Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[Write4U]

DNA does not make copies of itself.

Right, it replicates itself.

DNA is not a polymer consisting of four chemicals. Nor can it duplicate itself. It needs a lot of help.

Am I claiming different? Who brought up DNA?

btw, DNA does not duplicate itself, it replicates itself.

DNA Structure Activity
Problem 10: Review of the Features of the Watson-Crick Model for DNA Structure
Components of DNA

DNA is a polymer. The monomer units of DNA are nucleotides, and the polymer is known as a "polynucleotide." Each nucleotide consists of a 5-carbon sugar (deoxyribose), a nitrogen containing base attached to the sugar, and a phosphate group. There are four different types of nucleotides found in DNA, differing only in the nitrogenous base. The four nucleotides are given one letter abbreviations as shorthand for the four bases.

A is for adenine
G is for guanine
C is for cytosine
T is for thymine

http://www.biology.arizona.edu/biochemistry/activities/DNA/10t.html#

I am not discussing "DNA replication". My claim is that MT are responsible for "cell division" or "mitosis".

Nope. Read the very thing you posted: "The primary enzyme involved in [duplication] is DNA polymerase which joins nucleotides to synthesize the new complementary strand." Nothing about microtubules.

Right, microtubules are NOT involved in DNA replication. Apparently you do not read anything I post.
Let me refresh;

During mitosis replicated chromosomes are positioned near the middle of the cytoplasm and then segregated so that each daughter cell receives a copy of the original DNA (if you start with 46 in the parent cell, you should end up with 46 chromosomes in each daughter cell).

To do this cells utilize microtubules (referred to as the spindle apparatus) to "pull" chromosomes into each "cell". The microtubules have the 9+2 arrangement discussed earlier. Animal cells (except for a group of worms known as nematodes) have a centriole.

Common mistakes and misconceptions
DNA replication is not the same as cell division. Replication occurs before cell division, during the S phase of the cell cycle. However, replication only concerns the production of new DNA strands, not of new cells.

https://www.khanacademy.org/science...dna/a/hs-dna-structure-and-replication-review

Do you have a problem with Kahn Academy?

This is a thread about microtubules and their various functions throughout the entire organism, in order to see if this can be the foundation to the emergence of self-awareness (consciousness), it is not about DNA. Do you want to discuss DNA? Start a new thread !

 

[billvon]

Right, it replicates itself.

No, it doesn't.

Am I claiming different? Who brought up DNA?

You said "the DNA is the blueprint of the cell shape and function. But Microtubules are responsible for cell division (mitotic spindle) and the copying of the DNA itself. Microtubules function as copy machines."

Microtubules do not copy DNA.

DNA does not duplicate itself, it replicates itself.

DNA does not duplicate, replicate or copy itself. It needs several different structures to do that, and those structures are not DNA. Nor are they microtubules.

I am not discussing "DNA replication". My claim is that MT are responsible for "cell division" or "mitosis".
Right, microtubules are NOT involved in DNA replication. Apparently you do not read anything I post.

Apparently you yourself do not read what you post. Again, these are your words:

"Microtubules are responsible for cell division (mitotic spindle) and the copying of the DNA itself. Microtubules function as copy machines."

Do you now deny this?

Do you have a problem with Kahn Academy?

You do this all the time. You google for something with words that are similar to the words you are using, post the result, then claim that supports your argument. But since you don't understand the basic processes involved, you end up not supporting - indeed, often contradicting - your own argument.

 

[Write4U]

Microtubules do not copy DNA.

OK, I agree, for now. It seems that MT are not directly related to chromosome (DNA) replication, but are instrumental in cell division itself.

This shows when the microtubules become active in cell division.

What happens during mitosis?

During mitosis, a eukaryotic cell undergoes a carefully coordinated nuclear division that results in the formation of two genetically identical daughter cells. Mitosis itself consists of five active steps, or phases: prophase, prometaphase, metaphase, anaphase, and telophase. Before a cell can enter the active phases of mitosis, however, it must go through a period known as interphase, during which it grows and produces the various proteins necessary for division. Then, at a critical point during interphase (called the S phase), the cell duplicates its chromosomes and ensures its systems are ready for cell division. If all conditions are ideal, the cell is now ready to move into the first phase of mitosis.

Prophase

Figure 1: During prophase, the chromosomes in a cell's nucleus condense to the point that they can be viewed using a light microscope.

Prophase

is the first phase of mitosis. During this phase, the chromosomes inside the cell's nucleus condense and form tight structures. In fact, the chromosomes become so dense that they appear as curvy, dark lines when viewed under a microscope (Figure 1). Because each chromosome was duplicated during S phase, it now consists of two identical copies called sister chromatids that are attached at a common center point called the centromere.

Figure 2: The mitotic spindle (white) begins to form outside the cell's nucleus.

Important changes also take place outside of the nucleus during prophase. In particular, two structures called centrosomes move to opposite sides of the cell during this phase and begin building the mitotic spindle. The mitotic spindle plays a critical role during the later phases of mitosis as it orchestrates the movement of sister chromatids to opposite poles of the cell (Figure 2).

Prometaphase

After prophase is complete, the cell enters prometaphase. During prometaphase, the nuclear membrane disintegrates and the mitotic spindle gains access to the chromosomes. During this phase, a protein structure called the kinetochore is associated with the centromere on each sister chromatid. Stringlike structures called microtubules grow outfrom the spindle and connect to the sister chromatids at their kinetochores; one microtubule from one side of the spindle attaches to one sister chromatid in each chromosome, and one microtubule from the other side of the spindle attaches to the other sister chromatid (Figure 3a).
Metaphase

Figure 3: (a) Metaphase and (b) Anaphase.

In metaphase (a), the microtubules of the spindle (white) have attached and the chromosomes have lined up on the metaphase plate. During anaphase (b), the sister chromatids are pulled apart and move toward opposite poles of the cell.

Figure Detail
Following prometaphase, metaphase begins. At the start of metaphase, the microtubules arrange the chromosomes in a line along the equator of the cell, known as the metaphase plate (Figure 3b). The centrosomes, on opposite poles of the cell, then prepare to separate the sister chromatids.

Anaphase

After metaphase is complete, the cell enters anaphase. During anaphase, the microtubules attached to the kinetochores contract, which pulls the sister chromatids apart and toward opposite poles of the cell (Figure 3c). At this point, each chromatid is considered a separate chromosome.

Telophase

Figure 4: During telophase, two nuclear membranes form around the chromosomes, and the cytoplasm divides.

Finally, once anaphase is complete, the cell enters the last stage of the division process — telophase. During telophase, the newly separated chromosomes reach the mitotic spindle and a nuclear membrane forms around each set of chromosomes, thus creating two separate nuclei inside the same cell. As Figure 4 illustrates, the cytoplasm then divides to produce two identical cells.

Why is mitosis important?

As previously mentioned, most eukaryotic cells that are not involved in the production of gametes undergo mitosis. These cells, known as somatic cells, are important to the survival of eukaryotic organisms, and it is essential that somatic parent and daughter cells do not vary from one another. With few exceptions, the mitotic process ensures that this is the case. Therefore, mitosis ensures that each successive cellular generation has the same genetic composition as the previous generation, as well as an identical chromosome set.

https://www.nature.com/scitable/top...d-distribution-of-dna-during-mitosis-6524841/

 

[billvon]

OK, I agree, for now. It seems that MT are not directly related to chromosome (DNA) replication, but are instrumental in cell division itself.

Yes! Exactly! They are an important part of cell division. They are far from the only part.

 

[Write4U]

In furtherance of the role of Microtubules in DNA replication.

Microtubules and DNA Replication
Publisher Summary

This chapter discusses the microtubules and DNA replication. The investigations of the role of microtubules in regulating DNA replication reflect two different schools of thought: one studied lymphocytes with the working hypothesis that cell surface-associated microtubules were required for the transmission of the mitogenic signal; the other studied fibroblastic cells to try to identify the proliferative controls in the cell cycle.

One found that microtubule-disrupting drugs inhibited mitogenic stimulation; the other found that they enhanced it. One concluded that microtubules were required for the mitogenic signal to be transferred to the nucleus; the other postulated that intact microtubules exert a restrictive effect on mitogenic stimulation.

The inhibition of DNA synthesis by microtubule-disrupting drugs was observed not only with lymphocytes, but also with hepatocytes, mammary explants, and neuroblastoma. At least for lymphocytes stimulated by the lectins PHA or Con A and for hepatocytes stimulated by partial hepatectomy, it could be shown that the inhibition of [3H]thymidine incorporation reflected a reduced rate of the responding cell population entering S phase and was not simply a direct side effect of colchicine on the mechanism of [3H]thymidine uptake and incorporation into DNA. Because inhibition of mitogenic stimulation was also observed with vinblastine, it seems likely that the effect can be attributed to altered tubulin and microtubule organization.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0074769608617210

Seems the question is still open......

 

[Write4U]

Another piece of the puzzle of "consciousness"

https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_s_a_graziano_what_is_consciousness

And at the end of the video, an intriguing question about the nano-scale processors that must lie at the heart of the neural network...

MT ?

 

[Michael 345]

Another piece of the puzzle of "consciousness"

https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_s_a_graziano_what_is_consciousness

And at the end of the video, an intriguing question about the nano-scale processors that must lie at the heart of the neural network...

MT ?

CONSCIOUSNESS - is a PROCESS

The discussion seems to be about what brand of nuts / bolts and washers are being used and how important each nut or bolt or washer adds to the process

If I took away some of the parts would the process still run?

If I added more parts would it improve CONSCIOUSNESS? See new colours, hear more sound frequencies?

Stop talking about the nuts and bolts and washers. THEY are not CONSCIOUSNESS

 

[Write4U]

CONSCIOUSNESS - is a PROCESS
The discussion seems to be about what brand of nuts / bolts and washers are being used and how important each nut or bolt or washer adds to the process

Yes, the neural network and the nano processors that do the information processing,

If I took away some of the parts would the process still run?

Yes, the neural networks and processors are present in all Eukaryotic organisms, in various degrees of complexity and stages of sensitivity.
Consider the evolution of the eye! Started as a light sensitive patch and evolved in the keen eysight of eagles and the quantum based navigational organ of migrating birds.

If I added more parts would it improve CONSCIOUSNESS? See new colours, hear more sound frequencies?

Yes, different organisms have different abilities, which means their specific evolved conscious experiences are based on those specialized skills. Think about how many animals have specific skills that far outpace humans in sensitivity and range. (Eagles, eyesight; Bloodhounds, smell; Bats, Whales, sonar; Octopuses, shapeshifters; etc, etc) . Insects can see wave frequencies outside human visual range.
Humans have a mediocre range of sensory skills, but we have enormous information processing powers, which gives us an overall survival advantage over more limited processing abilities in simpler organisms, even as they may possess superior specialized skill sets.

Stop talking about the nuts and bolts and washers. THEY are not CONSCIOUSNESS

No one claims that the nuts and bolts ARE conscious. The claim is that the processing of information itself gives rise to a conscious experience. The trick is to find which nuts and bolts are involved in the "conscious experience", a form of Agency, in addition to the autonomous subconscious control functions, the "interoception" used in maintaining homeostasis in all living organisms.

Anil Seth summed it up; "You don't need to be smart to feel pain (a conscious experience), but you probably do have to be alive"

Consciousness starts very early in the evolution of motile organisms. The very physical response to external pressures is a form of rudimentary consciousness. This is already observable in single celled organisms.

I am suggesting that of all the intra-cellular and inter-cellular information distributors in Eukaryotic organisms, the microtubule is the ONLY suitable candidate, both in numbers and in distribution throughout the organisms.

All other cellular organelles have specific functions, enzyme production, etc. But there is usually only one such specialized organelle per cell, whereas there are hundreds of MT in each cell, working hard in distributing electro-chemical information within each cell and between cells.

Microtubules are very important in a number of cellular processes. They are involved in maintaining the structure of the cell and, together with microfilaments and intermediate filaments, they form the cytoskeleton. They also make up the internal structure of cilia and flagella. They provide platforms for intracellular transport and are involved in a variety of cellular processes, including the movement of secretory vesicles, organelles, and intracellular macromolecular assemblies (see entries for dynein and kinesin).[5] They are also involved in cell division (by mitosis and meiosis) and are the major constituents of mitotic spindles, which are used to pull eukaryotic chromosomes apart.

Microtubules are one of the cytoskeletal filament systems in eukaryotic cells. The microtubule cytoskeleton is involved in the transport of material within cells, carried out by motor proteins that move on the surface of the microtubule.

Pakorn Kanchanawong, National University of Singapore and National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute, National Institutes of Health; and Clare Waterman, National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute, National Institutes of Health -- http://images.nigms.nih.gov/index.cfm?event=viewDetail&imageID=3611

Just as our bodies rely on bones for structural support, our cells rely on a cellular skeleton. In addition to helping cells keep their shape, this cytoskeleton transports material within cells and coordinates cell division. One component of the cytoskeleton is a protein called tubulin, shown here as thin strands.

Image of a fibroblast cell containing fluorescently labeled actin (red) and microtubules (green).

James J. Faust and David G. Capco http://images.nigms.nih.gov/index.cfm?event=viewDetail&imageID=3617 NIGMS Open Source Image and Video Gallery

This image shows a normal fibroblast, a type of cell that is common in connective tissue and frequently studied in research labs. This cell has a healthy skeleton composed of actin (red) and microtubles (green). Actin fibers act like muscles to create tension and microtubules act like bones to withstand compression.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtubule

 

[Michael 345]

I am suggesting that of all the intra-cellular and inter-cellular information distributors in Eukaryotic organisms, the microtubule is the ONLY suitable candidate, both in numbers and in distribution throughout the organisms

Again nuts bolts and washers

Nuts bolts and washers

Nuts bolts and washers

NOT CONSCESSNESS

Like I am describing COOKING as being "My oven is a metal insulates box on 5 sides. With a door at the front and inside has racks and a various fittings to make it hot. And making it hot makes it able to cook

Explains nothing about cooking

Blah nut blah bolt blah washer blah which makes it conscess

Explains nothing about conscessness

 

[Write4U]

Blah nut blah bolt blah washer blah which makes it conscious.
Explains nothing about consciousness

Have you ever stood below a high-voltage power-line with a fluorescent tube? If there is high activity in the line, you don't need to plug in your tube. It lights all by itself from the electro-magnetic field surrounding the power line.

Actually your example of the oven does explain quite a bit.
The hard fact is that the heat in the oven does cook your steak. Your steak gets cooked in accordance to very specific time/temperature exposure. No other mysterious ingredient is necessary to cook your steak exactly to taste! It is a form of information processing, no?

This is similar to saying that the MT <==> Brain network does cook the sensory information and produces a very specific "experiential consciousness", dependent on the type and quality of information processed and the brain's ability to experience certain chemically induced emotional responses. i.e "consciousness of self" in relation to environment.

That IS the hard question.
But instead of endlessly repeating the hard question, why not follow the trail of hard facts that are available .

What I am trying to describe are the hard facts that make the MT network a prime candidate as an existent baseline potential .

Gotta start somewhere. Once a reasonable case has been made that MT MUST BE the network which together with the brain yields a self-aware, self-referential and self-experiential process, a propositional model can be tested. And this process is currently in progress.

Another know hard fact is that our brain is able to store information as long term memory of patterns. This can be studied once we have established where this memory resides.

Another suspected potential is contained in the low-voltage quantum field surrounding the MT neural network in the body and brain.

Example: we have already developed functional computer processors based on the MT structure and its electro-magnetic processing potential of qubit (pattern) processing.
Once that can be confidently modeled, we can begin to examine the actual processes that occur in the MT network and brain.
This is what Tegmark advocates. Don't start with the question, we know the question and what it is asking.
Let's start with some of the answers, which are self-evident, and can be examined in nano scale detail.
He argues that if the "mind" is an emergent functional self-aware physical (mathematical) process, we should be able to qualify and quantify it, because our current self-awareness must be based on sufficient available constituent parts.

If we did not possess sufficient potentials for consciousness, we would not be conscious.
OTOH, the self-evident hard fact that all organisms have a form of self-referential self-awareness (homeostasis, navigation), suggests that the ability for consciousness starts fairly early in the evolution of sensory data gathering and processing, which affords the subject a survival advantage.

 

[Michael 345]

Actually your example of the oven does explain quite a bit.
The hard fact is that the heat in the oven does cook your steak. Your steak gets cooked in accordance to very specific time/temperature exposure. No other mysterious ingredient is necessary to cook your steak exactly to taste! It is a form of information processing, no?

No no no CONSCIOUSNESS is not the steak or cake or the cooking

***************************************
BRAIN ----- Lots of information coming in from outside of my body

From what it have learnt about the information coming it I should call this a hot day
*****************************”**********= CONSCIOUSNESS

The sum total of the inputs / previous experience / learnt information / memories translate via chemical and electrical reactions processes into
* it's a hot day *

THAT IS CONSCESSNESS

It does NOT have a place to be found in quantum processes in microtubules because quantum processes don't even have a place

Quantum processes would be ONE of a gazillion processes interacting with each other

YES - ***** I am burning my hand because I have put it on a hot stove plate which has not cooled down - I better move it ****** is a localised CONSCESSNESS with a residence, WHILE the burning process continues, but obviously not a permanent home

Coffee time and get ready for dinner

 

[Write4U]

No no no CONSCIOUSNESS is not the steak or cake or the cooking

Really????...
***************************************

BRAIN ----- Lots of information coming in from outside of my body;
From what it have learnt about the information coming it I should call this a hot day

Not quite. Better to say the brain recognizes the information and vicariously experiences the emotion of being surrounded by warm air. Recall Descartes' brain in a vat? That brain believes it is walking outside on a warm day.

CONSCIOUSNESS
The sum total of the inputs / previous experience / learnt information / memories translate via chemical and electrical reactions processes into * it's a hot day *
THAT IS CONSCESSNESS

...... That's about it. Question is where and exactly how does this originate, that allows us to experience visual images, olfactory sensations, auditory cognition, pain, etc.
i.e. Consciousness.

It does NOT have a place to be found in quantum processes in microtubules because quantum processes don't even have a place.

I beg to differ with that . The current focus of study is on the synaptic ends of microtubules, and the "pyramidal" cells (which are arrays of microtubules).

Pyramidal cells, or pyramidal neurons, are a type of multipolar neuron found in areas of the brain including the cerebral cortex, the hippocampus, and the amygdala. Pyramidal neurons are the primary excitation units of the mammalian
prefrontal cortex and the corticospinal tract. Pyramidal neurons are also one of two cell types where the characteristicsign, Negri bodies, are found in post-mortem rabies infection.[1] Pyramidal neurons were first discovered and studied by Santiago Ramón y Cajal.[2][3] Since then, studies on pyramidal neurons have focused on topics ranging from neuroplasticity to cognition.

A human neocortical pyramidal neuron stained via Golgi technique. Notice the apical dendrite extending vertically above the soma and the numerous basal dendrites radiating laterally from the base of the cell body.

A reconstruction of a pyramidal cell. Soma and dendrites are labeled in red, axon arbor in blue. (1) Soma, (2) Basal dendrite, (3) Apical dendrite, (4) Axon, (5) Collateral axon.

Dendritic spines[edit]

Dendritic spines receive most of the excitatory impulses (EPSPs) that enter a pyramidal cell. Dendritic spines were first noted by Ramón y Cajal in 1888 by using Golgi's method. Ramón y Cajal was also the first person to propose the physiological role of increasing the receptive surface area of the neuron. The greater the pyramidal cell's surface area, the greater the neuron's ability to process and integrate large amounts of information.

Dendritic spines are absent on the soma, while the number increases away from it.[3] The typical apical dendrite in a rat has at least 3,000 dendritic spines. The average human apical dendrite is approximately twice the length of a rat's, so the number of dendritic spines present on a human apical dendrite could be as high as 6,000.[5]

Quantum processes would be ONE of a gazillion processes interacting with each other

Yessssss!
And there is only one candidate which is present in such numbers, microtubules. Maybe not a gazillion, but how about a few trillion? (note; there are many, many more microtubules than cells or any other organelle in the body)

YES - ***** I am burning my hand because I have put it on a hot stove plate which has not cooled down - I better move it ****** is a localised CONSCESSNESS with a residence, WHILE the burning process continues, but obviously not a permanent home
Coffee time and get ready for dinner

Are you sure you have thought this through?

The Effects of Painkillers on the Brain and Body

Painkillers work by blocking the brain’s perception of pain by binding to opiate receptors. This interferes with the signals transmitted by the central nervous system to the brain. Narcotic pain relievers are depressants, meaning they have a depressant effect on the central nervous system and decrease the feeling of pain while increasing a feeling of relaxation. By binding to the opiate receptors, painkillers also cause feelings of euphoria. It is these euphoric feelings that are often associated with painkiller use and the “high” that users get when abusing painkillers.

The chemical opiates are distributed by the MT network.

Narcotic painkillers bind to opiate receptors which are typically bound by special hormones called neurotransmitters. When painkillers are used for a long period of time, the body slows down production of these natural chemicals and makes the body less effective in relieving pain naturally. That is because narcotic painkillers fool the body into thinking it has already produced enough chemicals as there becomes an overabundance of these neurotransmitters in the body.

Existing neurotransmitters have nothing to bind with, as the drugs have taken their place on the opiate receptors. Because of this occurrence, the levels of naturally occurring neurotransmitters in the body decreases and the body builds an increased tolerance to the painkillers so more of the substance is needed to produce the same effect. Many of the neurotransmitters that are decreased include natural endorphins that are considered feel-good chemicals in the brain that also help with pain. Therefore, chemical dependency increases and likelihood of addiction increases as the body is unable to produce the natural chemical needed to relieve pain.

Neurotransmitters are necessary to send signals between the nerves to complete the brain and body connections. Although painkillers take the place of neurotransmitters on the opiate receptors, they cannot fill all of the neurotransmitters roles. Painkillers also depress the central nervous system, meaning the brain and the nerves, leading to slower breathing, slurred speech, and slower bodily reactions.

Painkiller physical dependency often comes after prolonged use and abuse of the drug, but consistent daily use of painkillers over a period of several straight days can also cause a physical addiction. Once someone is physically addicted to painkillers, they will experience extreme physical withdrawal symptoms once they stop taking painkillers. These physical symptoms can occur as soon as 4-6 hours after last use.

Physical withdrawal symptoms can include: agitation, restlessness, hot and cold sweats, nausea and vomiting, muscle aches, irritability, headaches, sleeplessness, bone and joint pain, emotional instability, depression and basically like the worst flu ever multiplied by one hundred. Often simply this fear of the pain of withdrawal will keep an addict using for years past the point where they’ve recognized a drug problem and a need to stop.

Of course it is not the body, but the brain that becomes addicted. All conscious emotional experiences are produced in the brain.

AFAIK, injury of body parts are processed by the "interoceptive" control function of the brain. Painkillers work primarily on the brain and neural synapses, not your hand.

Painkillers cause chemical changes to the brain and also kills brain cells. The most affected areas of the brain are those areas that deal with cognition, learning and memory. Painkiller use and abuse also can affect nerve cells.

https://www.marylandaddictionrecovery.com/effects-of-painkiller-on-the-brain-and-body/

 

[billvon]

Seems the question is still open......

No, it's not. Microtubules play a role in cell division. They are far from the only part that plays a role.

 

[Write4U]

No, it's not. Microtubules play a role in cell division. They are far from the only part that plays a role.

Read on...... much more there than meets the eye at first glance.

The inhibition of DNA synthesis by microtubule-disrupting drugs was observed not only with lymphocytes, but also with hepatocytes, mammary explants, and neuroblastoma. At least for lymphocytes stimulated by the lectins PHA or Con A and for hepatocytes stimulated by partial hepatectomy, it could be shown that the inhibition of [3H]thymidine incorporation reflected a reduced rate of the responding cell population entering S phase and was not simply a direct side effect of colchicine on the mechanism of [3H]thymidine uptake and incorporation into DNA. Because inhibition of mitogenic stimulation was also observed with vinblastine, it seems likely that the effect can be attributed to altered tubulin and microtubule organization.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0074769608617210

Bottom line; there is no other single organelle which is instrumental in the sensory information distribution to and from the brain. Along with neuroscience of the brain, the all-pervasive neural microtubule network is by numerical default alone the only possible candidate for deep study into its inherent and emergent potentials of the self-referential information processing mechanism that must be present for consciousness to emerge.

 

[billvon]

Read on...... much more there than meets the eye at first glance.

No, there is not. Microtubules play a role in cell division. They are far from the only part that plays a role. Inhibit them and the cell doesn't divide. Inhibit centromere adhesion and the cell doesn't divide. Inhibit kinetichore formation and the cell doesn't divide. Disrupt chromosomal structure and the cell doesn't divide. Those things are all responsible for neuron growth, no matter what crazy-straw ideas you have.

Bottom line; there is no other single organelle which is instrumental in the sensory information distribution to and from the brain.

You are so full of it. Even what you post does not support your claims.

 

[Write4U]

No, there is not. Microtubules play a role in cell division. They are far from the only part that plays a role. Inhibit them and the cell doesn't divide. Inhibit centromere adhesion and the cell doesn't divide. Inhibit kinetichore formation and the cell doesn't divide. Disrupt chromosomal structure and the cell doesn't divide. Those things are all responsible for neuron growth, no matter what crazy-straw ideas you have.

No one disputes that. These organelles produce "information" which is then transported by microtubules to various destinations, depending on the electro-chemical instruction. If the information cannot travel along the microtubule by itself, the microtubules provides a transport enzymes that will carry the information to its destination.

A kinetochore (/kɪˈnɛtəkɔːr/, /-ˈniːtəkɔːr/) is a disc-shaped protein structure associated with duplicated chromatids in eukaryotic cells where the spindle fibers attach during cell division to pull sister chromatids apart.[1] The kinetochore assembles on the centromere and links the chromosome to microtubule polymers from the mitotic spindle during mitosis and meiosis. Its proteins also help to hold the sister chromatids together and play a role in chromosome editing.[2] Details of the specific areas of origin are unknown.

It is clear that the kinetochore is a dedicated control mechanism which produces a signal that acts as an auto-inducer to the centromere (microtubular computer) with instruction to begin the mitotic process, at which time the microtubular machinery begin the process of pulling the replicated choromosomes apart.

Image of a human cell showing microtubules in green, chromosomes (DNA) in blue, and kinetochores in pink.

You are so full of it. Even what you post does not support your claims.

Yes it does, but that's not even important here.

In trying to debunk the concept of microtubules as biological electro-chemical processors, you have lost focus of the OP question if microtubules, as the heart of the neural network that connects the brain to all parts of the body, contribute to the emergence of self-awareness and consciousness. It is my proposition that no other organelle can provide as much information to the brain as the neural network and that therefore MT are prime candidates for producing an self-referential information process is system which, along with the processing power of the brain itself may have acquired a conscious agency, i.e. knowledge of itself, such as found in the sub-conscious homeostatic control function of "interoception".

So far, with your vehement protestations, you have not allowed the consideration on this forum to go past the physical biological information processing network machinery (the hard facts), so that we may test the notion of a physically based emergent consciousness (the hard question).

But of course there is a very active and dedicated army of scientists and technicians which are doing precisely that.
Google "microtubule" and you'll get hundreds of references to ongoing research and a continuing stream of peer reviewed papers on the properties and functions being published on this remarkable nano-scale processor.

I have no axe to grind, other than as an exercise in logic and the processing of relational mathematical values by means of mathematical (algebraic) functions.

 

[Write4U]

This may be of interest;

Sperm swim by means of a prominent flagellum, composed of a core of microtubules, whose sliding is powered by flagellar dynein. This array of microtubules and associated motor and linker proteins is known as an axoneme. The midpiece of the sperm contains a prominent array of mitochondria, which are required to produce huge amounts of ATP, whose hydrolysis powers the conformational changes in flagellar dynein that mediate microtubule sliding.

Image courtesy of Thomas Gensch, Forschungszentrum Jülich.

Most flagella, like cilia, have a characteristic “9+2” structure, i.e., two central singlet microtubules are encircled by nine outer doublet microtubules. The outer and inner dynein arms slide along each outer doublet microtubule. The following diagram shows how the inner and outer doublet microtubules of the axoneme are connected to dynein.

Internal structure of the axoneme. Adapted from an image courtesy of Takashi Ishikawa, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich.

Sea urchin sperm move their tails using a helical motion, as shown here in this animation.

Animation courtesy of Sea Urchin Embryologysite.

http://worms.zoology.wisc.edu/dd2/echino/fert/sperm/sperm.html

 

[river]

If I took away some of the parts would the process still run?

Sure , but not great .

Yes, the neural networks and processors are present in all Eukaryotic organisms, in various degrees of complexity and stages of sensitivity.
Consider the evolution of the eye! Started as a light sensitive patch and evolved in the keen eysight of eagles and the quantum based navigational organ of migrating birds.

Yes

In This Universe , Intelligence.... Life.... Galaxies and Quasars , Exist Together . Without Life Write4U , " networks , processors " would not Exist .

 

[billvon]

No one disputes that. These organelles produce "information" which is then transported by microtubules to various destinations

Nope. Most substances within the cell are transported by diffusion. Some proteins are transported actively; the endoplasmic reticulum does that.

 

[Write4U]

Nope. Most substances within the cell are transported by diffusion. Some proteins are transported actively; the endoplasmic reticulum does that.

Diffusion is a passive function and has nothing to do with "delivering information" to specific areas in the body and brain via the microtubule network.

What is endoplasmic reticulum made of?
Rough endoplasmic reticulum is an organelle found in eukaryotic cells. Its main function is to produce proteins. It is made up of cisternae, tubules and vesicles. The cisternae are made up of flattened membrane disks, which are involved in the modification of proteins.Dec 4, 2016

These proteins are not distributed via "diffusion". They are distributed by MT to specific sites where these proteins are needed.

A novel direct interaction of endoplasmic reticulum with microtubules.
D R Klopfenstein, F Kappeler, and H P Hauri
Author information Copyright and License information Disclaimer

This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.
Abstract

The positioning and dynamics of organelles in eukaryotic cells critically depend on membrane-cytoskeleton interactions. Motor proteins play an important role in the directed movement of organelle membranes along microtubules, but the basic mechanism by which membranes stably interact with the microtubule cytoskeleton is largely unknown.

Here we report that p63, an integral membrane protein of the reticular subdomain of the rough endoplasmic reticulum (ER), binds microtubules in vivo and in vitro. Overexpression of p63 in cell culture led to a striking rearrangement of the ER and to concomitant bundling of microtubules along the altered ER.

Mutational analysis of the cytoplasmic domain of p63 revealed two determinants responsible for these changes: an ER rearrangement determinant near the N-terminus and a central microtubule-binding region. The two determinants function independently of one another as indicated by deletion experiments. A peptide corresponding to the cytoplasmic tail of p63 promoted microtubule polymerization in vitro. p63 is the first identified integral membrane protein that can link a membrane organelle directly to microtubules. By doing so, it may contribute to the positioning of the ER along microtubules.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1170943/