Is God unhappy with muslims.......?
- Thread starter marv
- Start date
Here's an interesting item from the Yemen Times.
Dear Bells a lesson in reading comprehencion is in order!!.
I didn't claim that the US should not send any aid to the victims. I only point out that we should not send just a check! and let these governments deal with their own aids, too many fucking times the people get screwed, and get neither food, health, or any aid from their own leaders, when a check for several millions arive from world community. The US has helped some of the countries in SA, Africa, & other nations what they have done is sent a check, and the victims still get screwed because it's taken over by their own governments for their benefit and not the victims.
It is knieve to think that there are honest people running these poor nations, that much of the loot, will not be pocketed by the elite, while the victims get screwed. There are already stories coming out how the rich got quicker aid, supplies, and taken care off faster, then the poorer victims. Aid yes, good. A blank check made out to some shmuck that will not help his own people NO!!.
Sending foreign aid in cash under normal circumstances is normally a total waste. Sending cash in the midst of chaos following a natural disaster is even more idiotic as it makes it just that much easier for the corrupt officials to pocket the money.
http://www.etherzone.com/2004/sent122904.shtml
Godless.
I didn't claim that the US should not send any aid to the victims. I only point out that we should not send just a check! and let these governments deal with their own aids, too many fucking times the people get screwed, and get neither food, health, or any aid from their own leaders, when a check for several millions arive from world community. The US has helped some of the countries in SA, Africa, & other nations what they have done is sent a check, and the victims still get screwed because it's taken over by their own governments for their benefit and not the victims.
It is knieve to think that there are honest people running these poor nations, that much of the loot, will not be pocketed by the elite, while the victims get screwed. There are already stories coming out how the rich got quicker aid, supplies, and taken care off faster, then the poorer victims. Aid yes, good. A blank check made out to some shmuck that will not help his own people NO!!.
Sending foreign aid in cash under normal circumstances is normally a total waste. Sending cash in the midst of chaos following a natural disaster is even more idiotic as it makes it just that much easier for the corrupt officials to pocket the money.
http://www.etherzone.com/2004/sent122904.shtml
Godless.
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Bells
Staff member
K? Did you even read the post that I quoted you from? Now where in that post did you make any of the statements you've just made. Here is your post in its entirety to allow you to reacquaint yourself with your own words...Godless said:
Godless said:
Hmmm.. you were saying?
Ermm Godless, that is what you said in that post. The opening paragraph said it all...
"But I don't think the US should be the sucker to come and rescue the whole fucking world when something bad happens!!."
Now where does it say there that the US should not just send a cheque? Your exact words were that the "US should not come to the rescue". Hmm am I missing something? Actually, I think I should ask you that question.. Are you missing something?
I think a lesson in writing and remembering what you wrote is in order Godless.
This happened a week ago, help efforts have just started to even reach them - and some ''loving'' Americans are already whining that we are doing to much? Yikes!
When the USA is down on its knees, which history shows *always* happens eventually to any nation, I hope they then don't expect any compassion?
When the USA is down on its knees, which history shows *always* happens eventually to any nation, I hope they then don't expect any compassion?
Not to be redundant, but...cool skill said:
Muslim population density map:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/maps/muslimtext.html
Outline map of Southeast Asia:
http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/seasoutl.htm
Do you think these maps or the statistics are lying for some reason?
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
Bells reposted your entire post a few lines above the single sentence you are objecting to. Hardly taking it out of context.Godless said:
Your responses do little to persuade the thoughtful reader that you give much of a damn about the tsunami victims. If that is not the case then you need to work on your communication skills.
okconor said:
You mean "if you were a muslim who was effected by this tragedy" I think things such as this usually do raise alot of questions doubts for the faithful. I can just imagine what those people in Banda Aceh must have been thinking when the first aid they saw was from US militay helicopters.
okconor said:
Some tragic photos to enforce the point all that was left standing in these 3 muslim indonesian towns was the mosque (not surprising as they were the only solidly built buildings)
Kuede Teunon
Banda Aceh
and Meulaboh in Aceh
I have also read of a marian catholic basilica in India that was the only uneffected building in a small town but can't find any photos. For those who believe these occurances will either be seen as a miracle or a proof that there is no god (maybe some will believe they were worshipping the wrong god). Whatever the outcome for these people we can only hope and give whatever aid we can.
Bells
Staff member
Godless
The first paragraph of your post set up your post Godless. It was an introduction as to why humanitarian aid should not be forthcoming. The rest of your post reiterated that opening paragraph as to why American's should not give aid because 1) they hate you, 2) you don't get the same thing when something bad happens to you, 3) because you are criticised for your efforts.... boo hoo.. sob sob.. blah blah...
The link you then provided as a form of back-up for your view which you didn't state aside from that one little line of " Good article on my point of view", discusses something completely different to what you had said in your actual post. Again I might suggest that you actually write posts that mean what you say, because your actual post said nothing about offering loans, instead it was a whine as to why America should do nothing.
The link you so lovingly provided suggests that low interests loans should be given to the countries involved, as they were for the people in Florida after the hurricanes. Hmmm making third world countries take out a "low interest loan at 3.187" when they will probably not be able to pay it back considering that:
1) They are third world countries who already have an immense amount of debt..
2) Half of their infrastructure has disappeared and in countries like Thailand where tourism is one of their main sources of income and their tourist resorts have been destroyed.. pray tell Godless, how would they pay back that low interest loan? And how would you collect if they don't pay it back? Cease all trade agreements you have with them and make them dig a bigger hole for themselves than with the loan you has already dug for them?
3) What the hell kind of attitude is it to offer humanitarian aid to a nation and then expect them to pay it back with interest, even if it is low interest? Would make the country and the people suggesting such a scheme a bunch of arseholes wouldn't it?
4) What makes you think that even with the offer of a "low interest loan", that the rich in power won't skim some off the top for themselves?
Godless, here is something you need to understand. One does not offer humanitarian aid with the thought that it needs to be repaid with interest.
Path
People who have survived this disaster who do believe will most probably ask the question of why God has forsaken them. Watching the news the other day, I saw a report where a priest in Sri Lanka saying that it will be difficult to make the believers understand that God does not hate them, because they have lost everything and many members of their families. What these people have to understand is that this was not an act of God, but an act of nature that did not pick them specifically. But I guess for people who believe so strongly in God that nature is God, they will want to blame someone or something. This disaster will either make the believers turn more to their God or turn away from their God.
Having said that, the parents of my friend and her husband who had been missing in the area (they are thankfully safe and well and had been volunteering with the Red Cross and the people they had contacted at the embassy to tell us they are safe had failed to do so until last weekend, resulting in a panic here at home), who were atheists went to church on Sunday to thank God that their child and her husband are safe and well. Strange I guess.
Godless... dear dear Godless.. your whole post was a whine about how Americans are hated and about why you should not help the victims because they hate you. I had read the link provided and frankly it was a joke and a further waste of time because it too was a long winded whining session.Godless said:
The first paragraph of your post set up your post Godless. It was an introduction as to why humanitarian aid should not be forthcoming. The rest of your post reiterated that opening paragraph as to why American's should not give aid because 1) they hate you, 2) you don't get the same thing when something bad happens to you, 3) because you are criticised for your efforts.... boo hoo.. sob sob.. blah blah...
The link you then provided as a form of back-up for your view which you didn't state aside from that one little line of " Good article on my point of view", discusses something completely different to what you had said in your actual post. Again I might suggest that you actually write posts that mean what you say, because your actual post said nothing about offering loans, instead it was a whine as to why America should do nothing.
The link you so lovingly provided suggests that low interests loans should be given to the countries involved, as they were for the people in Florida after the hurricanes. Hmmm making third world countries take out a "low interest loan at 3.187" when they will probably not be able to pay it back considering that:
1) They are third world countries who already have an immense amount of debt..
2) Half of their infrastructure has disappeared and in countries like Thailand where tourism is one of their main sources of income and their tourist resorts have been destroyed.. pray tell Godless, how would they pay back that low interest loan? And how would you collect if they don't pay it back? Cease all trade agreements you have with them and make them dig a bigger hole for themselves than with the loan you has already dug for them?
3) What the hell kind of attitude is it to offer humanitarian aid to a nation and then expect them to pay it back with interest, even if it is low interest? Would make the country and the people suggesting such a scheme a bunch of arseholes wouldn't it?
4) What makes you think that even with the offer of a "low interest loan", that the rich in power won't skim some off the top for themselves?
Godless, here is something you need to understand. One does not offer humanitarian aid with the thought that it needs to be repaid with interest.
Path
As you say, many of the houses of worship withstood the force of water because they are solidly built. But the people who may have sought shelter in those buildings were most probably washed away. I read about a Christian orphanage in Sri Lanka where the children were made to shelter in the Church but few of them survived the water, but the church is still standing.path said:
People who have survived this disaster who do believe will most probably ask the question of why God has forsaken them. Watching the news the other day, I saw a report where a priest in Sri Lanka saying that it will be difficult to make the believers understand that God does not hate them, because they have lost everything and many members of their families. What these people have to understand is that this was not an act of God, but an act of nature that did not pick them specifically. But I guess for people who believe so strongly in God that nature is God, they will want to blame someone or something. This disaster will either make the believers turn more to their God or turn away from their God.
Having said that, the parents of my friend and her husband who had been missing in the area (they are thankfully safe and well and had been volunteering with the Red Cross and the people they had contacted at the embassy to tell us they are safe had failed to do so until last weekend, resulting in a panic here at home), who were atheists went to church on Sunday to thank God that their child and her husband are safe and well. Strange I guess.
Thanks for the "dear, dear" I needed that today.
As for mistakes, I'm man enough to say, perhaps this one sentence was made upon anger.
A homeless person in America hardly receives the attention, that the tsunami victims have, we have hungry kids in this country that are starving to death, yet our government runs on humanitarian needs of others only for name sake, when they haven't done a good job of "humanitarian aid" here at home.
It's not my decision of what this government does, however I think we should be taking care of our own, before running off and helping others that we can hardly afford doing so.
I've done what I could afford, helping the relieve efforts of tsunami victims, not monetarily mind you, but many citizens here in the Vegas Valley have set up food banks to be sent to Asia via Red Cross. This I hope does reach some of its intended victims. I see many cities here in the states doing similar, and this I believe is a better way to help these people, instead of sending cash.
Not to be misunderstood, (which often I am). But last year, in Houston Tx. there were several homeless people found dead, frozen to death, similar stories all around the US often hidden on newspapers appear.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec02/homeless.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1210-22.htm
When will the government help them?.
Godless.
As for mistakes, I'm man enough to say, perhaps this one sentence was made upon anger.
A homeless person in America hardly receives the attention, that the tsunami victims have, we have hungry kids in this country that are starving to death, yet our government runs on humanitarian needs of others only for name sake, when they haven't done a good job of "humanitarian aid" here at home.
It's not my decision of what this government does, however I think we should be taking care of our own, before running off and helping others that we can hardly afford doing so.
I've done what I could afford, helping the relieve efforts of tsunami victims, not monetarily mind you, but many citizens here in the Vegas Valley have set up food banks to be sent to Asia via Red Cross. This I hope does reach some of its intended victims. I see many cities here in the states doing similar, and this I believe is a better way to help these people, instead of sending cash.
Not to be misunderstood, (which often I am). But last year, in Houston Tx. there were several homeless people found dead, frozen to death, similar stories all around the US often hidden on newspapers appear.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec02/homeless.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1210-22.htm
When will the government help them?.
Godless.
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surenderer
Registered Senior Member
[/QUOTE]
First I am glad to hear your friends are ok....second I believe that alotta survivors went to church or "found God" after this tragedy (happens after any tragedy) I dont know how many Muslims (cant speak for any other religions) would lose their faith in the Creator........most Muslims I know pray more when something awful happens to them not less....<shrug>
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
Godless said:Thanks for the "dear, dear" I needed that today.
As for mistakes, I'm man enough to say, perhaps this one sentence was made upon anger.
A homeless person in America hardly receives the attention, that the tsunami victims have, we have hungry kids in this country that are starving to death, yet our government runs on humanitarian needs of others only for name sake, when they haven't done a good job of "humanitarian aid" here at home.
It's not my decision of what this government does, however I think we should be taking care of our own, before running off and helping others that we can hardly afford doing so.
I've done what I could afford, helping the relieve efforts of tsunami victims, not monetarily mind you, but many citizens here in the Vegas Valley have set up food banks to be sent to Asia via Red Cross. This I hope does reach some of its intended victims. I see many cities here in the states doing similar, and this I believe is a better way to help these people, instead of sending cash.
Not to be misunderstood, (which often I am). But last year, in Houston Tx. there were several homeless people found dead, frozen to death, similar stories all around the US often hidden on newspapers appear.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec02/homeless.html
When will the government help them?.
Godless.
Will you help them Godless? I live in America also and see homeless people everyday....not long ago I had a homeless person come up to me and ask me for 5 dollars. I told him i didnt have it (even though I did) afterwards I went home and made him a sandwich and brought it back to him. If I had given him money there was no telling where that would have spent it. I also gave him the pick up spot of a friend of mine who picks up homeless people and takes them to the soupkitchen every morning. I guess what I am saying is screw the Goverment. they dont care about anyone untill election season. We (americans) gotta do ourselves what they dont/wont do :m:
Bells
Staff member
I understand why you're angry. I'm agry as well that we have children here who do not receive medical help and that we have whole families living on the streets and the Government does nothing to help them. But taking it out on people who've just suffered the human disaster we're seeing on the news doesn't help you, the victims or the people in your country who are in need. If you want your Government to do something for the people in need in your country, lobby them to allow them free access to accomodation and medical help. Go out and do something about it yourself. Volunteer at a soup kitchen. Go out in winter and donate blankets to the homeless. Offer to drive vans to pick up homeless people to take them to shelters. Donate money to homeless shelters. Offer your time and services to build homes for the needy. Your Government has run to help the people of the tsunami disaster because it needed to, just as it needs to act for its own citizens. I'm sure your Government gives money for needy causes in the US, push for them to give more. Start campaigns for building less bombs and using that money to help the needy and the homeless. The tsunami victims and survivors don't need your wrath, anger or whining. They need your help and compassion.Godless said:
The survivors don't just need food and clothing Godless. They need shelter, water purifyers and medical aid, things that only money can buy. We have a situation where the tsunami has taken so many lives, but it's after effects will take many more, in the form of disease. That's why they need the money to buy what they need to prevent this. Sending food is great, but at the immediate moment, they need clean water, shelter and medical aid.
You have no idea how glad I am that they are ok. She and I were friends since primary school and she's one of the two people I've remained close to from my school years (aside from family of course). She was in effect the first friend I ever made here when I first came to this country. We live in different States now but see each other at least once a year and talk at least once a week on the phone... something I don't do with my own family. But I was surprised when her mother told me that they went to church to give thanks for their daughter and her husband's safety. They were never believers and I don't know if they are believers now. I guess it was something that felt right to them. They were thanking everybody and everything when they got word on Saturday that they were safe, so why not go to church and do the same thing. Actually, having said that, my mother who is a strict Catholic (unlike her daughter) told me on the weekend that the church was packed to standing room only when she went to church last weekend, something she's never seen in that small church she goes to. I guess some people will turn to what or who they deem to be a higher power to try and gain some understanding of the devastation that has befallen so many people in one fell swoop.Surenderer said:
Well I've done my part, I don't try to hand them money though sometimes it's inevetable, specially when they are trying to work for it, by cleaning my windshield. I hand them out food, sweaters, blankets, during the winter months. I've had a few beers with some also being here in Vegas that's what they mostly want "money for beer". It all depends how I feel and how much I can afford at any given time. I've been there and done that.
I know how it is to be homeless, though I could never beg. I was lucky that a gay man helped me out, for this I totally changed my views on gays, the guy was just a nice person, that was willing to rent me a room, I had a job, but no place to call my own. He helped me at a time that I was into drugs and alcohol, and he provided me with a roof over my head for a very affordable prize. I sometimes feel I owe alot to this guy, for been so generous.
Since then I lifted myself out of poverty of the extreme, and I finally was able to earn enough money to stand on my two feet on my own. On the way up, I started helping out the homeless every chance that I could afford. A sweater here, some fast food there, or a blanket that I did not have need for.
It sadden me that governments boast of how much aid they are sending here or there, but we all know that their own citizens are the ones that are going hungry and homeless. They only donate this money, or give this aid for name sake, so the rest of the world can say "look america doing something great". What about home?.
I take care of myself before I can afford to take care of any homeless, I think the government should help it's own citizens before running somewere else to help others.
Is that so heartless?.
Godless.
I know how it is to be homeless, though I could never beg. I was lucky that a gay man helped me out, for this I totally changed my views on gays, the guy was just a nice person, that was willing to rent me a room, I had a job, but no place to call my own. He helped me at a time that I was into drugs and alcohol, and he provided me with a roof over my head for a very affordable prize. I sometimes feel I owe alot to this guy, for been so generous.
Since then I lifted myself out of poverty of the extreme, and I finally was able to earn enough money to stand on my two feet on my own. On the way up, I started helping out the homeless every chance that I could afford. A sweater here, some fast food there, or a blanket that I did not have need for.
It sadden me that governments boast of how much aid they are sending here or there, but we all know that their own citizens are the ones that are going hungry and homeless. They only donate this money, or give this aid for name sake, so the rest of the world can say "look america doing something great". What about home?.
I take care of myself before I can afford to take care of any homeless, I think the government should help it's own citizens before running somewere else to help others.
Is that so heartless?.
Godless.