Is Hell a Physical Reality?

[(Q)]

By using your spiritual sense or answering a divine call

Neither of which anyone can honestly claim since no evidence has come to light that such a mechanism exists within the human body. Ones interpretations in this matter are solely that of the individual, who is unable to discern the differences based on the non-existence of those mechanisms.

By coming to an assent of the intellect that the teachings of the other faiths do no represent the true nature of reality, whereas the true teaching explains things much better.

By your logic, all religions are to be rejected as none represent the nature of reality.

If you dont get either of those, I would say that one should be as pious as possible in the religion you were born into...

Therefore, if you question religions and find none meet your expectations for representing the nature of reality, one should simply give up thinking and questioning and believe whatever they're being spoon-fed.

Clearly, that would be the ultimate in ignorance and sloth.

 

[Lawdog]

in your last sentence, you say not to choose atheism, however you reasoning is atheistic to all other religions but your own, which seems to me to be a bit hypocritcal.
also on answer 1 you say spiritual sense, there is none we only have five anything else is, imagination is it not.

Indeed, perhaps you are correct. Following ones spiritual feeling could be confused with imagination. Perhaps it would be better to put yourself under the authority of scripture first, interpreted according to ancient tradition.

and answer 2 you state your point by saying it's an assent of the intellect, how can this be if it comes from the imagination. therefore this would mean the teaching of any faith, do not represent the true nature of reality.

Imagination and intellect are two different faculties. Intellect is the reasoning power, whereas Imagination fasions images to supply the intellect with aids for reasoning and judging. Imagination is also used for creative purposes, such as the arts. Religions that are false rely heavily on creative novelties in their doctrines. The Catholic faith does not have novelties in doctrine, but it remains unchanged.
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[Lawdog]

Therefore, if you question religions and find none meet your expectations for representing the nature of reality, one should simply give up thinking and questioning and believe whatever they're being spoon-fed.

Clearly, that would be the ultimate in ignorance and sloth.

I did not make that conclusion. Surely one must at least follow the natural law which affirms that good must be done and evil avoided, the God (or gods) must be worshipped, propitiated appeased and thanked, this is in accord to every natural religion.

If one is unable to draw proper conclusions about the divinity of Christ or accept the doctrines handed down to him, the requirement of following the natural law still maintains.

Also, you seem to say that being spoon fed truths is bad. If those truths are self evident or of Tradition, it cannot be bad to accept them on authority and it is not counted as sloth. It would be sloth not to attept to understand why they are true, apply them in your life, and discover what implications they have.

 

[mustafhakofi]

Indeed, perhaps you are correct. Following ones spiritual feeling could be confused with imagination.

it cant be confused it is imagination.

Perhaps it would be better to put yourself under the authority of scripture first, interpreted according to ancient tradition.

why? what earthly good could reading a passage from an ancient book, and which book the qu'ran, the bible, the vegas, or easops fables.

Religions that are false rely heavily on creative novelties in their doctrines. The Catholic faith does not have novelties in doctrine, but it remains unchanged.

however jews say they are right, hindus say there right, muslims say there right, you all say the same things about each other and you all believe you are right.

I did not make that conclusion. Surely one must at least follow the natural law which affirms that good must be done and evil avoided, the God (or gods) must be worshipped, propitiated appeased and thanked, this is in accord to every natural religion.

but why, I dont have to appease my father I dont have worship him, i dont have to cower in fear before my father, my father being the loving person he is would not want anybody cowering to him no man would and no god should, if I was a god, i would'nt want it I would just be quitely pleased.

Also, you seem to say that being spoon fed truths is bad. If those truths are self evident or of Tradition, it cannot be bad to accept them on authority and it is not counted as sloth. It would be sloth not to attept to understand why they are true, apply them in your life, and discover what implications they have.

but if they are just one version of a possible truth, which is so.
then it would be foolish to accept them without challenge, even if there from the highest authority, you take nobodys word for it.

 

[(Q)]

Surely one must at least follow the natural law which affirms that good must be done and evil avoided...

If its a 'natural law,' what do you need gods for?

the God (or gods) must be worshipped, propitiated appeased and thanked, this is in accord to every natural religion.

Religion is NOT natural - if it was, we would all be born with knowledge of a single god who would be part of our natural world. Most god worship requires blind faith in a cruel and ruthless supernatural entity.

They can hold their own dicks and appease themselves, thank you very much.

If one is unable to draw proper conclusions about the divinity of Christ or accept the doctrines handed down to him, the requirement of following the natural law still maintains.

Why bother with gods if the 'natural law' is all that matters?

Also, you seem to say that being spoon fed truths is bad

Truths? Give me a break. Your so-called truths are certainly not mine.

If those truths are self evident or of Tradition, it cannot be bad to accept them on authority and it is not counted as sloth.

If tradition calls for human sacrifices demanded by authority, do you willingly oblige?

It would be sloth not to attept to understand why they are true, apply them in your life, and discover what implications they have.

I have attempted to do so already and have found no truths. Instead, I find contradiction, deception, cruelty, myth, ignorance and the incredible delusion that life is but a stepping stone to an afterlife. Absurd in the extreme.

 

[Lawdog]

These replys are extremist and so attempt to narrow truth into pharasaical rules without discerning the general meaning.
For example:
1) WORSHIP has nothing to do with cower
2) human sacrifice is not good, and I already said DO GOOD AVOID EVIL

 

[mustafhakofi]

These replys are extremist and so attempt to narrow truth into pharasaical rules without discerning the general meaning.for example:1) WORSHIP has nothing to do with cower

but your god insists, that you worship it , or suffer is wrath, so they would be connected, would'nt they.

2) human sacrifice is not good, and I already said DO GOOD AVOID EVIL

but your god has done it numerous times, and what was Catholicism doing during the dark ages.
these replies are not extremist there fact. telling the truth is not narrowing the truth.
the truth hurts does'nt it.

 

[Woody]

Q said: Religion is NOT natural - if it was, we would all be born with knowledge of a single god

Woody says: I believe all of us are born with a natural need for and knowledge of God. The Bible teaches it.

Jesus said: Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Woody says: Think back to the time you were a small child -- when you were open-minded and had no prejudices -- when you did not know right from wrong. Small children typically know God.

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musta says: but your god insists, that you worship it , or suffer is wrath, so they would be connected, would'nt they.

Woody says: Look at Jesus, was he that demanding when he was here on earth? If you want to see God's good side look at Jesus. If you want to see His bad side -- do nothing.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Small children typically know God.

No they don't. I had to be taught that there is such a thing as jesus and god. Then I was taught I cannot draw arrows in jesus in the comic book they gave me. They explained it to me in a way i guess, but I didn't think it was satisfactory. I was used to drawing arrows into comic book characters with loads of blood coming out of the wounds. I didn't think jesus was that special. He made for a lousy comic book.

 

[Woody]

Spurious, how old were you? A small child is 5 or younger. Go back before you had blood-lust in your system. Blood-lust comes with a loss of innocence.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Obviously you have never dealt with small children.

 

[Woody]

Woody says: I was one and I have a 9 year old.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Ever seen a 3 year old handle a pet, or another 3 year old for that matter?

 

[(Q)]

WORSHIP has nothing to do with cower

Deuteronomy 28

"Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. The Lord shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. The Lord shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish....

Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long; and there shall be no might in thine hand. The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: So that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.... Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.... Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the Lord shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.... Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the Lord bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed."

human sacrifice is not good, and I already said DO GOOD AVOID EVIL

Genesis 22:1-10
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.... And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son."

 

[(Q)]

I believe all of us are born with a natural need for and knowledge of God. The Bible teaches it.

You are either lying or you have not read the bible, which does not teach that we are born with a natural need for and knowledge of gods.

But of course, we've got to know that you'll say literally anything in an attempt to make a point.

 

[Lawdog]

Q, You misuse scripture and twist its meaning. The curse of God is against those who do that very thing.

Worship elevates Man, it brings him into the divine realm. It is not cowering.

Abraham knew that God would not have him kill his son, as we read, Abraham says before he goes up, "we shall return..."
The purpose of the story is to show that God does not wish men to offer human sacrifice like the Baalites and Moloch worshippers. Abraham is found worthy before God because He trusted the Lord enough to go as far as he did. God stops him, He does not want human sacrifice.

 

[Woody]

Spurious says: Ever seen a 3 year old handle a pet, or another 3 year old for that matter?

Woody says: OK, that approach didn't work for you. Let's look at it another way -- little children loved Jesus when they saw Him, and they still do.

 

[Woody]

Woody originally said: I believe all of us are born with a natural need for and knowledge of God. The Bible teaches it.

Q says: You are either lying or you have not read the bible, which does not teach that we are born with a natural need for and knowledge of gods.

Woody says: You are here on this forum because you have a need for God. Other atheists need God as well, but they just don't want to admit it.

Bible:

And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased, And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

Woody says: Breast feeders are pretty young aren't they Q?


Bible:

Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Woody says: Remarkable -- God can impart spiritual wisdom to a small child that a PHD can't learn on his own.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Well, babies conveniently cannot speak and tell us about this truth.

 

[(Q)]

The curse of God is against those who do that very thing.

Then you agree with me.

The chapter I refered, which cannot be described as anything other than a rant, goes on and on, detailing at great length the countless horrible punishments that will ensue if the Israelites falter: cannibalism (complete with parents eating their children), plagues and pestilences, slavery, death in battle, madness, blindness, expulsion from their land, a life of constant fear, oppression and woe; in short, every sort of disaster, pain and catastrophe imaginable. And these miseries and disasters will not be doled out by God with a heavy heart, saddened by the chastisement he must inflict on the people he loves; on the contrary, he will do it gladly, and "rejoice" to destroy them (28:63).

God stops him, He does not want human sacrifice.

That the sacrifice was not actually carried out does not change the moral revulsion we should feel at this episode. What kind of god would demand a man prove his obedience by murdering his only son? And more so, what kind of man would obey such a command? Abraham has been held up as an archetype by Judaism, Christianity and Islam alike, but is this really the sort of behavior we should strive to emulate - the willingness to kill in God's name? Had I been in Abraham's place, I would have thrown away that knife and let Jehovah know, in no uncertain terms, that I would never serve any deity who demanded such a price. And had I been in God's place, that is exactly the response I would have rewarded.

But no. The God of the Bible rewarded - blessed, actually - a man who would have slit the throat of his son on command. Evidently, this is the quality Jehovah values - not humanistic morality, not an unshakable respect for human life, but a willingness to lay one's conscience aside and blindly obey. Regrettably, Abraham's spiritual heirs have carried on his legacy of killing in obedience to what they believe to be a divine decree, and the tragic results are the bloodshed and terrorism that still rages in places like the Middle East today.