Is Hell for Real?

stuff057 said:
Well there has been other reportings of the same creature in other areas like maryland.

Two points: 1)the Loch Ness Monster was an admitted hoax... the famous photo turned out to be the guy's labrador retriever out for a swim. 2) isn't "the same creature" a bit of an assumption anyway?

stuff057 said:
it could possibly be from the dinosaur age and survived somehow.

Logical speculation... if it hadn't been an admitted hoax.

stuff057 said:
we know only around 50% of the creatures that live in water. so it's possible.

Not that I'm agreeing to the "50%" figure, but there is definately a number of unknown species in the world's oceans, rivers, and lakes. But these species are mostly smaller than a guppie. I think we've pretty much seen all of the species that are larger than a john boat, simply becuase of the ecconomics of marine life. The larger they are, the more food they consume, the more likely they are to turn up where people are (fishing as well).

stuff057 said:
and the thing with hating god relates to the people i was talkin bout that turn atheists the way i said. look at earlier posts.

The point he was trying to make, successfully I might add, is that an a priori assumption that atheists "hate god" is illogical and based only on the fact that atheism runs counter to your own cult dynamics and "hatred" is the only logical way to resolve it and maintain your own superstitions.

But you made the point best in the previous post, you can't hate the Loch Ness monster, because you cannot deny that it might exist.

But as an agnostic atheist, I can tell you that hatred for a god isn't possible since, while I the possibility exists that there is a god or gods, I assume that there is not. Hating your god would mean that I believe that a god exists, and I'm pissed off at him for some injustice or perceived wrong.

If atheists "hate" anybody, its the various believers that demand that they're particular cult have unfair favor in some facet of society or when they attempt to "evangelize" those that already have established and equally valid belief systems.
 
SnakeLord said:
2450 Hwy 121 N. Grapevine, TX 76051? Telephone number: 972-471-5700?

Hey... that's a local call for me. I could maybe go by and visit, show my Student ID and get some information for an anthropolgy paper at the same time. :)
 
Medicine Woman said:

M*W: Woody, I was a dyed-in-the-wool, bible-believing, scorch-the-earth christian for many years. Then I found the truth. Christianity is evil, but you people are too dumb and in denial to see your evil addiction.

No you weren't a Christian, medicine woman, you are a habitual liar. You like the power of deceit, and you have it down to an art. It gives you power. I see through it. Your dreams about nature and the earth remind me of someone:

medusa_slithering_sm_nwm.gif
 
Woody, ye'r back! Ya just missed Wo-- I mean stuff057.

No you weren't medicine woman, you are a habitual liar.

Do you have proof that she never was a Christian, and that she's a habitual liar?

You like the power of deceit, and you have it down to an art. It gives you power. I see through it.

Nice Straw Man.

I insist that you look at the link.
 
stuff057: Will you explain to me what excorcisms are if there is no god?
*************
M*W: No god is required for people to become obsessed/possessed with something. In fact, the whole idea of a god is a delusion in need of exorcising. Thank the PTB (powers that be) for sciforums and the wonderful work it does in stamping out the erroneous concepts of god and xianity.
 
I was writing something in word, when I grabbed the mouse, to put in a letter I'd missed, I accidently pressed the mouse button, and suddenly the screen changed to this, and I saw your avatar woody it's uncanny, now I understand you.http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-ps02.html the other uncanny thing was the word I missed a letter in was delusional.

do you know if this happens again, I am going to have to start believing in your god, not really just joking on that last sentence.

and just take a look at the first few lines of the two discriptions, that's uncannily you too.

"Criterion A of Schizophrenia requires two (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):

1. delusions
2. hallucinations
3. disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
4. grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
5. negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition"



"This group of disorders is characterized by the development either of a single delusion or of a set of related delusions which are usually persistent and sometimes lifelong. The delusions are highly variable in content. Often they are persecutory, hypochondriacal, or grandiose, but they may be concerned with litigation or jealousy, or express a conviction that the individual's body is misshapen, or that others think that he or she smells or is homosexual. "these are all things you've done or said.
weird !.
 
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stuff057: excorcisms....theyre not fake.i had one done at my house because i believe there was a demon that got here somehow. i have storys to back this up but im not goin to type them becuz i dont feel like it so u jus have to trust me. o yea in my storys i wasnt the only person to see wat happened there were atleasts 2 other witnesses. since then nothing has happened.
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M*W: I believe you. Exorcisms are real. Delusions are very real in the minds where they manifest. Why do you think the demon came to your house? Did you receive any kind of message from the demon? Sometimes angry angels of light can be mistaken for demons, and they can also be exorcised but shouldn't be messed with for fear of bad spiritual repercussions. Further, the only clergy qualified to exorcise a demon is a Catholic Jesuit priest. I assure you, if you did not have a Catholic Jesuit priest to do the exorcising, you are still under the control of this demon. Demons can live within families for years and years without making an obvious presence. Then one day, usually when there is a pubescent girl in the home, the demon appears. I am hoping that you don't have a young daughter in your home. You may have to send her away to a convent to rid your house of the demon. Most likely, this demon has been with your family for years but has only recently started to do his work. I urge you to contact your local Catholic Dioscese to find the nearest Jesuit priest to immediately clean and purify your house and everyone in it once and for all. When there is one demon there, you can rest assured he has his legions with him. I wish you peace.
 
Woody: No you weren't a Christian, medicine woman, you are a habitual liar. You like the power of deceit, and you have it down to an art. It gives you power. I see through it. Your dreams about nature and the earth remind me of someone:

medusa_slithering_sm_nwm.gif

*************
M*W: So you believe you have been given the power to judge others? How can you be so sure I wasn't actually a xian? I've got papers to prove it: my baptismal certificate, my photo with Pope John Paul II in The Vatican during his first ever audience as Pope, my confirmation certificate, my certificate to teach catechism... what more could you possibly want? Bottom line, I used to believe that Jesus died for my sins until I found out otherwise and fought the idea for years. BTW, to associate me with a serpent is probably the highest honor I could receive. You need to do some reading into the symbolism of the serpent. The serpent is a wise woman, a healer, total feminine spirit. The serpent is called HWWH. Eve is called HWWH. The feminine spirit is called HWWH. Now, just how close is that to YHWH? Get back to the forum after you've done some serious reading.
 
Woody said:
Hell is a place where Hitler, Jack the Ripper, serial killers,devil worshippers, and haters of God (athiests) get to spend their eternity.


I am an atheist. Not a satanist, but an atheist... without god.
atheism is the lack of belief in god, or gods, devil or demons.
Having crawled up from the primordial ooze, my progenitors long ago decided that to allow myths and crutches into their world would weaken the mind, bend the spine, and empty the pockets. So, for the record, I do not hate any mythic god, I do not fear any mythic god, I do not laugh at any mythic god; it is not a consideration, as the god-concept is not a consideration.
I have, however, been known to laugh at those that would follow a myth or a fantasy, who allow themselves to be subjugated by a shadow, a book, or a church; and willingly surrender their minds to a self-styled prophet or a illusion.
So if you're of a superstitious or sanctimonious bent, don't blame me if you don't like whats being said. It's not scary, it is the way I choose to live. So practice your self-determination and admit to yourself that if you disagree, you have no recourse... There are plenty of places on the Web that will not challenge your beliefs, prod you to question your intellectual shackles, or at least make you laugh. So stop deluding yourself and go find someplace comfortable and safe, If true happiness can only be achieved through a state of delusion, you're going down the right path.
 
Woody doesn't need lessons in disdain, derision, hatred and bitterness from us atheists. He needs lessons in love and compassion from Jesus people like Lori_7 and Jenyar.

Just my humble.
 
Snake er, I mean medicine woman.

I figured you'd like the post of your god. Medusa is an interesting study, though mythological. You are like her character. Read up on it.

you said

M*W: So you believe you have been given the power to judge others? How can you be so sure I wasn't actually a xian? I've got papers to prove it: my baptismal certificate, my photo with Pope John Paul II in The Vatican during his first ever audience as Pope, my confirmation certificate, my certificate to teach catechism... what more could you possibly want? Bottom line, I used to believe that Jesus died for my sins until I found out otherwise and fought the idea for years. BTW, to associate me with a serpent is probably the highest honor I could receive. You need to do some reading into the symbolism of the serpent. The serpent is a wise woman, a healer, total feminine spirit. The serpent is called HWWH. Eve is called HWWH. The feminine spirit is called HWWH. Now, just how close is that to YHWH? Get back to the forum after you've done some serious reading.

The pope is not my father.

The popes presided over the grand inquisition, where many believers and nonbelievers alike were put to death to seize their property. Their methods of torturing a confession out of someone go down in history as one of the most brutal: pouring molten lead down someone's ear canal, roasting their feet over a fire. All this was done with the excuse of "blasphemy."

You joined the harlot church, and I do not blame you for leaving. I believe there will be some catholics in heaven, but you chose the worst of the lot.

Just in case Snakeman is reading this post:

I do not take it lightly in calling someone a fool according to scripture. The laws you mentioned were written for the lawless, not for believers. You were the first to start the "greater fool" discussion.

In conclusion, why do atheists even bother to come to a religion forum, when it's all make believe to them? And if anyone even dares to disagree then gang up and roast them.

By the way I don't know who that other poor person was that tried to express an opinion, but I am all too familiar with the response.

Pavlos, In your dimension I can understand why you think I am insane. My sister used to think the same about me when she was an agnostic. After many years of prayer for her by me, she became a christian, and I thank God. Many people believe there is a hell, does that make them all insane? And tell me Pavlos, what would you do if you really believed there is a hell like I believe? Would you sit quitely and say nothing? Yes, I am eccentric, but I am also highly analytical, which requires rational thinking. You have not lived my life. So before you size up your profile, just remember that I have a wife to whom I have always been faithful, an 8 year old daughter, we go to church, I obey the law, I don't smoke, drink or do drugs, I don't read porn, I live a decent, moral life, and I have been a christian for 23 years -- I am no christian come lately. Christ has made a huge difference in my life, before I met Him -- I was the opposite of what I just described. Which Woody do you prefer?

Skinwalker -- Ever heard of an atheistic satanist? Sounds like atheists have a lot in common with them. Why don't you tell an athiestic satanist he's full of crap. They are a cult too, take a look for yourself.

http://www.x-ville.8k.com/satanism.html

Keep telling yourself there is no such place as Hell (Sheol) when you slip into eternity. Everyone is just dead alright. Satan is waiting for all infidels there and he is one hungry bastard. You don't have to go there. Please don't.

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Woody said:
In conclusion, why do atheists even bother to come to a religion forum,

If they're at all like me, they're interested in the anthropological aspects of religion. For me, examining the christian cult is a bit like watching gorillas in the mist for Dian Fossey... fascinating stuff!

Woody said:
Ever heard of an atheistic satanist? Sounds like athiests have a lot in common with them.

A logically unsound concept, since accepting the existance of Satan would imply that one accepts the existance of the god that created him. You should really re-think that, since it is precisely the type of thing that a person of limited intellect and critical thinking ability might consider. I don't think that describes you, does it?
 
woody said:
Pavlos, In your dimension I can understand why you think I am insane. My sister used to think the same about me when she was an agnostic. After many years of prayer for her by me, she became a christian, and I thank God. Many people believe there is a hell, does that make them all insane? And tell me Pavlos, what would you do if you really believed there is a hell like I believe? Would you sit quitely and say nothing? Yes, I am eccentric, but I am also highly analytical, which requires rational thinking. You have not lived my life. So before you size up your profile, just remember that I have a wife to whom I have always been faithful, an 8 year old daughter, we go to church, I obey the law, I don't smoke, drink or do drugs, I don't read porn, I live a decent, moral life, and I have been a christian for 23 years -- I am no christian come lately. Christ has made a huge difference in my life, before I met Him -- I was the opposite of what I just described. Which Woody do you prefer?
well you did ask, so here goes in my opinion it's impossible to be analytical and religious, it's an oxymoron.
anybody who believes in a sky daddy, and neverneverland, who cowers in fear of nothing, is delusional,(delusion: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence) the actor peter o'toole once said "I prayed for 20 years, until I realized I was talking to myself."
I am please you are happy with your life, I am happy with mine.
I did once believe in heaven and hell, but I've grown up since and put away childish things.
if something is wrong, and a billion people believe it's right, it's still wrong.
we size each other by what we write, and sometimes wrongly as you are doing with your mixed up believe about atheists. after all you have been told, by many members that atheist dont believe in god/gods devils or demons heaven or hell. so cant be satanist can they or god haters, which only goes to prove your acting crazy.
I don't smoke, drink or do drugs, I don't read/watch porn,( thats not to say I not a normal guy ) I live a highly moral life, but I not a xian, there is nodeity required.
I feel I have much more respect for life, then any xian, I believe this is the only one we get, I just hope one day, you xians will come to know this, and not continue to kill in the name of you god,therefore not depriving, anybody of there one and only chance of life.

you ask who I would prefer, well you can be xian who debates religion and religious concepts on this forum, or the xian who preaches, or the old you, I would prefer the xian that debates please.

Ask yourself whether the dream of Heaven and Greatness
should be waiting for us in the grave, or whether it should be ours here and now and on this earth,-Ayn Rand
 
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Just in case Snakeman is reading this post:

I must admit, it's truly a marvellous thing. You have this uncanny ability to change someones internet nick as if you're making some kind of important statement. What that statement might be exactly is beyond my grasp, and while the general activity would usually signify some attempt at derision or insult, in this instance it has most certainly fallen flat on it's face.

If at all possible though, I would ask if you could dispense with the fun and games and apply a little maturity. The same would go for your wonderful animated gifs, which while suited to pre-teen websites, don't quite fit on a forum where adult discussion is the main focus.

The laws you mentioned were written for the lawless, not for believers.

This could turn out to be a rather convenient escape clause if it wasn't quite so clearly ludicrous. You and I are both aware of this, and while it might aid you to make light of your mistake by lying about it to me, what is the benefit of lying to yourself, because that is afterall who you are lying to. You don't need to make excuses to me, I'm a complete stranger to you, but if you cannot be honest to yourself at the very least, you should start to question why.

A simple: 'Yes, I have done something I should not', or 'my apologies, I'm not perfect', would have come across as a lot more honest and the issue would have been finished right there. It is however normal for someone who has dug a small hole to proceed in digging a larger one.

Let me know if you truly believe the quote you have left and we can discuss it further. Think about it before you answer though, and remember that the hole doesn't lead anywhere but down.

You were the first to start the "greater fool" discussion.

I apologise for my errors.

In conclusion, why do atheists even bother to come to a religion forum, when it's all make believe to them?

The reasons will differ from person to person, and very often the starting reasons are to ask some simple questions about doubts that person might have concerning one of a gazillion beliefs. Generally those questions never get answered.

Overall you'll probably find this is more of a lack-of-religion forum, (being mainly atheist/agnostic). Of course, we do have great tolerance for people of all beliefs, but retain the right to question them. The same cannot be said in reverse. I cannot even count the amount of sites that have refused me access based solely on my internet nickname. It seems the word 'snake' is a bit of a no-no with the religiously minded. That's not to mention the amount of religious sites that ban anyone who doesn't have 'I love jesus' as his forum sig. Christians are not a very tolerant bunch of people, which is quite odd given the words of jesus.

As for me, I simply came here to invite you all to my evolution service next Sunday.

And if anyone even dares to disagree then gang up and roast them.

That does happen, but generally because you ask for it. When you make ludicrous statements and fail on all counts to answer any questions posed to you, it can irritate people. This can escalate further when the person being asked a question changes forum account to escape it, changes back to escape questions posed to his alter ego, makes groundless claims without being able to back them up, and cannot manage a sorry when he does make mistakes, (and yes, we all make mistakes in life - it's all about how we handle things after the mistake has been made).

Further to which, everyone has the right to opinion, and is entitled to give it here. As a result you will see many people making posts. It isn't "ganging up", but simply everyone excercising their right to freedom of speech.

It's most likely you will ignore all of this post and revert back to your method of posting animated gifs, but I sincerely hope you can move beyond that and gain something of value from what I have written. That is upto you.
 
Dear SnakeLord,

"SnakeLord" is not your real name. "Woody" is my real name, and it is the only name I use. With all due respect you are not "Lord", and hopefully you are not a "snake", but that is the name you chose for yourself. I do not create straw men. I can appreciate your attempt at reconciliation. I do not hold grudges. One of the things I don't like is when people in addition to yourself, write off the men in the bible as just "superstitious simpleton's" in your words, as though you know more than them. You don't, I don't, and nobody else does. Faith is a matter of the heart, not academic knowledge.

Hell is an offensive subject to start with. I believe it exists and I don't want anyone to go there. My feeble attempt to present it in pictures is the best way I know of when words don't work. The subject steps all over sensitivities, and I don't see how that can be avoided.

I am not perfect, I am not better than you, only I am forgiven of my sins which are indeed many.

As I said before faith is a matter of the heart, not intellect.

I quote the bible on this subject:

Romans 1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.


24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


A "God" is anything you put in place of the creator for your belief system -- wealth, your own abilities, some other God, you name it. In the end they all pass away. God knew man would come up with evolution, and look at what the result is or can be. Anything goes with evolution, there is no bottom to which a man can descend without a moral boundary. Who decides what that boundary is on the eternal scale, ourselves being the most biased source?

The evidence of a God you are looking for stands right in front of you -- the universe speaks for itself. The more you learn about it the less you find out you know about it. This is because the creator you don't believe in is infinitely intelligent, and he made it by design.

He made the universe so anyone can look at it and decide for himself. Knowledge of God comes from the heart, not from man's limited intellect.
 
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Woody I know one thing from my time as a christian, you are not bound for heaven.
 
Woody:you seem like a nice person, someone I can relate to, will you send all your money to me, oh and have you got a kjb for me to borrow, I will post up an address later, it must be all your money as I need it ok, thanks
 
jeeez, what a load of goody woody two shoes 'dont drink, dont smoke, dont look at porn'......tempted to ask 'so what DO you do then'? hope the reply is SEX....?

as for your hell pics Woody. they made me larf. i mean ...what with the skeletons. to move a skeleton it needs muscle. it dont make sense skeletons without muscle. so they are not scary, but ludicrous, and the devil was over the top

why not show an image of a nazi cooncentration camp. now that Is hell

Hell DOEs exist. when you are down doesn't your mind become sensitively negative, and you think of sad things?
right, well when you are hallucinogized, then those sad feeligns become images. so for example, you can start seeing images of suffering, like concentration camp victims......all forms of suffering. THAt is hell

you ALSO can have jyous ecstatic feeings, and those images are like heaven. so the potentia for positive and negative and an included middle abound

as i've said, what the patriarchs do is S E P AR A T E the positive and negative energies. they ABSRACT them, and then dogmatize the belief that you can have one without the other, and in the Christian case the favoured abstraction is the [positive, isn't it. the 'City of God' with all-the-time-light, and streets paved with gold, bla bla.al;l positive goody goody ness, no naszty shadows or nasty sex, and DEFO no porno, oh me goodness know. and no dog turds, and no bad smells, and i suspect no ones even farts already

whereas you hell is shit smelling, and all the time dark, and....get the picture

so, to summarize then. YEs there is the potential for hellish and heavenly experience, but is part of a dynamic contiuum. REAL lifedeath is this continuum, NOT stasis as devised by the split-minded patrarchal beliefs
 
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