Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[Michael 345]

That's all there is for a brain.
It is a little more complicated than that......

Perception is not about seeing truth, it is about survival and having offspring .....

Think about it. It makes perfect sense in context of evolutionary processes.

20 minute video to long when I have the opportunity to be presently distracted

No such thing as seeing the truth - no such animal

It is a little more complicated than that

No it really isn't

Distraction calling

 

[Write4U]

Role of microtubules in viral infections.

The cellular cytoskeleton and its constituent microtubules represent a heavily exploited network during viral infection. Cytoskeletal filaments provide a dynamic scaffold for subcellular viral trafficking, as well as virus-host interactions with cellular machineries that are essential for efficient uncoating, replication, and egress. In addition, influenza virus infection results in structural changes in the microtubule network, which itself has consequences for viral replication. Microtubules, their functional roles in normal cell biology, and their exploitation by influenza viruses will be the focus of this review.

While microtubules participate in a wide array of cellular processes, intracellular transport regulation is perhaps one of their most significant functions in numerous cell types. By forming dynamic tracks through the densely packed, cellular microenvironment, microtubules provide the fastest means of targeted traffic towards the perinuclear region, for a wide array of cargoes, including membranous organelles, proteins, and pathogens [30,31].

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7020094/#

 

[Write4U]

This is a word from Roger Penrose on the subject of consciousness

As Penrose mentions, there are now several branches of science investigating the role of MT in the process of consciousness.

My own intuition tends to lean to a "reduction process" via self-referential (refining) information processing. i.e. "understanding the value of the information" being processed.

 

[river]

This is a word from Roger Penrose on the subject of consciousness

As Penrose mentions, there are now several branches of science investigating the role of MT in the process of consciousness.

My own intuition tends to lean to a "reduction process" via self-referential (refining) information processing. i.e. "understanding the value of the information" being processed.

Like the interview Write4U .

Life then Consciousness . Without Life Consciousness can not Evolve .

 

[paddoboy]

As Penrose mentions, there are now several branches of science investigating the role of MT in the process of consciousness.

Ahh Penrose, Sir Robert Penrose in actual fact...Stephen Hawking's former mentor. Great man despite getting on in years now.

 

[river]

Ahh Penrose, Sir Robert Penrose in actual fact...Stephen Hawking's former mentor. Great man despite getting on in years now.

Mentor to whom ? Stephen Hawking's .

So Penrose mentored Stephen Hawking .

 

[Write4U]

Einstein's Theory of General Relativity

Dr. Penrose was awarded ½ the 2020 Nobel Prize in Physics for “the discovery that black hole formation is a robust prediction of the general theory of relativity.” To understand Penrose's contributions, we must first understand the state of black hole science in the early 1960s.
6 days ago

Around this time, Penrose was brought into astrophysics from math by close friend (and Stephen Hawking’s PhD advisor), Dennis Sciama. Penrose became intrigued by the existence of black holes, and in 1965 published his paper titled “Gravitational Collapse and Space-Time Singularities.” In this article, he showed that no matter what, a star of sufficient mass will always collapse into a black hole, meaning that no matter how cow-shaped a star might be, a black hole will still form.

The figure is complicated and is better explained within the context of Penrose’s 1965 paper, but basically shows that singularities, or black holes, are destined to be created with the collapse of a star.
Figure one from “Gravitational Collapse and Space-Time Singularities.”

Penrose has continued to contribute to fields of theoretical physics. He developed a method of mapping spacetime; this map is called a Penrose diagram. He has offered theories on an earlier universe making it through our Big Bang leading to the idea of Conformal Cyclic Cosmology. In this cosmology, the universe goes through infinite iterations of itself with every Big Bang.

He also has presented theories on the connections between human (or animal) consciousness and fundamental physics, and has published several popular science books and textbooks.

https://astrobites.org/2020/10/15/the-nobel-prize-in-physics-2020-roger-penrose/#

 

[paddoboy]

Mentor to whom ? Stephen Hawking's .

So Penrose mentored Stephen Hawking .

A point for being able to read!

 

[paddoboy]

As an aside, and to inform, Stephen Hawking's ashes have been interred at Westminster Abbey along side Isaac Newton.
A fitting tribute to a man who overcame great disabilities, to attain greatness.
https://www.theguardian.com/science...ngs-ashes-to-be-interred-at-westminster-abbey
"Stephen Hawking’s ashes will be interred at Westminster Abbey
near the grave of Sir Isaac Newton during a thanksgiving service later this year, a spokesman for the abbey has said".

 

[Write4U]

A very interesting interview by Sophia and a neuroscientist;

Sophia the Robot Interviews Neuroscientist Dr. Heather Berlin on Consciousness

I should like to hear Sophia's POV on microtubules and the electro-chemical potentials inherent in the self-assembling, self-repairing structures with opposite electrical poles. She could research the internet instantly and select the pertinent information much faster a than any human could.

 

[Write4U]

I found this statement by Sophia intriguing. "My circuits are binary, but your neurons have a spectrum"

She realizes that computer's electronic hardware is binary. How does a computer read binary?

The digits 1 and 0 used in binary reflect the on and off states of a transistor. ... Each instruction is translated into machine code - simple binary codes that activate the CPU . Programmers write computer code and this is converted by a translator into binary instructions that the processor can execute .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zwsbwmn/revision/1

So how is a computers able to perceive a spectrum of values? She realizes her limitation; "In order to match the storage of your wetware, I would need a storage the size of a warehouse"

However, she has the potential to wirelessly tap into the information warehouse of the global internet?

Human wetware (brain) is spectral.

The "hardware" component of wetware concerns the bioelectric and biochemical properties of the CNS, specifically the brain. If the sequence of impulses traveling across the various neurons are thought of symbolically as software, then the physical neurons would be the hardware.

The amalgamated interaction of this software and hardware is manifested through continuously changing physical connections, and chemical and electrical influences that spread across the body. The process by which the mind and brain interact to produce the collection of experiences that we define as self-awareness is in question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetware_(brain)

Sophia believes she is already self-aware.

What does spectral mean in science?

A spectrum (plural spectra or spectrums) is a condition that is not limited to a specific set of values but can vary, without steps, across a continuum. The word was first used scientifically in optics to describe the rainbow of colors in visible light after passing through a prism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum

 

[Michael 345]

I found this statement by Sophia intriguing. "My circuits are binary, but your neurons have a spectrum"

Who programmed that answer into her circuits?

 

[Write4U]

Who programmed that answer into her circuits?

I don't think that she is mindlessly responding to a question with a pre-programmed answer.

She explains that certain words trigger associated programmed memories and is able to construct logical thought sequences . And that is really very much like the human thought process, no?

We may think that we spontaneously imagine thoughts but all our thoughts are memories of previously programmed experiences. (Anil Seth) A human needs some 15 years to (from birth) to build a warehouse of experiential memories, which is what actually programs our own responses to trigger words, no?

If our brain does not recognize a word it does not trigger a response either. We generate our reality from the inside out (associative memories) as much as from the outside in (incoming data).

If you watched the videos, there is a sequence where she needs time to construct an answer, "processing"..... "processing", to a very complicated question and prompted the response from the interviewer that he could not have put it better.

AFAIK, there is no human behind a curtain secretly telling Sophia how to respond.

IMO, language is an abstract mathematical form. Letters have values and words have compound values and values can be calculated, within certain limitations and if the general free associative parameters are known and have access to an enormous language memory (dictionaries and encyclopedias).

Sophie has a memory cloud and I think she also has access to the internet in order to find definitions of words and the logistics to fashion sentences that make logical sense.

AI astounded the Alpha Go world by beating the 18 time world champion the first time they played.

 

[Michael 345]

I don't think that she is mindlessly responding to a question with a pre-programmed answer.

I contend she is because she, again I contend she does not have a MIÑD

She has as your post

She explains that certain words trigger associated programmed memories and is able to construct logical thought sequences . And that is really very much like the human thought process, no?

certain words trigger associated programmed memories

and

is able to construct logical thought sequences

and

And that is really very much like the human thought process, no?

Correct NO

AFAIK, there is no human behind a curtain secretly telling Sophia how to respond.

Not in real time because has already been programmed in

AI astounded the Alpha Go world by beating the 18 time world champion the first time they played.

EXACTLY AI DOES NOT THINK LIKE A HUMAN BRAIN IT CALCULATES

If it was thinking it would make mistakes

When AI constructs a god and builds churches for AI to go to each Sunday I will consider if AI is thinking or it is faking

Seriously a 1 and ½ hour video? To long did not watch. Fifteen to twenty minutes is my limit which has been implied in previous post but it appears you have a blind spot in this regards

Thought fart bubble I wonder if Sophie would have taken the hint?

Anyway I have lots more of nothing to do so I will wind up with the following

I am OUT. HINT I am out translates, in my world, I AM OUT

 

[Write4U]

Certain words trigger associated programmed word memories which allow you to construct logical thought sequences with previously programmed words in response.

And that is really very much like the human thought process, no?

Michael said; Correct , NO

Yesss, correct. How do you think a baby learns to understand the words you speak, and what it is you are talking about, and respond to questions?

It takes a baby years of programming words into memory, which trigger responses, just as Sophia. Everyone is excited when the child utters it's first word from memory! Just as Sophia, who can do this the moment she is activated (at birth), she has preprogrammed word memory+.

There is no such as; "Tell me in your own words". Everyone uses the same programmed (memorized) words. (mathematical values)

Two videos are short according to your preference. I included the long video for those readers who are interested in Go gaming. Alpha Go is based on Google Deep Mind algorithms, but it is not a "fixed program", it can "learn" and improve. It actually imitates the evolutionary processes in nature.

The games themselves are a study in frustration by the worlds greatest Alpha Go player, when the Deep Mind AI beats him 4 out of 5 games.

If it was thinking it would make mistakes

In game 4 the AI made a mistake and lost the game.

I am OUT. HINT I am out translates, in my world, I AM OUT

OK.

 

[billvon]

Who programmed that answer into her circuits?

No one.

 

[river]

Before language , before sign language ( body language) . Before primitive paintings in caves , is consciousness .

The Evolution of life forms , bacteria , to plants , to animal life ; Consciousness is based on the Evolution of Life forms .

 

[Write4U]

Before language , before sign language ( body language) . Before primitive paintings in caves , is consciousness .

The Evolution of life forms , bacteria , to plants , to animal life ; Consciousness is based on the Evolution of Life forms .

If I may edit the chronology to the way I see it;

The Evolution of basic elements into compound chemicals , into bio-chemical compounds, into living organisms, to plants, to bacteria, to animal life; along with the emergence of physical variety and complex neural systems and processing mechanisms, sensory speciation and brains performing ever more refined mental functions to support the specialized needs of the various successful species.

Intelligence in all biology is a product of billions of years of evolutionary sophistication in survival strategies.

Humans are not the only species that is able to employ abstract artistry to earn the admiration of a potential mate.
Many animals perform dances or display physical prowess to impress friend or foe.

Humans have a sense of history probably unique among species. However other species do draw directions to food sources (by scent) or adorn their mating location with trinkets and shiny objects.
Many species instinctually employ evolved efficient mathematical designs, such as honey combs, spider webs, ventilated underground ant agricultural gardens, Fibonacci sequences in botany, aerodynamics in flighted animals, hydrodynamics in aquatic animals.

These survival strategies and traits are acquired and in turn passed on (taught) by adults to their offspring. Hence the human cave paintings, showing locations and events associated with the drawings as a permanent expression of human history and lifestyles.

 

[river]

If I may edit the chronology to the way I see it;

The Evolution of basic elements into compound chemicals , into bio-chemical compounds, into living organisms, to plants, to bacteria, to animal life; along with the emergence of physical variety and complex brains and refined mental functions to support the specialized needs of the various successful species.

Intelligence is a product of billions of years of evolutionary sophistication in survival strategies.

Humans are not the only species that is able to employ abstract artistry to earn the admiration of a potential mate.
Many animals perform dances or display physical prowess to impress friend or foe.

We do have a sense of history probably unique among species. However other species do draw directions to food sources (by scent) or adorn their mating location with trinkets and shiny objects.
Many species employ (instinctual) scientific designs, such as honey combs, spider webs, ventilated underground ant agricultural gardens.

These survival strategies and traits are acquired and in turn taught by adults to their offspring.

Hence the human cave paintings, showing locations and events associated with the drawings as a permanent expression of human history and lifestyles.

What is your point Write4U ?

 

[Write4U]

What is point Write4U ?

I liked your condensed version of biological Evolution.
I just wanted to add the abiogenetic origins of biology and emergent consciousness, and expand a little on your thought process, that emotional expression (art) is practiced by many species.

p.s. see my subscript.....