Is Hell for Real?
- Thread starter Woody
- Start date
Fascinating thread. From the point of view of a budding anthropologist, anyway. At first glance, it appears to be one big flame-fest, but after really examining the tone and content of the posts it becomes so much more. One can see the superstitions of the believers in the christian cult demonstrate the true threat they feel at atheism.
The threat isn't from the atheists themselves, but the logical arguments that they (here and in other places on the internet, books, other media, etc.) provide that cultists are unable to properly defend. But it isn't this lack of defense that illicits the vehement repsponses from cult followers like woody & stuffy, its that they find themselves questioning their own faiths.
Oh, they'll certainly deny that this occurs, cult followers rarely admit even to themselves that this occurs, yet it is true. There simply is no logical reason for the level of vehemence and beligerence, except to bolster their own egos by being beligerent on a webboard or other similar outlet.
But don't worry woody & stuffy, the questions you are asking within yourselves are valid: is there really a god? If there is, does my cult have it right?
The real thing you have to consider is that there are hundreds of religions all over the world and in nearly every society on the planet. Each of them believes that theirs is the "true faith" and that it is most correct to be a member of that religion. That the christian cult spread like a virus is logical, considering which civilizations of the ancient world (in the West at least) had the dominating technologies. The fact that a majority of the world's populations are either Judeo-Christian or Islamic doesn't mean that the Buddhist isn't right or the Navajo worldview isn't the correct one. Each religion is equally correct (or, conversly, equally incorrect).
The threat isn't from the atheists themselves, but the logical arguments that they (here and in other places on the internet, books, other media, etc.) provide that cultists are unable to properly defend. But it isn't this lack of defense that illicits the vehement repsponses from cult followers like woody & stuffy, its that they find themselves questioning their own faiths.
Oh, they'll certainly deny that this occurs, cult followers rarely admit even to themselves that this occurs, yet it is true. There simply is no logical reason for the level of vehemence and beligerence, except to bolster their own egos by being beligerent on a webboard or other similar outlet.
But don't worry woody & stuffy, the questions you are asking within yourselves are valid: is there really a god? If there is, does my cult have it right?
The real thing you have to consider is that there are hundreds of religions all over the world and in nearly every society on the planet. Each of them believes that theirs is the "true faith" and that it is most correct to be a member of that religion. That the christian cult spread like a virus is logical, considering which civilizations of the ancient world (in the West at least) had the dominating technologies. The fact that a majority of the world's populations are either Judeo-Christian or Islamic doesn't mean that the Buddhist isn't right or the Navajo worldview isn't the correct one. Each religion is equally correct (or, conversly, equally incorrect).
stuff057 said:
Ah, so ya agree that ye'r wasting yer time?
stuff057 said:
Let me ask you this then: Do you hate leprechauns?
After all, who could hate them? They're short and red-haired and green-eyed and oh so cute. And if ya catch one, it leads ya to its pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and oh isn't that loverly?
stuff057 said:
It doesn't take much time and effort to understand that. It's just unnecessary time and effort. It's much easier to read something if it's written in properly punctuated, correctly spelt, grammatically correct, clearly written English. Plus, it makes you look smarter, and people can take what you're saying more seriously.
stuff057 said:
Yes, I'm happy that ya were successful at placing one at the end of a question like ye'r supposed to. Now was that really so hard, typing a question mark? I bet ya could do it again.
stuff057 said:
Yay, another question mark! That makes me all warm and fuzzy inside!
By "spirit", do you mean "ghost" or "soul"? Or do ya mean something else?
If ya meant "ghost", I accept that there's a possibility that they exist.
If ya meant "soul", I sort of equate it with consciousness, and I believe it's a result of the chemical and electrical reactions that go on in our brain.
If ya meant something else, please explain yer question.
stuff057 said:
Um . . . why?
stuff057 said:
No, we think God doesn't exist, and you confuse that with hating Him but don't realize it.
It is amazing, if not a tad upsetting, to see someone so apparently content to close their eyes and ears to everything around them, to pretend they cannot see or hear the solutions that have been given. This is of course unless it is not pretence, in which case my heart truly weeps.
Luckily I do know of a way to resolve this issue right here, right now. The question is, are you willing to listen this time?
Stuff057: Do you hate the loch ness monster?
Kindly take some time to reflect upon the question and answer as sincerely as possible. It is not a hard question to answer, nor is it a trick question. At the very most it merely provides you with an opportunity to see inside the mind of an atheist. If you are so sincere about wanting to save them, the least you can do is start to understand who it is you're trying to save.
If you cannot answer the question, then perhaps it is worth giving consideration to the possibility that it is you who hates. You hate those who think differently to you.
I await your answer or response.
I'm going to type like this for Athel, but i do agree that i question my faith. I question my faith all the time. I was an atheist once, but when you look at the three dominant religions they all have the same god. That's why I believe it's the right faith, and by ghosts I mean people who have past away. And have gone to the after life.
Will you kindly answer my question?
Perhaps you need an incentive, and as such I shall answer your question first, but in doing so will need to ask some questions in return for your consideration.
Firstly I would ask whether you have ever witnessed an excorcism, (other than in the movies). Without having seen one your beliefs concerning it could be far from the actual truths.
We must also take into account that excorcisms are not exactly christianity specific. Some jungle tribes practice very similar things. For instance, there is a tribe that take some special jungle-drugs, dance around a fire to their gods and then rub trees. In doing so, the person with cancer ends up going into remission.
Would that imply that rain gods exist and that dancing naked around a fire is a viable method with which to save people from death?
We must also take into account accurate statistics concerning failures and successes, as well as detailed analysis of the people involved. Alas there are no statistics, and aside from a few urban legends, there are no witnesses either. When there is a witness, it always seems to be a "friend of a friend", which as we all know, is highly unreliable.
And finally: Not being able to explain the cause of something, is not valid reason to then make one up and assume it as absolute undeniable truth, or indeed to latch on to the nearest sufficient explanation that never requires questioning merely to satisfy your need for answers.
Nobody said life was easy, and trying to find an answer to all of lifes questions in three simple words, is failing on your responsibilities as a human being.
I hope this helped. Now, if you would be so kind, could you answer my question from the last post? Thank you.
Perhaps you need an incentive, and as such I shall answer your question first, but in doing so will need to ask some questions in return for your consideration.
Firstly I would ask whether you have ever witnessed an excorcism, (other than in the movies). Without having seen one your beliefs concerning it could be far from the actual truths.
We must also take into account that excorcisms are not exactly christianity specific. Some jungle tribes practice very similar things. For instance, there is a tribe that take some special jungle-drugs, dance around a fire to their gods and then rub trees. In doing so, the person with cancer ends up going into remission.
Would that imply that rain gods exist and that dancing naked around a fire is a viable method with which to save people from death?
We must also take into account accurate statistics concerning failures and successes, as well as detailed analysis of the people involved. Alas there are no statistics, and aside from a few urban legends, there are no witnesses either. When there is a witness, it always seems to be a "friend of a friend", which as we all know, is highly unreliable.
And finally: Not being able to explain the cause of something, is not valid reason to then make one up and assume it as absolute undeniable truth, or indeed to latch on to the nearest sufficient explanation that never requires questioning merely to satisfy your need for answers.
Nobody said life was easy, and trying to find an answer to all of lifes questions in three simple words, is failing on your responsibilities as a human being.
I hope this helped. Now, if you would be so kind, could you answer my question from the last post? Thank you.
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Excorcisms are the rituals of some christian cults in which a "demon," or mythological being of evil intent, is removed from the body of a participant/believer.
Its fictional, but people believe in it in the same way Haitians believe in VooDoo, or the Azande believe in poison oracles.
Its fictional, but people believe in it in the same way Haitians believe in VooDoo, or the Azande believe in poison oracles.
Fascinating... why would you think that it is possible for there to exist a monster in the Loch Ness?
excorcisms....theyre not fake.i had one done at my house because i believe there was a demon that got here somehow. i have storys to back this up but im not goin to type them becuz i dont feel like it so u jus have to trust me. o yea in my storys i wasnt the only person to see wat happened there were atleasts 2 other witnesses. since then nothing has happened.
Well there has been other reportings of the same creature in other areas like maryland. it could possibly be from the dinosaur age and survived somehow. we know only around 50% of the creatures that live in water. so it's possible. and the thing with hating god relates to the people i was talkin bout that turn atheists the way i said. look at earlier posts.
So you're saying that if you didn't believe in one, you'd hate it? Bizarre.
Perhaps you do not know this yet, but trust is something that must be earnt. I will give you the opportunity to earn my trust, and it doesn't take a lot on your part. Here we go:
Kindly provide me with names of those who performed the excorcism and a general location so I can contact them. Thank you.
I agree, they're very real to the believer... as I said, so is VooDoo and poison oracles to the Haitians and the Azande respectfully. However, that doesn't mean that either of these beliefs genuinely exist. What you witnessed may have been fantastic and beyond the norm, but it was not outside the realm of reality. It just seemed that way to a 'believer."
In otherwords, you're deluded. I hate to be the one to break it to you.
No... I take that back. I do kind of enjoy being the one to break it to you. Shamelessly.
In otherwords, you're deluded. I hate to be the one to break it to you.
No... I take that back. I do kind of enjoy being the one to break it to you. Shamelessly.
That's actually a lie. Here is what you said:
You did not say, or indeed even imply, that the atheists you were referring to were ones that used to be christians. Instead you just lumped us all in the same category and called us haters.
Would you care to apologise for including me in your description? I have been an atheist since birth, and as a result, (in agreement with your last statement), I cannot be considered a 'god hater'. Do you agree?
stuff057 said:
This is very much appreciated.
Thank you.stuff057 said:
That doesn't prove anything. The Norse god Oðinn (Odin), the Greek god Zeus, and the Roman god Jupiter are all essentially the same god. They were all dominant religions as well.
The three major religions all have the same god because they are all related to each other. They are only relatively slight variations of the same religion. For example, one of the differences between Christianity and Judaism is that the former has a bigger holy book and says the Messiah has come.
stuff057 said:
I can accept that there could be an afterlife that people go to when they die.
stuff057 said:
Exorcisms are rituals performed on a person, place, or thing, in which it is thought an evil spirit dwells, to drive out that spirit.
This isn't necessarily an exclusively Christian practice, if that's what ye'r thinking.