Is it right to put people first?

[Enmos]

Cellar Door, did anyone ever tell you about the fact that more trees are planted by humans than are cut down? This can be a dangerous trend too because we need our clear areas and other plants besides trees need room to grow.

And did anyone ever tell you that you can't really replace thousands of years old rainforest with newly planted trees. The ecosystems in such places are utterly destroyed.

 

[Baron Max]

And did anyone ever tell you that you can't really replace thousands of years old rainforest with newly planted trees. The ecosystems in such places are utterly destroyed.

But who owns those trees? And why do you think that you should be able to tell them what to do with them?

When one ecosystem is "utterly destroyed", another ecosystem takes it's place. That's been happening on Earth for millions of years. What's new?

Baron Max

 

[Cellar_Door]

Cellar Door, did anyone ever tell you about the fact that more trees are planted by humans than are cut down? This can be a dangerous trend too because we need our clear areas and other plants besides trees need room to grow.

Let me paint you a picture:

We have vast expanses of ancient woodland and rainforests.
These places are a fantastic habitat for a diversity of wildlife and plants.
Large areas are cut down, the ecosystems within them collapse.
Even more trees are planted as we need more wood.
The ecosystem that was there before does not reappear magically.

 

[Enmos]

But who owns those trees? And why do you think that you should be able to tell them what to do with them?

When one ecosystem is "utterly destroyed", another ecosystem takes it's place. That's been happening on Earth for millions of years. What's new?

Baron Max

What's new is that it now happens at such a rate that new ecosystems hardly do form.. it takes forever to get the same biodiversity again.

The trees are of no one, but we need to use our head, and think about the long term results of our actions.

 

[Baron Max]

What's new is that it now happens at such a rate that new ecosystems hardly do form.. it takes forever to get the same biodiversity again.

Check the definitions ...you'll find that that is exactly what evolution means.

The trees are of no one, but we need to use our head, and think about the long term results of our actions.

Well, I agree with you to a point. Where you and I seem to differ is ...just who tells who what to do and how to do it? "Our" actions we should watch and be careful. But what about the actions of others? Are "we" going to force them to see things "our" way?

Baron Max

 

[Enmos]

Check the definitions ...you'll find that that is exactly what evolution means.

I do not accept any human meddling as an example of evolution. You can forget about that.

Well, I agree with you to a point. Where you and I seem to differ is ...just who tells who what to do and how to do it? "Our" actions we should watch and be careful. But what about the actions of others? Are "we" going to force them to see things "our" way?

Baron Max

It's a very difficult matter and I don't have any answers to it I'm sorry to say.
On the other hand, countries like the US seem awfully quick to intervene in other county's matters when it suits their purpose.

 

[MetaKron]

Human lives are more important than those fussy little details about which grubworms repose under which tree.

 

[Enmos]

Human lives are more important than those fussy little details about which grubworms repose under which tree.

You mean human comfort.

 

[MetaKron]

Human comfort is important. I don't know why you have trouble seeing that humans are a product of the ecology and thus entitled to share in it.

 

[Enmos]

Human comfort is important. I don't know why you have trouble seeing that humans are a product of the ecology and thus entitled to share in it.

Oh but they are, on both accounts. We just have to be smart about it as to not destroy everything, including ourselves.

 

[MetaKron]

Oh but they are, on both accounts. We just have to be smart about it as to not destroy everything, including ourselves.

There is nothing smart about the so-called animal rights and environmentalist movements. If there were we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[MetaKron]

Humans are important enough to suffer through some extinctions. The funny thing is that people like to keep all sorts of animals. We tend to act to preserve animals more than we tend to destroy them. Even some of the environmentalists should give themselves some credit as long as they plant trees and other plants instead of crying about the ones we're about to lose. People who keep animals in captivity do the animals a big favor. The enviromentalists have done a lot to endanger animals like the rhinocerous, the cheetah, and the tiger.

 

[Enmos]

There is nothing smart about the so-called animal rights and environmentalist movements. If there were we wouldn't be having this discussion.

What ? I am not affiliated with any of them..

 

[Enmos]

Humans are important enough to suffer through some extinctions.

Uh.. what exactly do you mean by this ?

The funny thing is that people like to keep all sorts of animals. We tend to act to preserve animals more than we tend to destroy them.

No, we don't. And keeping pets is hardly preserving a species.

Even some of the environmentalists should give themselves some credit as long as they plant trees and other plants instead of crying about the ones we're about to lose.

Thousands of years old rainforests and their biodiversity within are irreplaceable.

People who keep animals in captivity do the animals a big favor.

Yea right :bugeye:
That's about the biggest pile of crap I've come across in a while.

The enviromentalists have done a lot to endanger animals like the rhinocerous, the cheetah, and the tiger.

Explain.

 

[Baron Max]

Thousands of years old rainforests and their biodiversity within are irreplaceable.

Possibly. But what comes after it might be even better for the human race. You act like you can predict the future ...and we all know that isn't true.

The human race has been evolving since the first ape walked upright on the African plains. He's still evolving. And part of that evolutionary process is fucking up the Earth if he wants to or can.

Oh, sure, we can complain, ...but that's what humans do best, better even than fucking up the Earth.

Baron Max

 

[James R]

Who made up those "rights"?

There has been a long history of human progress in the recognition of rights, going back thousands of years.

Rights come directly from the muzzle of a gun!

You're a few thousand years out of date.

When one ecosystem is "utterly destroyed", another ecosystem takes it's place. That's been happening on Earth for millions of years. What's new?

Some ecosystems are more valuable than others.

 

[Baron Max]

There has been a long history of human progress in the recognition of rights, going back thousands of years.

So ...all humans agree to those rights and abide by them?

You're a few thousand years out of date.

You're wrong, James, without the guns, law enforcement would be nothing but a joke! The very thing that makes a legal system work, including those "rights" you so love, is the strength of the enforcement. And that always means guns!

Look at the problems in the Congo right now, James. The UN peacekeepers don't have enough power, guns and ammo, to stop the rebels. So the rebels are killing at will, whenever they want to, ....without regard to your precious "human rights" bullshit.

Nope, "human rights" come from the muzzle of a gun.

You know it and I know it, James, you just don't like to admit it, that's all.

Baron Max

 

[Asguard]

Baron Max

your an idiot, most westen countries dont have armed police most of the time. Australia and the US are in the minority with that regard. The british police for one group are unarmed for the most part even when aresting murderes

 

[quadraphonics]

You're confusing being unarmed with not having a gun. Very few places have police that are actually unarmed, although many police do not carry guns (even in America).

Aside from which, exactly what weapons the street cops carry with them at what times is a red herring. In all cases, the power of a police force is derived from its dispensation to utilize force. If an unarmed cop tries to arrest you, and you shoot him, what do you think happens?

 

[Baron Max]

Baron Max, your an idiot...

I don't think you're allowed to say such things on sciforums.

...most westen countries dont have armed police most of the time.

Where did you get that info? Do you have any proof of that statement? As far as I'm aware, UK is one of the few in the world where the police don't carry firearms. I think you should check on that again.

Baron Max