Is Hell for Real?

Woody said:
Snake er, I mean medicine woman.

I figured you'd like the post of your god. Medusa is an interesting study, though mythological. You are like her character. Read up on it.

you said



The pope is not my father.

The popes presided over the grand inquisition, where many believers and nonbelievers alike were put to death to seize their property. Their methods of torturing a confession out of someone go down in history as one of the most brutal: pouring molten lead down someone's ear canal, roasting their feet over a fire. All this was done with the excuse of "blasphemy."

You joined the harlot church, and I do not blame you for leaving. I believe there will be some catholics in heaven, but you chose the worst of the lot.
I'm appalled by this, not because I'm a former Catholic but because I'm a human being. The maintaining of 17th Century hatred and revulsion against Catholics in this day and age is not just wrong and misguided, it is as deeply abhorrent as anti-Semitism or any kind of race hatred. But it does give us further guidance into the kind of Fundamentalist church you appear to have thrown your lot in with. Woody, Christianity should be a religion of love, not hatred, of tolerance, not bigotry.
Woody said:
Just in case Snakeman is reading this post:

I do not take it lightly in calling someone a fool according to scripture. The laws you mentioned were written for the lawless, not for believers. You were the first to start the "greater fool" discussion.

In conclusion, why do atheists even bother to come to a religion forum, when it's all make believe to them? And if anyone even dares to disagree then gang up and roast them.
Many of us are interested in religion even though we don't espouse it. As to roasting, the words "pot" and "kettle" are whirling round my mind at the moment - don't be offensive in your posts and some people (I won't say all) will treat you with courtesy.

Woody said:
By the way I don't know who that other poor person was that tried to express an opinion, but I am all too familiar with the response.
Was that me, by any chance? :)

Woody said:
Pavlos, In your dimension I can understand why you think I am insane. My sister used to think the same about me when she was an agnostic. After many years of prayer for her by me, she became a christian, and I thank God. Many people believe there is a hell, does that make them all insane?
Nobody's calling you insane because you believe in Hell and God and the Devil. They are calling you insane because over and above your religious beliefs you demonstrate serious irrationality. But I'm not condoning the kind of posts you've attracted which makes you respond this way. From my point of view it sounds like your sister has been brainwashed into accepting your dangerously irrational world view, which makes me sad - but I accept that I could be wrong about that.

Woody said:
And tell me Pavlos, what would you do if you really believed there is a hell like I believe? Would you sit quitely and say nothing? Yes, I am eccentric, but I am also highly analytical, which requires rational thinking. You have not lived my life. So before you size up your profile, just remember that I have a wife to whom I have always been faithful, an 8 year old daughter, we go to church, I obey the law, I don't smoke, drink or do drugs, I don't read porn, I live a decent, moral life, and I have been a christian for 23 years -- I am no christian come lately. Christ has made a huge difference in my life, before I met Him -- I was the opposite of what I just described. Which Woody do you prefer?
I think we'd all prefer a Woody who wasn't hypocritically living a "real" life of love and fulfillment and lawabiding while at the same time coming online and demonstrating hatred and bitterness. How do you square your great life with your loving wife and daughter with your statement that you couldn't wait for this stinking life to be over?

Woody said:
Skinwalker -- Ever heard of an atheistic satanist? Sounds like atheists have a lot in common with them. Why don't you tell an athiestic satanist he's full of crap. They are a cult too, take a look for yourself.

http://www.x-ville.8k.com/satanism.html
Whoever created that site doesn't know what he's talking about. And you've made a logical error - "All satanists are atheists" does not mean that "all atheists are satanists". His satanic cult may be "atheistic" in some narrow technical sense in that they don't literally believe in the Satan their cult is named after, but I think that all the atheists here would reject any kind of cultic activity as being either irrational or as an excuse to behave in immoral ways that we don't find particularly attractive.

Woody said:
Keep telling yourself there is no such place as Hell (Sheol) when you slip into eternity. Everyone is just dead alright. Satan is waiting for all infidels there and he is one hungry bastard. You don't have to go there. Please don't.
You still don't get the concept of not believing - if I don't believe in hell, then your statement that continuing not to believe in it will lead me straight there is meaningless. Many Christians are so because they believe in the life eternal with Christ. Conversely they find it hard to square a supposedly all-loving and all-merciful Creator with eternal punishment in Hell for all those people whose only crime is not believing in Jesus (ie the majority of the world's population throughout all history). So, taking their cue from "the wages of sin is death", isn't it easier to say "You will die, you will cease to exist" - which is what we believe anyway, rather than threaten us with a concept that many convinced Christians find profoundly blasphemous against God Himself.

Please try to accept other people's nonbelief and express your own faith in less aggressive and irrational terms and perhaps we'll all get along better. We're here to discuss religious belief - we're not here to be preached at.
 
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duendy said:
as for your hell pics Woody. they made me larf. i mean ...what with the skeletons. to move a skeleton it needs muscle. it dont make sense skeletons without muscle. so they are not scary, but ludicrous, and the devil was over the top

There are lots of things that move without having "muscles".

why not show an image of a nazi cooncentration camp. now that Is hell

You're right...
 
Hello Woody stiring thing up are we LOL

I see you have medicine woman figured out.. new age, lucifer serving anti-Christ.

One thing though woody I must tell you that your view of Hell is, well is catholic... :eek: please don't hit me...

Ummm satan is not in the lake of fire yet and he will just be another one of the suffering when he is cast into the lake of fire at the final judgement.

All Praise The Ancient of Days
 
IF I believed in abrahams god then yes I absolutely would hate him.
I feel satan is less evil.
Satan merely suggests we don't betray our human instincts. God is the wierd and creepy one.
I'd be inclined to believe the bible was anti-earth propoganda if I believed in god, and that god didn't actually invent the earth but rather is claiming to have in order to lead the people down a deadly trail in the ultimate cosmic conspiracy against nature.
Satan is merely a voice of reason that has been villainised in order to make being evil (like jesus) seem all the more reasonable.
Even the atheists in this thread follow the evil influence of jesus and god, and generally disparrage satan and the earth. Look at how much people donated to tsunami victims. These donations were jesus influenced and anti-earth, and I bet most money was donated by atheists.

I think satan and the earth are the good guys, god and jesus are bad guys. The bad guys are just winning at this stage in history. Earth is a long story and hopefully the good guys will prevail in the end.
 
Dr Lou Natic said:
I think satan and the earth are the good guys, god and jesus are bad guys. The bad guys are just winning at this stage in history. Earth is a long story and hopefully the good guys will prevail in the end.

What bad has Jesus ever done?
 
Yorda said:
What bad has Jesus ever done?

well, yorda, that quesy says it all

let me rephase it..."what bad has the mythical character of Jesus ever done?"

the myth presumes a human can be all-good. 'Jesus' was apparently not even conceived like the rest of us riff raff MFs begotten in the sweaty loins of lustful lusty lustmakin...oh nooooo. And then when he gorws up, do we hear of any sheenanegins, even a fumble behind the old stables....? no.

actually, even though i understand it as myth. i DO like the bit where J hangs out with the outcastes of society--hopefully NOT preachin--and puts down hypocrites

but you see THE main no no of the Jesus myth in comparison withe more ancinet pagan myths from where much of the Jesus myths' motifs werer appropriated, is that he was made to be SO not-human. SO sexless, so without sin. thus the christians had to create the scapegoat of the Devil. Jesus' denied shadow or twin!
 
well you did ask yorda.
“Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. Matthew 10:21
Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching. Matthew 11:20
Jesus explains that the reason he speaks in parables is so that no one will understand him, “lest . . . they . . . should understand . . . and should be converted, and I should heal them.” Matthew 13:10-15

Jesus explains why he speaks in parables to confuse people so they will go to hell. Mark4:11-12
He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” Matthew 15:4-7

And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life Matthew 19:29jesus say no family, you must leave them to follow him.

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark 7:9

Jesus says that those who have been less fortunate in this life will have it even worse in the life to come. Mark 4:25
Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. Clearly Jesus could have simply sent the devils out, yet he chose instead to place them into pigs and kill them. This is called animal abuse. Mark 5:12-13
Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing figs, even though it was out of season. Jesus must not be as smart as Christians would have us believe, for he was retarded enough to do something this silly. You’d think the son of god (god incarnate) would know that trees don’t bear fruit in dry season. Mark 11:13

Luke 12:47 Jesus okays beating slaves.
 
duendy

I don't think the "mythological character of Jesus" has done anything evil. You believe religions and Gods are fantasies because you're so proud of yourself. Humans are able to be all-good, even if humans today are very far away from perfection. But once there lived humans on earth who were greater than the humans we see today.

fahrenheit 451

How sad that you don't understand God. Appearances can be illusions. One's actions don't always reveal one's true intentions. God has a caring heart.
 
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Read some religious scripts, know more about yourself, work hard, don't give up, wait, and it will be given to you. How can you ask Me to provide evidence for You? Find it yourself, you don't believe me anyway.
 
Yorda said:
duendy

I don't think the "mythological character of Jesus" has done anything evil.

d__ i know you dont yorda. did you read the quotes from the poster abover? that's GOOD?

You believe religions and Gods are fantasies because you're so proud of yourself.

d__i just try and help myself and people see through the false. i am not anti-deepness, anti-spirituality. i am anti-bullshite. when people are made to believe they can become a cone-sided thing, like 'perfect'. they just haven't thought it through enough. NOTHING can be perfect. that's the whole beautifful living and ying meaning. it's a continuum. if i say it is perfect and imperfect that is not it, cause i am suing terms that have been abstracted, like 'perfect' and 'imperfect'. these two terms are abstracts. they dont exist in reality. reality is something else entirely. it is a living process. a WONDER

Humans are able to be all-good, even if humans today are very far away from perfection.

d___ plese explain how a human can be all-good. without mentioning your idol, Jesus...how do you mean all-good?

But once there lived humans on earth who were greater than the humans we see today.

d__yes, so you believe cause you have invested all your trust in a book full of words words words...

fahrenheit 451

How sad that you don't understand God. Appearances can be illusions. One's actions don't always reveal one's true intentions. God has a caring heart.

Of course there is a DEEP sensitivity. it is incredibly deep, and intelligent. Nature is intelligent. But when one posits myths about all-good is when this sensitivity goes outta the wondow. life is much more complex than that
 
"SnakeLord" is not your real name.

And knowing this to be the case, I wonder why it seemingly causes so much distress for you. You can gain the title of 'lord' quite easily these days, (you can buy lordships over the internet), but you seem to regard the title as something intentional against your god, which it can't be, because I don't believe in him/her/it.

One of the things I don't like is when people in addition to yourself, write off the men in the bible as just "superstitious simpleton's" in your words

Although those are not my words, they are reasonably sufficient. I would be interested to know though, how would you regard the writers of other religious texts, the writers of the Enuma Elish for example?

as though you know more than them. You don't, I don't, and nobody else does.

This is simply wrong. We do know more than them. While we should look back and be proud of those that came before us for overcoming all the extra struggles they had in life, they didn't know all that much when it came to life and the world. In general we do respect them. Look at all the history man has gathered and keeps: the declaration of independance, the magna carta, the novels of Mark Twain. All these people came before us, and the one clear constant is that as time progresses, people know more.

The problem arises when someone is drawn into fanaticism, and regards every word of some old writing as an undeniable truth, which is naive and extremely dangerous.

Faith is a matter of the heart, not academic knowledge.

The 'heart' is irrelevant here, and your sentence would be more accurate written as such: faith is a matter of lack of knowledge.

Hell is an offensive subject to start with.

Seemingly only to you, because from what I can gather, the majority here don't believe in it.

I believe it exists and I don't want anyone to go there.

Perhaps you should talk to the boss about it then. Perhaps your prayers at night should be about not sending the overwhelming majority of humanity to hell. I know that when you sit down and think about it, you wouldn't want to do that. You would shudder at the thought of sharing your heaven with the unbelievers and bad doers of the world. When it really comes down to it, you do want people to go there. Your entire sentence is false, and not one that truly lies in your.. "heart".

Perhaps that is the ultimate test of humanity. Do you care enough about your fellow humans, regardless to their ills, to pray god to save them, or will you sit by and happily watch them burn?

Perhaps your god is just sitting there waiting for you to care enough about humanity that you will pray to him to save them, just like Abraham did when he spoke to god about Sodom.

Will you try?

My feeble attempt to present it in pictures is the best way I know of when words don't work.

What your pictures show is that you are almost positively gleaming at the concept of the majority of your kind suffering for all eternity. It seems to stir alive something deep and dark within your mind that wants us to burn.

I am not perfect, I am not better than you, only I am forgiven of my sins which are indeed many.

Religions very own get out of jail free card. Steal a car, kill a man and they can't touch you for it.

It is such an overwhelmingly cowardly notion it brings a shudder to my spine. When I do something wrong I deal with it personally, and resolve it to the best of my human ability. That is how a man gets through it. Men do not rely on scapegoats.

As I said before faith is a matter of the heart, not intellect.

Well you are right in saying that intellect plays absolutely no part in it. These are all clues and signs to the problems with it, and yet you say it as if it's a good thing. That is truly worrying.

I quote the bible on this subject:

Romans 1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

And I will quote Jefferson.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty to throw off such government and to provide new guards for their future security.

Spamming biblical quotes at me is as useless as me spamming this to you. While it's an interesting look into the words people wrote a long time ago, it serves no other purpose than that. Especially when it concerns a being that I don't actually believe in. You might aswell quote from the Chronicles of Narnia.

The evidence of a God you are looking for stands right in front of you

The evidence of a leprechaun you are looking for stands right in front of you.

We can both play that game.

Knowledge of God comes from the heart, not from man's limited intellect.

So in other words: It is that limited intellect that makes one find faith. I agree with you completely.
 
ex-christians are as bad as ex-atheists and ex-smokers in their vitriolic reactions to their former loyalties

Woody,
If God created life, then death was created in that same instant.


If you want to be precise about it, hell is the name for an ancient Judean garbage pit. In that sense, it was real, and not a place I'd like to hang out.

The biblical hell might be a ok, according to Dante, at least if you were a good person, but just don't accept God (or Jesus? ...how does that go?). Ghandi would be there, along with Lao Tzu, Buddha, Aristotle, Plato, Galileo, Darwin, all the great non-and-other-theistic thinkers of all time.

What's so great about heaven? You get to sit on a cloud with a bunch of other do-gooders and sing his praises- oh, joy.
 
duendy

d__ i know you dont yorda. did you read the quotes from the poster abover? that's GOOD?

Yeah, I didn't see anything evil or wrong there. Those quotes are just a little misunderstood.

NOTHING can be perfect. that's the whole beautifful living and ying meaning. it's a continuum.

Well, I'm not sure if I've ever seen anything imperfect in this world... It's interresting that you say that "nothing" is perfect, because if something is perfect, it's "nothingness". Things are imperfect if we look at them from a personal, limited, viewpoint. I think that if you've ever loved someone, you've experienced perfection.

d___ plese explain how a human can be all-good. without mentioning your idol, Jesus...how do you mean all-good?

You're all-good if you never do anything evil. Like the trees and animals.

d__yes, so you believe cause you have invested all your trust in a book full of words words words...

No, I don't believe in everything the religions say, I only believe what sounds nice and true for me. Actually I've only read a few pages in the Bible.

life is much more complex than that

I think life is very simple, but it can be very complex too, for some people.
 
You're all-good if you never do anything evil. Like the trees and animals.

So... it is ok when I act like a parasite? Or fight with someone over his place/food/status and kill him in the process. It is also allowed to have sex with whomever I want, and just like some plants I can grow on other beings sucking them dry... what a great set of morals that would make.
 
If I had to spend heaven with the likes of James Dobson, Falwell, and Ann Colter, I'd end up in hell anyway for murdering their souls, might as well save a trip and just go there directly.
 
Thank you Yorda, it's a blessing to see someone has a heart in this place.

Anyone that is appaled with my statement about roman catholic church being a harlot should read about the grand inquisition:
Roman Catholic Inquisition

It turns my stomach, and the child molesters in the catholic ministry still turn my stomach. We see who the catholic church looks out for -- their own hide. The grand inquisition finally ended in 1962. Pope Paul finally forgave Galileo for having a science theory, though he was incarcerated until he died. A lot of good that does him now!

Snakelord,

You just breezed right through my post and stated your opinion, and here we go again on the dumber than thou trail. I say the universe is evidence of a complex designer, you say it is just a freakish accident where something just blew up and happened. Tell me Snakelord, Have you ever seen order come from a huge explosion? Sounds like Hubble's rubble to me. Order doesn't come from disorder. I am an engineer. Order goes to disorder. I believe Lord Kelvin had it right on the 3rd law of thermo -- all energy degrades to a lower level. I've studied it, and I agree. Kelvin, by the way believed in God (smart man). I have not heard one physics instructor explain how the 3rd law of thermo, which I can demonstrate, can be in harmony with the big bang theory -- which you believe in though you never saw it. Show me how the big bang theory works or get off your pseudoscience pedistal. I'm all ears and I'm waiting for a pure physics discussion smart guy. Let's keep it at the physics level, instead of your junk science department.
 
Duendy, From a scientific point of view that is nonsense. Disorder is chaos.

Example: I can run a power plant using Kelvin's law.

Example: You can not bring yourself to a better order by strapping yourself to an H-bomb and letting it explode. The bang is pretty big. Perhaps if the bang was an even bigger like a really big bang -- that would do the job right?

I can use Kelvin's law I have no practical purpose for your nonsense.
 
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