Interpretation of the Bible?

God said he wrote His law in everybody's hearts. The decision between right and wrong comes internally, some prefer the conscience, others prefer following a few laws. But in the end, the only one who can judge is God himself. That's why we need to find out what His standards are and how to follow them. We find that from Jesus, in the Bible.

Countries, nations, laws or ethics can't change a man's heart. But if he believed in God, and knew that he was guilty under te law and freed by Christ, he might experience a change of heart.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar

Only God can sufficiently glorify His name. And God chose to do it through Jesus. That should mean something.

looks like god knew what you were going to say in the Quran and here is your answer from the Quran.

The Cow
[2.116] And they say: Allah has taken to himself a son. Glory be to Him; rather, whatever is in the heavens and the earth is His; all are obedient to Him.
****If god owns all in heaven and in earth, why would he need a son?

[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
****People of the book are followers of the old testament bible.

[112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.
[112.2] Allah is He on Whom all depend.
[112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
[112.4] And none is like Him.

[2.213] (All) people are a single nation; so Allah raised prophets as bearers of good news and as warners, and He revealed with them the Book with truth, that it might judge between people in that in which they differed; and none but the very people who were given it differed about it after clear arguments had come to them, revolting among themselves; so Allah has guided by His will those who believe to the truth about which they differed and Allah guides whom He pleases to the right path.
 
By the same argument, if God owns all heaven and earth, why would he create us? What glory can we bring Him that would be worthy, except that which He enables us to give? Through Christ, God has made us worthy. This could not be possible if Christ was not worthy himself.
 
Cain's wife

The bible seldom records the birth of females, the birthrite, bloodline and lineage are all passed through the males.
Either Cain married one of his sisters born from Adam and Eve, or he married a female serpent, perhaps the mate that was intended for his true father - the serpent that satan used to seduce Eve, and was later changed into a snake. See my posts on the "Giants" pages 1 and 2 of Subcultures/psudoscience/bible, ufo's giants- thread. It explains how this happened.
 
There weren't any laws that prohibited what we would now call 'incest', so it's possible that Cain slept with his sister. There wouldn't have been much genetic reasons not to.
 
heflores

If you understand that God is a spirit, thats why no man hath seen Him. But he had attributes to be expressed, Sons and Daughters of God. And He manafested His first son in Adam. Adam was not created through sex or came through a woman. He was created by the power of the spoken word. But Adam fell, and the only way to restore man-kind to an unfallen state was to send another son of God created by the spoken word, not sexual desire - because that was the source of the fall , to die for our sin . You see sin required death, thats why Jesus had to die for us. Jesus was God, manifested in human flesh, created by the spoken word of a prophet 800 years earlier, :"a virgin shall conceicve" and born of a woman so he could fulfill all the scriptures requiring a kinsman redeamer. (the story of Ruth and Boaz) Abel received this revelation from God, being a true son of god, a child of Adam and Eve, and reflected this revelation in his sacrifice. Cain was of his father the wicked one and recieved not this revelation. Adam was not his father, the serpent was. In some arabic languages the word serpent still means "ape" to this day. His children today can not receive revelation either. They build cities and science to lean upon their own understanding instead of faith in God. They start false religions based on other Gods or mis-interpretations of the true God,
The children of Ishmail are sons of Abraham, but through an illigitimate birth. The son of the bondwoman, The children of Isaac are the sons of Abraham through the promice of life, the birth of a son that was a miracle promised 25 years earlier, buy one who visited Abraham and made him the promise. It was Melchesidec, God veiled in human flesh, no mother no father no beginning of days or ending of life. And Christians today by receiveing Christ, the promised son are heirs of the promise, by revelation using the faith Abraham had believeing in a promise, strong in faith calling what was not as though it was. It's a revelation from God. Think for a moment, Cains children, running from God, leaning on their own understanding, built the first cities, and became the articifers of brass and iron, the creaters of musical instuments. Arabic culture boasts of one of the worlds oldest advanced civilizations. Modern mathimatics are all derived from ancient arabic mathimatics. Look at Baalam, a prophet for hire trying to curse Israel. Why do the Ismailites - the muslims continue to try to curse the children of Israel to this day....He who curses Israel shall be cursed, he who blesses Israel shall be blesed.
 
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Re: heflores

Originally posted by TheVisitor

"The Mohammedan today believes in one true God. And they say, "There is one true and living God, and Mohammed is his prophet." And we say (Christians) there's one true and living God, and Jesus is His Son." That's the difference.


Who the hell are Mohammedan....Don't you know the breaking news that Muhammed is dead (1500 years ago) and that Muslims only worship god?
We are muslims (submitters to god). You are Christians (followers of christ). We believe that Jesus is a prophet of god, you don't believe that Muhammed is a prophet god. So christians are doing to the muslims the same thing that the jews are doing to them, exclusive club, don't believe in anything that comes after. So next time you feel like complaining about the jews not believing in Jesus, think about the same thing you're doing to the muslims by discredeting their prophet.....Nice going all christians, you've been taught well by the jews.

[2.285] The apostle believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His apostles; We make no difference between any of His apostles; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
By the same argument, if God owns all heaven and earth, why would he create us? What glory can we bring Him that would be worthy, except that which He enables us to give? Through Christ, God has made us worthy. This could not be possible if Christ was not worthy himself.

Jenyar, this is Atheistic talk, you're attributing to god a physical humanly and animalistic trait which is the ability to have sons and daughters. We are all his humble servants and worshipers and for him to just accept us as such, then we have won. The other option is not to accept us at all. I know you're a believer, and should hold god to a higher standard than to attribute to him a physical son while he owns the whole world and heaven and is above having sons and daughters. God creations are full of miracles, and although Jesus virgin birth is a miracle, it's easy for god and is not any harder than creation of Adam and Eve without father and mother.

[3.59] Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.

As far as Jesus Christ, I hate to use the name christ, because his beautifull name is Issah elmessaiah, meaning Jesus "the pure", or the "wiper of sin". The word Christ have no meaning in Hebrew or arabic, the word christians have no meaning. But I'll use it as agreed upon translation because you guys use it to refer to the same person. When Jesus will be asked in the future by god about his status to god and what he taught the christians, he will state the truth and that does not remove any from the glory of god, contrary it increases it:

[5.116] And when god will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides god he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.
 
So next time you feel like complaining about the jews not believing in Jesus, think about the same thing you're doing to the muslims by discredeting their prophet.....Nice going all christians, you've been taught well by the jews.

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We don't complain, we understand God supernaturally blinded the Jews to the messiah so the rest of the world - Gentiles - could receive the promise. God crossed Isaac's hands. Joesph, a type of christ, was sold to slave traders, but eventually assended to the right hand of pharoh, and while in the palace married a "Gentile" bride. It was done to preserve life. This is the end of the "dispensation of the gentiles" and the Jews are not held accountable for God blinding them to save life. When this despensation is over, very soon God will turn back to the Jews, take the scales from thier eyes and they will see, and beleive in the messiah they missed two-thousand years ago. That is why we still believe they are God's people and it's our job to protect them. God will bless whoever blesses Israel, even to this day. Why do the muslims hate Israel so....The scriptures say the children of Ishmail are nomads, and wildmen. Hearts filled with hatred and murder - this comes not from God....
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor

We don't complain, we understand God supernaturally blinded the Jews to the messiah so the rest of the world - Gentiles - could receive the promise.

I see, he indeed blinded the christians too from seeing the muslims because they're also Isaac's decends just like the jews, although this day, noone checks your family tree, you can become jew, christian, or muslim automatically. Ever checked your family tree TheVisitor, you might be decedant of Ismael, so be carefull before you start making general statements about people that have not even been born and god has not even have a chance to judge. But, it's all so typical for you to judge before god does, you see, you must believe you're his deciple doing his work.
 
[5.116] And when god will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides god he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.

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I do not condone the religious organizations that call themselves "Christian". The catholic church is called the "mother of harlots" in the book of revelation and is an enemy of true christians and has been since before the time of your mohammed. At the nicene council in 325 A.D. the "church" united with the state of rome and began to put to death for herecy all who disagreed with them....And since that time in these last days, the protestant churches who came out of her to "protest" her abominable ways, have reconciled with her and are now refered to as her harlot daughters or the abominations of the earth with names of blasphamy on their forehead. Blasphemous names - Baptist, methodist, catholic, ect... they do not create true christians, because Christ is the Word and they do not teach their people the true, full, unadulterated word, they teach their traditions and creeds making the Word of God of non-effect to their people. They then create more baptists, methodists, or catholics. But this is not true christianity. Christianity is a small persecuted group, and has been since the time of the apostles.
Jesus never made a God of his mother mary, nor did our true apostles worship him in the flesh, or divide Him into three pieces and make Him a trinity of Gods. He was God, but his flesh was a man. How can this be?.....He came in the office of a prophet as "Son of Man", a prophet as promised, but the God-prophet, the messiah. He died, rose again and assended to heaven to intercede durring this dispensation of the gentiles as "Son of God".
He promised to return, and has in this day as "Son of Man" to call His people out of "Babylon". Next He will send two prophets to the Jews. In the milliniem, He will sit on His throne with His "Gentile Bride" taken from this dispensatation, and reign as "Son of David".
 
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Ever checked your family tree TheVisitor

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As I said, our claim to Abraham is not through a physical linage. It is by faith in Christ, the promised son, whom Isaac was only a type of. This promise applies to all the peoples of the world.
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor

As I said, our claim to Abraham is not through a physical linage. It is by faith in Christ, the promised son, whom Isaac was only a type of. This promise applies to all the peoples of the world.

So the all mighty god does not want people to believe in him straight, they need to have a faith in the made up son, before the dad will accept them....Sounds like greek methology to me.
 
So the all mighty god does not want people to believe in him straight, they need to have a faith in the made up son, before the dad will accept them....Sounds like greek methology to me.

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Rightousness was atributed to Abel, because he received revelation that it would take the blood of an innocent one to attone for sin. The Lamb he sacrificed was a type of the messiah to come. Cain received no such revelation. He murdered Abel.
I see a pattern here, that still exists today.....do you?
 
God is not a rock, He has a personality. His "personality" is Jesus. His living shadow is the Spirit. We cannot fathom God, we have to be content with what He has made known about Him. What we call "son" and "father" are human descriptions of aspects of God we cannot comprehend otherwise. What we understand is 1=1=1. Through the Son we know the Father, and the Father has sent His Spirit to live inside us so that we might recognize the Son. Like a circle that cuts though everything: physical, spiritual and religious.

Where did Muhammed get his visions from? God, or an angel?
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
The Lamb he sacrificed was a type of the messiah to come. Cain received no such revelation. He murdered Abel.
I see a pattern here, that still exists today.....do you?

No I see no patterns. I'd like to hold my judgements on people until I find proof of guilt or innocence. That is the definition of justice. The other crap is myth that cause wars and is used to brain wash people and justify evil.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
God is not a rock, He has a personality. His "personality" is Jesus. Where did Muhammed get his visions from? God, or an angel?

Jenyar there is a logic for how god communicates with us, and we don't have to attribute animal behavior like sonship to god or steam charachteristic or water, ect.. to understand. To directly answer your question concerning Prophet Muhammed, it was Archangel Gabriel transmitting the message behind the veil. But we have to understand many things before we can capture the essence of how god communicated with his prophets in general including Prophet Jesus.

First

All the states and acts of God's noble Messengers bear witness to their prophethood, but not each of them need be miraculous. For God Almighty sent them in the form of a human being so that they might be a guide and leaders to human beings in their social affairs, and the acts and deeds by means of which they attain happiness in both worlds; and so that they might disclose to human beings the wonders of God's art and His disposive power that underly all occurrences and are in appearance customary, but in reality miracles of Power. If, then, they had abandoned the human state in his acts and become paranormal in all aspects, they could not have been a leader, or have instructed human beings with their acts, states and aspects. they were, indeed, honored with paranormal phenomena in order to prove there prophethood to obstinate unbelievers, and, in case of need, occasionally performed miracles. But there miracles never occurred in such an obvious fashion as would have compelled everyone to believe, whether willingly or unwillingly. For, in accordance with the purpose of the tests and trials that man is to undergo, the way must be shown to them without depriving them of free will: the door of the intelligence must remain open, and its freedom must not be snatched from its hand. But if miracles had occurred in so apparent a way, intelligence would have had no choice; coal would have had the value of diamonds, and no purpose would have remained for testing and accountability. It is a source of amazement that while thousands of men of different character came to believe through observing a single miracle, or a single proof of prophethood, or a word of the prophet, or through merely seeing the face of a prophet, for us now a day, we believe by seeing the word in the Quran and Bible. But we need to be carefull to base our faith in truth and to investigate translations, interpretations, bible studies, ect.

Second

God's most noble Messengers are human beings; Moses, Jesus, and Muhammed are all humans. hence they act like a human being. They are also messengers, and from this point of view they are interpreters and envoys of Almighty God and the revelation, which falls into two categories: The first is explicit revelation. In this case, the Most Noble Prophets are merely an interpreter and announcer, and has no share in the content. The Quran and some Sacred Narrations are included in this kind of revelation. The second is implicit revelation. The essence and summary of this is also based on revelation or inspiration, but its explanation and description are left to the Messenger, Jesus teachings fall in that category. When a prophet explains and describes such revelation, sometimes he again relies on the other revelations or inspirations, or sometimes he speaks in terms of his own insight. And, when he resorts to his own interpretation, he either relies on the perceptive power given him on account of his prophetic mission, or he speaks as a human being and conformably to the usage, custom, and level of common comprehension. Thus, all the details of every prophetic narration are not necessarily derived from pure revelation, nor should the lofty signs of messengership be sought in such thoughts and transactions of his as required by his human state. Since some truths are revealed to him in a brief and abstract form, and he himself describes them in the light of his insight and according to common comprehension, the metaphors and allusions in his descriptions sometimes may need explanation, or even interpretation. There are indeed some facts that the human mind can grasp or by way of comparison.

Third

If any related tradition is related by numerous reliable authorities, it is in disputable. This form of relation is called "Unanimous".

There are two kinds of "Unanimous". One is 'pure Unanimous,' the other is 'Unanimous in meaning.' The latter (Unanimous in meaning) is also of two kinds: The first includes those which are 'agreed upon by silence. For example, if a man relates an incident in front of his community, and the listeners do not contradict him, that is, they respond to him by keeping silent, this implies their acceptance of the report. In particular, if that community consists of extremely truthful and honest individuals in such a degree that they would reject any error, consider any lie as reprehensible, criticize any wrong-doing and in addition show an interest in the reported incident, the silence of that community strongly testifies to the incident having indeed occurred.

The second kind of 'Unanimous in meaning' is that which occurs when, for example, different people relate a certain incident in different accounts but are unanimously agreed on the occurrence of the incident. This also becomes Unanimous in meaning, and the actual occurrence of the incident is not harmed by differences in detail. But apart from this there are also cases when a report supplied by even a single person may be regarded as definite, with the degree of Unanimous under some certain conditions: when supported by evidences instead of (many) narrators such a narration also becomes definite.

Most of the reports concerning the miracles and the evidences of the prophethood of God's most noble Messenger fall into the three categories of Unanimous as mentioned above. As for the others, although they are transmitted through the report of only one person, they also have the certainty of Unanimous since they have received the acceptance of the meticulous authorities on tradition. Of such meticulous authorities were those geniuses who were called Al-Hafiz, who had committed to memory at least 100,000 narrations, offered for fifty years their morning-prayer with the ablution of the night-prayer, and produced the Six Accurate Books of narration headed by those of Bukhari and Muslim. [Other 4 books are Sunens of Ebu Davud, Tirmizi, and Nesai, Muvatta of Imam Malik.] Without doubt any report scrutinized and accepted by them cannot fall short of the definitiveness or Unanimous. For they acquired such intimacy with the traditions of God's most noble Messenger, became so familiar with his exalted style and manner that they could at first sight spot a single false narration among several hundred reports, and would reject it, saying, "This cannot be a prophetic narration; it does not have his wording.' Since they were able to recognize the precious qualify of the prophetic narration, like an expert jeweler, there was no possibility of their confusing any other word with that of the Prophet. Some researchers, however, such as Ibn al-Jawzi, went to such extremes in their criticism as to regard many accurate narrations as false. Nevertheless, this does not mean that the meaning of every false wording is wrong; ratter it means that the wording itself is not that of the Prophet.


Fourth

Since none other than God knows the Unseen, God's Messenger too could not know it himself. Instead, God Almighty communicated to him the tidings of the Unseen, and he transmitted them. And since God Almighty is All-Wise and Most Merciful, His Wisdom and Mercy require that most of the matters of the Unseen be veiled or obscure. For in this world events disagreeable to human beings are numerous; prior knowledge of their happening would be painful. It is for this reason that death and the appointed hour of death are left obscure, and the mishaps that are to befall human beings remain behind the veil of the Unseen.
 
heflores

You follow the words of a prophet who's been dead 1400 years.
What has God been doing since then....Do you know.
He doesn't just sit still. In each age he has a messenger, and a message. Those in that age who "hear" that messenger, and accept that message, accept the one who sent it...God.
This proves their ability to receive revelation.
The rest don't see it, and huddle around their old traditions and creeds, believing theres safety in numbers, because the message they follow is from another age and has already been accepted by the multitudes.
But God has moved on...The new message for each age calls the names of it's elect.
Those following yesterdays message, are trying to get warm next to a painted fire, eating yesterdays manna.
It's rotten, and wormy with little wiggletails in it, and it can't bring life.
Today's message from God is this: Rev 10:7

" In the days of the VOICE of the seventh angel, when he begins to sound , the mystery of God should be completed, as it hath been revealed to His servants the prophets."

http://freie-volksmission.org/english/
http://www.bibleway.org/wmb/audiolib.asp
http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=921

God still uses prophets today, and He has something to say...today.
God has "Sons and Daughters", He has no grandchildren...
His people have to receive the message He sends for them, in the day they are living....
Not the message He sent for some other people in some other day.
 
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Re: heflores

Originally posted by TheVisitor
You follow the words of a prophet who's been dead 1400 years.
What has God been doing since then....Do you know.

Making sure the universe work in harmony, what the hell are you talking about? And yes the prophets are gone, they're all dead and gone. The Quran is not the words of the prophet, It's a godly revelation, read my post above. I'm sick and tired to typing answers only so you can just repeat your questions again.

I've seen some of the Christian pastors these days with their claims that Jesus dwells in them and their propaganda about being able to do miracles, ect. I've seen TV show of them casting demons....Oh my gosh...if you believe in any of that stuff, please say so shortly, don't elaborate, because this kind of talk disturb my stomach, If you believe in any of this garbage, then we're light years apart in thought process and should not be communicating.
 
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