Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[DaveC426913]

Tell me, an organism that eats electrons, what would you call that form of energy? Electricity?

It is called chemical metabolism. All living creatures do it.

 

[billvon]

Tell me, an organism that eats electrons, what would you call that form of energy? Electricity?

A plant. Photosynthesis works by stripping electrons from a donor material, and then using those electrons to synthesize carbohydrates. (Sorry no microtubules.)

 

[Write4U]

ndeed. If one reads up on these bacteria in more science-oriented sources, one sees that they utilize chemistry such as iron oxide and oxidation. Being chemical in nature, of course these mechanisms involve transfer of electrons.

This was an article on an organism that does not eat iron or any other chemical. It derives it energy from eating pure electrons.

Meet the electric life forms that live on pure energy
Unlike any other life on Earth, these extraordinary bacteria use energy in its purest form – they eat and breathe electrons – and they are everywhere

What stuff do they eat?

 

[Write4U]

A plant. Photosynthesis works by stripping electrons from a donor material, and then using those electrons to synthesize carbohydrates. (Sorry no microtubules.)

Photosynthesis is a conversion system. The organism discussed in the article apparently use unadulterated electrons, not electro-chemical energy, for direct growth energy.

There is your Frankenstein, the more electricity hits the organism, the stronger it gets....

 

[Write4U]

It is called chemical metabolism. All living creatures do it.

The article speaks of "electrical metabolism", not electro-chemical metabolism.

Think Rumba vacuum cleaner....

 

[billvon]

Photosynthesis is a conversion system. The organism discussed in the article apparently use unadulterated electrons, not electro-chemical energy, for direct growth energy.

Nope. You didn't read the article did you.

"electricity in the shape of electrons harvested from rocks and metals" - just as photosynthesis uses electricity in the shape of electrons harvested from water.

 

[DaveC426913]

The article speaks of "electrical metabolism", not electro-chemical metabolism.

Indeed. Which is why it's misleading and low-quality.
It uses iron oxide as a recipient for electrons, striped from other elements.
In other words, chemistry.

 

[exchemist]

Apparently you can.
Tell me, an organism that eats electrons, what would you call that form of energy? Electricity?

It doesn't "eat" electrons. Electrons passing through cause chemical changes that give the bacterium energy. But electrons are not somehow digested and broken down. Furthermore the bacterium still requires an organic substrate for building the bodies of new bacteria as the colony grows. Electricity replaces conventional respiration, that's all. It would be more accurate to say they "breathe electricity" than that they eat electrons, though neither description is very illuminating.

And yes electricity is a form of energy, taking the role of the chemical energy used by oxygen-breathing organisms. But it is not "pure" energy any more than any other kind of energy is "pure" energy. Like all energy, it is a property of a physical system and cannot be divorced from it.

 

[river]

billvon said: ↑
A plant. Photosynthesis works by stripping electrons from a donor material, and then using those electrons to synthesize carbohydrates. (Sorry no microtubules.)

Photosynthesis is a conversion system. The organism discussed in the article apparently use unadulterated electrons, not electro-chemical energy, for direct growth energy.

There is your Frankenstein, the more electricity hits the organism, the stronger it gets....

The Suns energy , light energy , is manipulated , ...by Life , to give to its Life .

In bacteria in the Earths Crust , bacteria use minerals to give its self the energy to survive .

So is there Life in Quantum Microtubules , Yes .

 

[Write4U]

According to Penrose, Bohm, and some of the early philosophers, the universe does "experience" dynamical events. That seems logical since "change" is an abstract experiential concept.
Question is ;
Are natural universal dynamics a sign of an "a priori" conscious intelligence, or a dynamical expression of a mathematical pseudo-intelligent evolutionary process of increasing complexity, which is a logical causality to the evolutionary emergence of "experiential consciousness"?

 

[billvon]

The Suns energy , light energy , is manipulated , ...by Life , to give to its Life .

And by inorganic substances to power other inorganic substances.

So is there Life in Quantum Microtubules , Yes .

Then there is life in solar power systems too!

 

[Write4U]

So is there Life in Quantum Microtubules , Yes .

No, a microtubule is an organelle, a tiny molecular self-forming tubular pattern. But due to its bi-polar coil pattern it is able to process a host of electro-chemical sensory data. Microtubules are at the heart of the neural network and are present in the slime mold which does not have a neural network but does use microtubules for motility. Slime mold is a single celled multi nuclear pseudopod.

Seems at that micro level the prefixes "pseudo-" or "quasi-" are often used to indicate an ability which is normally attributed to an evolved intelligent survival mechanism in living organisms.

This would suggest a smooth transition from purely chemical behaviors to acquired sentient survival behaviors as an evolutionary potential of bio-chemistry.

 

[Write4U]

A plant. Photosynthesis works by stripping electrons from a donor material, and then using those electrons to synthesize carbohydrates. (Sorry no microtubules.)

Yes, "using electrons to synthesize carbohydrates" is not the same as using pure electric energy.

The discovery of electric bacteria shows that some very basic forms of life can do away with sugary middlemen and handle the energy in its purest form – electrons, harvested from the surface of minerals. “It is truly foreign, you know,” says Nealson. “In a sense, alien.”

Shall I write these people and tell them they don't know what they're talking about?

 

[billvon]

Yes, "using electrons to synthesize carbohydrates" is not the same as using pure electric energy.

There is no such thing as "pure electric energy." There are electrical potentials, which are characterized by charge (electron surpluses.) There are electrical currents, which are flowing electrons (expressed in various ways.)

Current flow is movement of electrons. Just as the synthesis of carbohydrates in photosynthesis is.

Shall I write these people and tell them they don't know what they're talking about?

Nope. I'd write them and explain that you don't understand what they have written.

 

[Write4U]

There is no such thing as "pure electric energy." There are electrical potentials, which are characterized by charge (electron surpluses.) There are electrical currents, which are flowing electrons (expressed in various ways.)

Current flow is movement of electrons. Just as the synthesis of carbohydrates in photosynthesis is.

Nope. I'd write them and explain that you don't understand what they have written.

I understand what they have written. I likened it to a roomba vacuum cleaner, which uses (eats) pure electricity to maintain a dynamic pattern profile.

It seems you're the one having trouble understanding what they have observed and reported.

 

[exchemist]

I understand what they have written. I likened it to a roomba vacuum cleaner, which uses (eats) pure electricity to maintain a dynamic pattern profile.

It seems you're the one having trouble understanding what they have observed and reported.

"Pure electricity", eh? Perhaps, then, you'd like to explain to us what impure electricity is.

 

[Write4U]

"Pure electricity", eh? Perhaps, then, you'd like to explain to us what impure electricity is.

Why is that necessary?

There is no such thing as "pure electric energy.

Ask billvon, he seems to know about pure electricity.

Don't ask me, I am not making the claim . I'm merely spreading the news (with link). I'll leave it up to you to decided what these scientists had in mind when they claimed that the organism feeds "different" than any other organism. That's what makes it remarkable in their mind.

If what they claim is false, then in what way is their claim false? To me feeding and organism pure electricity is usually harmful.
Like the electric chair doesn't make you stronger. But when Frankenstein gets hit with lightning, it invigorates him. We know there are organisms that generate electricity (i.e. electric eel).

But apparently, this organisms likes to eat unadulterated photons. Bizarre? No doubt.....

 

[DaveC426913]

Don't ask me, I am not making the claim . I'm merely spreading the news (with link).

I'll leave it up to you to decided what these scientists had in mind when they claimed that the organism feeds "different" than any other organism. That's what makes it remarkable in their mind.

If what they claim is false, then in what way is their claim false?

 

[exchemist]

Why is that necessary?
Ask billvon, he seems to know about pure electricity.

Don't ask me, I am not making the claim . I'm merely spreading the news (with link). I'll leave it up to you to decided what these scientists had in mind when they claimed that the organism feeds "different" than any other organism. That's what makes it remarkable in their mind.

If what they claim is false, then in what way is their claim false? To me feeding and organism pure electricity is usually harmful.
Like the electric chair doesn't make you stronger. But when Frankenstein gets hit with lightning, it invigorates him. We know there are organisms that generate electricity (i.e. electric eel).

But apparently, this organisms likes to eat unadulterated photons. Bizarre? No doubt.....

Billvon has made no claim about "pure electricity". You have.

With your usual muddled thought processes, you have failed to realise that what billvon, Dave and I have been criticising is not the research, but the misleading way it was reported in the click-baity title of the Nude Scientist article that you reported.

So we have tried to set you straight on what the research actually showed. Your response is to assume that we are attacking the research findings. We aren't.

"Pure energy" is a bogus concept and so is "pure electricity". There is energy, which is a property of a physical system and which can be present in various forms. This includes electrical energy, which is released when an amount of electric charge moves through a potential difference. That is what these bacteria are apparently capable of using in place of a chemical respiration reaction. Or that is how I read it. (Respiration is not "eating", by the way)

(I don't know where you get this about something that likes to "eat unadulterated photons". This is seems to be a new bogus idea, from somewhere. )

 

[Write4U]

I don't see how I can be criticiuzed for this ;

Leader: “Spark of life revisited thanks to electric bacteria”

Meet the electric life forms that live on pure energy

Unlike any other life on Earth, these extraordinary bacteria use energy in its purest form – they eat and breathe electrons – and they are everywhere

Gorby believes bacterial cells that both eat and breathe electrons will soon be discovered. “An electric bacterium grown between two electrodes could maintain itself virtually forever,” says Gorby. “If nothing is going to eat it or destroy it then, theoretically, we should be able to maintain that organism indefinitely.”

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25894-meet-the-electric-life-forms-that-live-on-pure-energy/

These are not my words. Why don't you tell me what's wrong with the article instead of telling me I am wrong for posting the link as published.

As written, I see a possible connection between microtubules and the transmission and storage of elctricity, even in this new "discovery" .