Is the god of Christ the god of Jews?

Cheski:

Does anyone actually read/follow the Talmud? Or is it like the Hadith and Fiqh/Sharia, so ponderous and filled with opinions from a variety of different ages as to become pointless?

What is the Sepher Yetzirah? Is sepher like sifar in Arabic ie zero?

Also, what is the notion of God in Judaism? How do Jews describe God?

Fraggle:

Fraggle Rocker said:
The Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament.
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Okay, I was not aware of that.

It's pretty speculative to trace the origins of a religion whose followers insist was established in the first few decades of the Common Era, yet has utterly zero credible evidence until a couple of generations after all of its seminal events are alleged to have happened.
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Thats a retrospective look, I think at the time these events happened, they may have been a very local and relatively insignificant event.

Especially considering that the Romans were downright compulsive record-keepers and these were some downright extraordinary events
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Again that is retrospective. The Arabs had the same tradition of oral history and also worked with/for the Romans, yet how much did the Romans write about them?


Judaism has spun off the Conservative and Reform movements, and that is a phenomenon of the 19th and 20th centuries. Orthodox Jews have perhaps not moved quite so far from the origins of Judaism--at least Orthodox Jews outside of Israel.
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I'm only familiar with Judaism in India and to a very very ignorant extent.

Check out Maimonedes. His influence transcended Jewry. Yet in summary all of his scholarship is regarded as an affirmation of the Talmud.
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Yes, I know Maimonedes, I was questioning why there had been no addition to the Talmud in 2000 years. Was there so little that needed to be reconsidered? I suppose Reform Judaism is a movement away from orthodoxy and not considered as valid for inclusion.
 
S.A.M. said:
Cheski:

Does anyone actually read/follow the Talmud? Or is it like the Hadith and Fiqh/Sharia, so ponderous and filled with opinions from a variety of different ages as to become pointless?
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Yes, all Orthodox Jews follow the Talmud to the best of their abilities. We would have had no idea how to the schmita year this year...or any year since we've had Israel. Or the specifics of the lekhet. Or what the laws of ownership would be, or how one should attempt to go to a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_din or what qualifies as Avodah Zorah or exactly what the Sabbath Melachot are.
 
So Orthodox Jews still follow all that stuff? I heard in Chicago that they live around the synagogue because they cannot use the car on Shabath. And have electrical appliances and lights on preset timers. So you still follow all the rules of kashruth? Including the strict ones for Passover?
 
Which is the question intended by the author of this thread?
  • Is the god Christ himself believed in the god of the Jews as described in the Old Testament & more specifically, the Torah? I think the answer to this question is "Yes"

  • Is the god of the Christian church the same as the god of the Old Testament & Torah? I think the answer to this question is "No"

  • Is the god of the Christian church the same as the god of modern day Jews? "No"

  • Is the god believed in by Christ the same as the god of modern Jews? "No"
 
Whats the difference between this:

Dinosaur said:
Which is the question intended by the author of this thread?Is the god Christ himself believed in the god of the Jews as described in the Old Testament & more specifically, the Torah? I think the answer to this question is "Yes"
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And this?


Is the god believed in by Christ the same as the god of modern Jews? "No"
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S.A.M. said:
So Orthodox Jews still follow all that stuff? I heard in Chicago that they live around the synagogue because they cannot use the car on Shabath. And have electrical appliances and lights on preset timers. So you still follow all the rules of kashruth? Including the strict ones for Passover?
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They still do.

In all Orthodox communities they live around synagogues, where I live all the Orthodoxy lives within 2 miles of each other in one community. Then another community across town they all live together as well.

Some people set timers, others don't...if you really need it you can. It comes from the Talmud describing when someone may light a lamp or not light a lamp on the Sabbath.

The specific one if I recall is something to the effect of...you can't poke a small hole in an egg with oil and place it over a flame on the Sabbath. But if it was affixed above the lamp before the Sabbath began you are permitted.

In regards to Passover you have the Search for the Chametz before it begins. After it has started most people won't buy normal food from most markets. For example it is permitted to buy Coffee from non-Kosher places if it's in a disposable cup...but they don't. They also won't have bread anywhere. And they buy their Matzah from a special place that's under heavy kosher supervision. During Passover, if you're not in Israel...you're hungry.
But even in Israel, even if you don't keep Passover you can't buy food you could normally eat. They put tents over the food not kosher for Passover and no one can buy them or sell them in most places.
 
That seems odd. Surely with so many Jewish communities, you should get kosher everywhere? I can get Indian food anywhere for instance, or at least find someone to get it for me. Even in the middle of Saudi Arabia!
 
S.A.M. said:
That seems odd. Surely with so many Jewish communities, you should get kosher everywhere? I can get Indian food anywhere for instance, or at least find someone to get it for me. Even in the middle of Saudi Arabia!
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A regular Kosher kitchen (even for Corporations) has a guy called a meshgiach who has a key. He regularly comes, and he will come by randomly at any time and if he sees anything done wrong he calls them un-Kosher.

During Passover the guy is there for the entire time they are making the food, and he's the only guy who has the key...so he opens it up and closes it down.
 
This is an interesting thread topic, an issue many of us have wondered about. The Jews in the old testiment engage in genocide and war and then Jesus comes along and says "turn the other cheek". I asked a pastor I met the other day about this, and he just said, "Um,,,, well, you see.........you can't judge God by human standards or understand his motives. I asked if he could provide an answer using logic or reason and he fell back on the old
"The ways of God are not the ways of man...."
 
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I like the example of my petri dish. When the bacteria don't grow the way I want them to, I add bleach and kill them all. Not because I hate them but because the experiment failed. I can always grow some more.
 
S.A.M. said:
I like the example of my petri dish. When the bacteria don't grow the way I want them to, I add bleach and kill them all. Not because I hate them but because the experiment failed. I can always grow some more.
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That would demonstrate that your god has little more intelligence than you and fails miserably in his work.
 
Perhaps you should take a look at your last few posts and open a thread in SFOG
 
S.A.M. said:
Perhaps you should take a look at your last few posts and open a thread in SFOG
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Perhaps you should just shut up and stop telling people what to do, you've been unceremoniously and dishonorably demoted. Deal with it.
 
While I appreciate your desire to discuss me in every thread, perhaps you should just open a thread exclusively to discuss me to feed my attention whoring. :p

Do you mind if we discuss the topic of the thread over here now? Or shall we just talk about me for a few more posts?
 
S.A.M. said:
While I appreciate your desire to discuss me in every thread, perhaps you should just open a thread exclusively to discuss me to feed my attention whoring. :p

Do you mind if we discuss the topic of the thread over here now? Or shall we just talk about me for a few more posts?
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For your information, I responded to YOUR post, hence YOUR post would have been off topic based on YOUR logic.

Your attention whoring is exclusive to all threads you touch.
 
S. A. M. At the time of Christ & prior to his birth, the god of the Jews expected temple worship & blood sacrifices. Considering Sodom & Gomorrah, the flood, and the trials of Job, the god of the Jews was a fierce deity. That god was the god of a male chauvinist society.

The god of modern Jews is mellower.

Christ always seemed to me to be a reformer of the existing Jewish faith rather than aspiring to be the initiator of a new religion, suggesting that his god was more like the god of the Old Testament Jews rather than the god of the modern Jews.

BTW: Modern Christian theology seems to be the invention of Paul & other early Christians, rather than being the theology preached by Christ.
 
CheskiChips said:
The god of Christians is not the same as that of Jews. There's far more differences than similarities. The one of the Jews is more similar to that of the Muslim than the Christian...but the Muslims wouldn't know since they don't have any of the books.
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What? Why is it then that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are referred to as Abrahamic religions then?

How about the fact that Christianity and Islam both incorporate the stories from the Torah/Old Testament and all of the prophet's descriptions of God. Surely there is at least a small connection between the god of the Jews and the god of the Christians/Muslims. Certainly in my short time as a Catholic we were taught that they were the same one.....
 
The concept of one God was not a new thing to Jesus , Moses and Jesus . Long before them , there were thoughts of one God . These three men were people and pretended many things that any intelligent person will see them as a complete farce .
 
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