Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

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Write4U said:
I understand what they have written. I likened it to a roomba vacuum cleaner, which uses (eats) pure electricity to maintain a dynamic pattern profile.
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A Roomba does not eat "pure electricity." It uses a current flow to cause chemical reactions within its lithium-ion battery; these reactions store current flow as potential energy. Again, very much like photosynthesis. This is nothing new.
It seems you're the one having trouble understanding what they have observed and reported.
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Not at all. They are reporting that bacteria have found a way to use current flow to synthesize carbohydrates - just as many other organisms use photons to generate current flow to synthesize carbohydrates, and just as many other chemical processes use electricity to create new compounds. This is well understood. Scientists understand it. Chemists understand it. Biologists understand it. The only person who doesn't understand it, and seems to think it is some sort of never before seen miracle, is you.
Like the electric chair doesn't make you stronger. But when Frankenstein gets hit with lightning, it invigorates him.
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Right! And when the Flash gets hit with the Speed Force he goes faster! Are you going to base your next "scientific claim" on that?
 
billvon said:
A Roomba does not eat "pure electricity." It uses a current flow to cause chemical reactions within its lithium-ion battery; these reactions store current flow as potential energy. Again, very much like photosynthesis. This is nothing new.
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This is not what happens according to the article.
Not at all. They are reporting that bacteria have found a way to use current flow to synthesize carbohydrates - just as many other organisms use photons to generate current flow to synthesize carbohydrates, and just as many other chemical processes use electricity to create new compounds. This is well understood. Scientists understand it. Chemists understand it. Biologists understand it. The only person who doesn't understand it, and seems to think it is some sort of never before seen miracle, is you.
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Who said it was a never before seen miracle? I didn't. Read the article!
Right! And when the Flash gets hit with the Speed Force he goes faster! Are you going to base your next "scientific claim" on that?
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I am not making the scientific claim. A scientist is.

Address the message, not the messenger.
 
Another link to recent research;
175-Microtubules_1ffx.jpg

Stathmin (magenta) destabilizes microtubules by binding to tubulin.
A diverse collection of proteins assist microtubules in the many tasks that they perform, forming a variety of linkers, nucleators, and regulators. The protein shown here in magenta is stathmin, a microtubule-destabilizing protein (PDB entry 1ffx ). It binds to two dimers of tubulin, and acts by either locking up the dimers and preventing assembly, or promoting disassembly of an existing microtubule. Stathmin as been very useful to scientists. Tubulin has been difficult to study by crystallography, since it typically forms microtubules instead of crystals. The complex with stathmin, on the other hand, can be crystallized and used to determine the atomic structure.
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175-Microtubules_1z2b_1jff_JSmol.jpg


Given their central role in cell division, microtubules are the target of many important toxins and drugs. For instance, some anticancer drugs act this way: they are designed to block the malignantly rapid growth of the cancer cells by blocking the normal dynamics of microtubules. Three molecules that block microtubule action, all produced by plants, are shown here: colchicine and vinblastine block the assembly of microtubules, and the anticancer drug paclitaxel (Taxol) promotes the assembly, binding so tightly that disassembly is virtually impossible (PDB entries 1z2b and 1jff ). To look at these structures in more detail, click on the image for an interactive JSmol.

Topics for Further Discussion
  1. The use of stathmin has allowed the determination of the structures of many different inhibitors bound to tubulin. You can use the Ligand Explorer to explore the ways these inhibitors are bound.
Related PDB-101 Resources
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This may illustrate the MT bundles at the data exchange sites (synapses)

fncel-12-00165-g002.jpg

Neurons depend on the highly dynamic microtubule (MT) cytoskeleton for many different processes during early embryonic development including cell division and migration, intracellular trafficking and signal transduction, as well as proper axon guidance and synapse formation. The coordination and support from MTs is crucial for newly formed neurons to migrate appropriately in order to establish neural connections. Once connections are made, MTs provide structural integrity and support to maintain neural connectivity throughout development.

Abnormalities in neural migration and connectivity due to genetic mutations of MT-associated proteins can lead to detrimental developmental defects. Growing evidence suggests that these mutations are associated with many different neurodevelopmental disorders, including intellectual disabilities (ID) and autism spectrum disorders (ASD). In this review article, we highlight the crucial role of the MT cytoskeleton in the context of neurodevelopment and summarize genetic mutations of various MT related proteins that may underlie or contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fncel.2018.00165/full
 
Why do microtubules remind me of Menger sponges? Are microtubules "fractal"?

1-s2.0-S0959440X16000038-fx1.jpg

Eva-Nogales-EB3-image1.jpg
Microtubule

C-b89G9XsAAgZSP

Menger Sponge.

Fractals and the irreducibility of consciousness in plants and animals
John Gardiner
Abstract
In both plants and animals consciousness is fractal. Since fractals can only pass information in one direction it is impossible to extrapolate backward to find the rule that governs the fractal. Thus, similarly, it will be impossible to completely determine the rule or rules that govern consciousness.
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The Irreducibility of Consciousness
In animals, consciousness appears closely linked to electrical signaling in the nervous system. For example, EEG data show that when Buddhist monks meditate that gamma wave synchrony is greatly increased.1 In plants, this may not occur since there are no data on plant EEG. However, it appears that in plants the expression of consciousness may take a different form.
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Every plant has its own growth and form and it seems possible that in plants, consciousness may lead to the coordination of growth. There is some evidence for this. In animals, the microtubule cytoskeleton participates in electrical signaling and indeed it has been suggested that it is key to consciousness, with microtubules possible forming a Bose-Einstein condensate whereby tubulin molecules are linked within and between cells into a single quantum entity.2 In plants, microtubules coordinate the deposition of cellulose which then determines the direction of cell expansion and hence plant growth.....more
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https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.4161/psb.25296
 
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RainbowSingularity said:
i think the immune response and understanding it is a critical key to addiction processes and understanding how the body drives the brain etc etc etc pain medication etc ..
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Welcome to the world of microtubules.

Distinct Roles of Cytoskeletal Components in Immunological Synapse Formation and Directed Secretion
A hallmark of CD4+ T cell activation and immunological synapse (IS) formation is the migration of the microtubule organization center and associated organelles toward the APCs. In this study, we found that when murine CD4+ T cells were treated with a microtubule-destabilizing agent (vinblastine) after the formation of IS, the microtubule organization center dispersed and all of the major cellular organelles moved away from the IS. Cytokines were no longer directed toward the synapse but were randomly secreted in quantities similar to those seen in synaptic secretion.
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We have previously demonstrated that there are at least four distinct stages of CD4+ T cell IS formation (19). After retraction of invasive actin-rich pseudopodia following the first hour, the contact area becomes flat, and the ends of microtubules are directly anchored to the center contact site at the IS.
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During this time, the main cytoskeletal components at the center contact site switch from actin filaments to microtubules. Interestingly, it has been also shown that cooperation of both actin and microtubules plays an important role in regulating T cell activation and formation of the IS (6, 26, 36). The same events have been shown in IS formation in NK cells (37–40). However, how these cytoskeletal components interact with each other and other T cell components is not well understood.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4610857/

While this does not address consciousness per se, it demonstrates the incredible range of microtubular functions in maintenance of homeostasis in all Eukaryotic organisms.
 
Mod Note

Stick to the subject of the thread topic ("Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules), or I will close this thread.
 
Write4U said:
I am not making the scientific claim. A scientist is.
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No, he's not. You read the article and misunderstood it. You made several false claims. We are correcting you.
Address the message, not the messenger.
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OK. The scientist said that all life is basically a flow of electrons, because much of chemistry is a flow of electrons. It happens during photosynthesis, cellular respiration and protein synthesis. Life is, in large part, a clever set of chemical reactions designed to suck electrons out of things we ingest and create that current flow. So this bacteria is not showing any new chemical processes or life cycles. It doesn't "live on pure energy" but rather on the electron transfer process that powers all life.

I agree with him.
 
In the thread "Dealingwith cytokines"
RS said; ↑ i am very interested in this subject
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W4U said: What may be of interest is that microtubules play a major role in the study of cytokines and immunology in general.
See my thread "Is consciousness to be found in microtubules"
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Moderator said.
Bells said:
Mod Note
Do not, I repeat, do not attempt to infect other threads with your pseudoscience thread Write4u.
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OK, in response to RS order to avoid infecting the thread "dealing with "cytokines" I referrred the reader to my thread about the various roles microtubules play in maintaining homeostasis.
Thus, in the thread "Is consciousness to be found mictotubules.
RS said; ↑ i think the immune response and understanding it is a critical key to addiction processes and understanding how the body drives the brain etc etc etc pain medication etc ..
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W4U said; Welcome to the world of microtubules.
Distinct Roles of Cytoskeletal Components in Immunological Synapse Formation and Directed Secretion
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Bells said:
Mod Note
Stick to the subject of the thread topic ("Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules), or I will close this thread.
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OK, as you wish. I have started a new thread about the role microtubules play in Immunology .
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As posted elsewhere, microtubules and microfilaments are the data processing "information highways" in all Eukaryotic organisms.
They play a major role in maintaining homeostasis of the body. This includes the maintenance of a vigorous immune system against foreign pathogens.



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A study by Mirzapoiazova et al also demonstrated that microtubule stabilisation with taxol systemically attenuates lipopolysaccharide-induced inflammation and vascular leak [3]. Furthermore, studies present microtubules to be directly involved in neutrophil locomotion, leukocyte transmigration, and solute permeability in several inflammation-related lung disorders such as Acute Lung Injury (ALI). In recent years, there has been growing evidence that inflammasomes mainly act as danger-sensing signals and orchestrate inflammatory signaling in several inflammation-related disorders [4-8]. Inflammasomes are multiprotein, high molecular weight complexes that are localized in the cytosol of cells and display an enzymatic activity that activates the cytokine IL-1beta (IL-1β) [9]. There are several theories on the mechanism of inflammasome activation, but there is limited information on the mechanism in which microtubules alter the inflammatory regulators.
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A recent study by Misawa et al observed an interesting link between microtubules and inflammasomes [10]. In their study, the authors demonstrated that inhibitors of microtubule polymerization like colchicine and nocodazole can lead to the decrease in production of IL-1β, a major pro-inflammatory cytokine processed and secreted by the NLRP3 inflammasome. Interestingly, the activation of the NLRP3 inflammasome was not dependent of the phagocytic pathway but was due to the microtubule-mediated relocalization of mitochondria. Mitochondria are transported via motor proteins like kinesin and dynein along the microtubules.....more
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4133274/
 
river said:
What movements do mito
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OK, I think I know what you are asking.

Microtubules Are Essential for Mitochondrial Dynamics–Fission, Fusion, and Motility–in Dictyostelium discoideum
Our results indicate that microtubules are essential for mitochondrial movement, as well as fission and fusion; actin plays a less significant role, perhaps selecting the mitochondria for transport. We also suggest that CluA is not a linker protein but plays an unidentified role in mitochondrial fission and fusion. The significance of our work is to gain further insight into the role the cytoskeleton plays in mitochondrial dynamics and function. By better understanding these processes we can better appreciate the underlying mitochondrial contributions to many neurological disorders characterized by altered mitochondrial dynamics, structure, and/or function
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The cytoskeleton, in addition to affecting mitochondrial morphology plays a crucial role in maintaining mitochondrial distribution throughout the cell by facilitating organelle transport to areas with high metabolic demands (Van Gestel et al., 2002; Bereiter-Hahn et al., 2008; Kostal and Arriaga, 2011; Nekrasova et al., 2011; Wu et al., 2013).
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In order to rapidly respond to cellular demands, the cytoskeleton must have a communication system allowing it to influence organelle transport and position. This system usually encompasses various linker and motor proteins. The interaction between the cytoskeleton and the mitochondria is poorly understood; however several studies suggest that cytoskeletal network proteins interact with components of the fission and fusion machinery (Liesa et al., 2009), as well with the calcium sensing GTPase- Miro (Fransson et al., 2006; Frederick and Shaw, 2007).......more
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4801864/#:~:text=Microtubules
 
billvon said:
Didn't a moderator already ask you to keep all your microtubule woo in the other thread?
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No, you better look again and inform yourself of what's going on here. Bells has not only become my "word" police, she has become my "thought" police.

I am forbidden (on threat of censorship) to mention the word "microtubule" anywhere, unless it is in reference to "consciousness." And that only by her magnanimous graciousness of allowing me to post in Sciforums at all.

If you will note. Bells complained about my use of the word microtubule, in relation to Immunology and by extension, Homeostasis in general, in both threads.
This left me no choice but to open a new dedicated thread specifically addressing the role of microtubules in respect to Homeostasis as that includes the field of Immunology.

I'll be happy to do that every time there is a complaint about my incorrect choice of the word microtubule in reference to some fundamental importance in mitosis and maintaning cellular health (among many other functions) in living organisms.

I'll just open a new dedicated thread, everytime, although I'd prefer to keep it all under one simple title so that a comprehensive image can be presented in the attempt to describe the important role microtubules have in ALL dynamic information sharing in living organisms, and in particular how this all pervasive engagement of information processing by microtubules and microfilaments may be causal to the emergence of self-aware conscious sentience.

But I'll be conforming to the tortured logic as displayed by Bells as Moderator. I don't see her "heavy boot" in other forums which wander all over the place.

And all this Official hullabaloo after moving my thread to a pseudo-science sub-forum to minimize "critique of scientific methodology". This is truly becoming ludicrous, but I've dealt with worse.

You've got to be kidding!
 
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