Israel. And that Jesus was a Prophet of the same God and his Gospel teachings were changed by men.

There is also a sura that says all mankind is one nation and has received prophets at different times to guide them on their way. But that time and people change the message, which is why prophets come again and again.

 

[(Q)]

Actually Islam claims that Jews [and Christians] have the same God. The Quran talks a lot about Jews as People of the Book and as Bani Israel. And that Jesus was a Prophet of the same God and his Gospel teachings were changed by men.

There is also a sura that says all mankind is one nation and has received prophets at different times to guide them on their way. But that time and people change the message, which is why prophets come again and again.

Hence, we can expect the Quran to hit the rubbish bin in favor of a new prophet?

 

[S.A.M.]

The Jews have ditched the Torah, then?

 

[John99]

Actually Islam claims that Jews [and Christians] have the same God. The Quran talks a lot about Jews as People of the Book and as Bani Israel. And that Jesus was a Prophet of the same God and his Gospel teachings were changed by men.

There is also a sura that says all mankind is one nation and has received prophets at different times to guide them on their way. But that time and people change the message, which is why prophets come again and again.

that is fantastic. so basically we can expect one to mozy along and pillage every few hundred years or so? wow, that's just great.

 

[John99]

something how that works out.

 

[fedr808]

Since God is whatever you think it is, the Gods are different. Jews don't think God is that involved in our personal lives and there's no heaven or hell.

Actually in Judaism there is a heaven and some believe there's a hell. But at the most, hell is a dark cave where bad things come from it's not a place where you go when you die. So essentially there is only heaven where you go.

 

[fedr808]

Actually Islam claims that Jews [and Christians] have the same God. The Quran talks a lot about Jews as People of the Book and as Bani Israel. And that Jesus was a Prophet of the same God and his Gospel teachings were changed by men.

There is also a sura that says all mankind is one nation and has received prophets at different times to guide them on their way. But that time and people change the message, which is why prophets come again and again.

Welli mean considering that there are several thousand DIFFERENT translations of the Kuran....and 19 are used anyone can question what is taught in th Kuran. Atleast the Torah only has 1 translation

 

[(Q)]

The Jews have ditched the Torah, then?

Exactly, that's why your comment is irrelevant. The message of the Quran has already changed and John Smith has already been here.

 

[S.A.M.]

Welli mean considering that there are several thousand DIFFERENT translations of the Kuran....and 19 are used anyone can question what is taught in th Kuran. Atleast the Torah only has 1 translation

Have you seen the Old Testament?

Besides, I think its the flexibility that makes the Quran a living scripture. Rigidity does not cross culture and time. Everyone is free to choose the benefits of knowledge.

As the Quran declares:

[20:114] Do not be in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to you is completed, but say, "O my Sustainer! Increase my knowledge."

 

[(Q)]

Have you seen the Old Testament?

Besides, I think its the flexibility that makes the Quran a living scripture. Rigidity does not cross culture and time. Everyone is free to choose the benefits of knowledge.

As the Quran declares:

[20:114] Do not be in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to you is completed, but say, "O my Sustainer! Increase my knowledge."

Nonsense. A contradiction. Muslims MUST obey Allah, hence Muslims are forbidden to increase their knowledge beyond the Quran. People are made of clay and the moon was split in half. Qur'an 5:92 "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and beware!"

 

[S.A.M.]

Muslims are forbidden to increase their knowledge beyond the Quran

You must be getting old and your memory fading, we've already had that discussion.

 

[CheskiChips]

Actually Islam claims that Jews [and Christians] have the same God. The Quran talks a lot about Jews as People of the Book and as Bani Israel. And that Jesus was a Prophet of the same God and his Gospel teachings were changed by men.

There is also a sura that says all mankind is one nation and has received prophets at different times to guide them on their way. But that time and people change the message, which is why prophets come again and again.

Q'Ran can say whatever it wants. It was written more than a thousand years ago, Christians have changed a lot since then...Jews haven't for the most part. Today the religions are nothing alike. Considering Islam 'borrowed' much of its teachings from Judaism...much of its practices from Judaism and many of its behaviors from Judaism. Christians don't. So it's easier to similarities in Judaism and Islam over Christianity. For example; Christians are not strict monotheists at all.

 

[S.A.M.]

Isn't the Old Testament also borrowed from the Torah? I think the problem with Christianity is that it was reinvented by the Romans [through the Councils of Nicea] who combined it with their pagan Gods and made Jesus into an Italian icon.

Present day Christianity has moved very far from its origins. But then, so have present day Jews.

 

[Prospero]

Present day Christianity has moved very far from its origins. But then, so have present day Jews.

Is this surprising to anyone? After all, these religions are carried on by living people with limited lifespans. I'm sure 2,000 years from now humans will look upon the U.S. Constitution as primitive, naive, contradictory in some cases, yet with any luck a nation of people will still abide by it.

 

[CheskiChips]

Isn't the Old Testament also borrowed from the Torah? I think the problem with Christianity is that it was reinvented by the Romans [through the Councils of Nicea] who combined it with their pagan Gods and made Jesus into an Italian icon.

Present day Christianity has moved very far from its origins. But then, so have present day Jews.

Much of the Talmud was written between 2000 and 1900 years ago. It couldn't change too much.

 

[S.A.M.]

Why? Jewish scholars did not have any opinions for the last 2000 years?

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Isn't the Old Testament also borrowed from the Torah?

The Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament.

I think the problem with Christianity is that it was reinvented by the Romans [through the Councils of Nicea] who combined it with their pagan Gods and made Jesus into an Italian icon. Present day Christianity has moved very far from its origins.

It's pretty speculative to trace the origins of a religion whose followers insist was established in the first few decades of the Common Era, yet has utterly zero credible evidence until a couple of generations after all of its seminal events are alleged to have happened. Especially considering that the Romans were downright compulsive record-keepers and these were some downright extraordinary events.

But then, so have present day Jews.

Judaism has spun off the Conservative and Reform movements, and that is a phenomenon of the 19th and 20th centuries. Orthodox Jews have perhaps not moved quite so far from the origins of Judaism--at least Orthodox Jews outside of Israel.

Why? Jewish scholars did not have any opinions for the last 2000 years?

Check out Maimonedes. His influence transcended Jewry. Yet in summary all of his scholarship is regarded as an affirmation of the Talmud.

 

[CheskiChips]

Fraggle is correct; there have been no new opinions in Judaism since the giving of the Torah. The only disagreements that exist are on very minor things that only came with moving. For example, Ashkenazi won't eat rice on Passover because they consider it sustenance equal to bread, where Sephardim don't consider them equals and will eat it.

The Talmud speaks of a lot of things that never changed, it spoke about the earth being round, which Maimonides did commentary on. The Zohar discusses atoms at decent length, and Sepher Yetzirah has been around for at least 2 thousand years. The only difference is back then it was common knowledge if you were an Israelite.