Is it right to put people first?

Baron Max said:
You can't know what the future might bring, yet you call it "damage". Why? Only because of your limited perspective?
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Past experience. Learning from history.

Humans killed off the dodo bird ...and it had little or no effect on anything.
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It had a rather large effect on the dodo.

Changing, or destroying, one entire ecosystem doesn't mean that another one won't take it's place. You, however, are assuming that the new ecosystem will be bad or worse. Why not think that it could be better?
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Past experience. A study of history.

Baron Max said:
I don't need to do that ...if it's not obvious to you that humans are the superior animal on the planet, then there's no hope for you.
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Superior in what way? What's your ranking system? I hope it isn't biased.

Humans will adapt ...just like we always have done all throughout history.
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Humans are more fragile as a species than you think. You take too many things for granted.

Once the planet is completely covered in concrete paving and buildings, then we'll find some other way to produce oxygen.

When the planet becomes over-heated, we'll design big airconditioning units to cool us off. When all of the plant and animal life is gone, we'll adapt to eating concrete and steel.
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You're off in fairy land.
 
Or, if you have a point to prove, you could actually explain it and back it up. But obviously, you don't have one.
 
Humans have the same right to kill and eat other animals that other animals do. We also both have a superior ability to accomplish this essential task and a superior ability to arrange to replace what we eat.

Our minds give us that superiority. It's too bad you fail to recognize that humans have a superior ability to be constructive. That's probably evidence that you lack "theory of mind."
 
First of all, I never said anything one way or the other about your point. I just wanted to know your exact meaning of superiority. I was actually willing to hear you out on it. Probably one of the only people on this thread who was. If you want to discuss this topic, which clearly you do, you can talk about it like an adult and actually discuss it rather than assume everyone here is against you and preemptively attack people.

And you don't know me at all. You don't know what I've read and you clearly don't know what I do for a living.
 
mrow said:
First of all, I never said anything one way or the other about your point. I just wanted to know your exact meaning of superiority. I was actually willing to hear you out on it. Probably one of the only people on this thread who was. If you want to discuss this topic, which clearly you do, you can talk about it like an adult and actually discuss it rather than assume everyone here is against you and preemptively attack people.

And you don't know me at all. You don't know what I've read and you clearly don't know what I do for a living.
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I'm sorry. People usually ask that question as a rhetorical question and it's usually hostile. Those who do so may lack theory of mind and a few other essentials.

I don't consider myself to be as hostile as the supporters of AR. You might have noticed that they've been calling me dirty names and threatening me with banning. You might expect and forgive some irascibility. When things are going like this, it's hard to recognize someone who sounds just like the rest.
 
MetaKron said:
I'm sorry. People usually ask that question as a rhetorical question and it's usually hostile. Those who do so may lack theory of mind and a few other essentials.

I don't consider myself to be as hostile as the supporters of AR. You might have noticed that they've been calling me dirty names and threatening me with banning. You might expect and forgive some irascibility. When things are going like this, it's hard to recognize someone who sounds just like the rest.
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Ok, it's no problem. I'm not too familiar with you yet on this forum so I really was just genuinely asking. I'm not saying there aren't ways in which humans are superior, but I was curious as to what forms of superiority this thread was centered around in your opinion so I could better contribute to the thread. Sorry you're having a crappy time here.
 
MetaKron said:
Humans have the same right to kill and eat other animals that other animals do.
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No, because other animals aren't allowed to kill and eat humans.

We also both have a superior ability to accomplish this essential task and a superior ability to arrange to replace what we eat.
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We can't replace what we eat. Each animal is unique.

Our minds give us that superiority.
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Let's leave your mind out of this; you might be embarassed.
 
James R said:
No, because other animals aren't allowed to kill and eat humans.
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Actually, other animals are allowed to kill and eat humans. Environmentalists and animal rights activists insist on letting wild animals be wild, as long as it is in a third world country, and as long as they do not eat white or Hispanic/Latino humans. Every animal has a right to defend itself as best it can, and humans are overall a lot better at self defense. A large part of our defense includes making friends with the animals.

Your "equal consideration" works both ways.
 
MetaKron said:
Actually, other animals are allowed to kill and eat humans. Environmentalists and animal rights activists insist on letting wild animals be wild, as long as it is in a third world country, and as long as they do not eat white or Hispanic/Latino humans.
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Nonsense. Dangerous animals are invariably restricted to wildlife reserves and the like. They don't roam the cities.
 
James R said:
Nonsense. Dangerous animals are invariably restricted to wildlife reserves and the like. They don't roam the cities.
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Then you can show me pictures of the twelve foot tiger-proof fences around substantial portions of the Sundarbans. Variables won't, constants aren't.
 
The Sundarbans contains no less than three national parks. It is a World Heritage listed nature reserve.

Which just goes to prove my point.
 
James R said:
The Sundarbans contains no less than three national parks. It is a World Heritage listed nature reserve.

Which just goes to prove my point.
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Where are the fences and what are they made of?

All of these areas where they try to conserve lions and tigers are heavily inhabited by humans.
 
How many people have been eaten by lions or tigers in, say, the past year?
 
Reference?

I think the actual number is closer to 3 or 4, perhaps 10 at a stretch and 50 if you take the largest estimate.

Er... remind me what the relevance of this is again.
 
James R said:
Reference?

I think the actual number is closer to 3 or 4, perhaps 10 at a stretch and 50 if you take the largest estimate.

Er... remind me what the relevance of this is again.
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The relevance is that conservationists force us to allow large dangerous predators to roam around loose with no fences or anything to keep them from attacking and killing humans. This is putting animals before humans, and they do the exact opposite in any place that is predominantly white European, Latino, or Hispanic. In places like Spain, the U.S., and the U.K. they clear out the predators and keep what's left under strict control. Africa, Asia, and India are asked to let them run around loose.

I read about the mortality rate somewhere. So far the only reference that I have found claims that about a thousand humans are killed each year by wild lions. There was a news story about a year ago that said that around 200 people are killed by lions in Africa each year.

Here's one reference. It's not that good:
http://www.largelions.net/Record+of+Lion+Attacks.1773.htm
 
Pandaemoni, I really think that that kind of defense of the dignity of plants and animals is inspired by contempt and hatred for humans, not by any love of life. A person cannot truly love animals and hate humans.
 
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