International Press Conference, Mexican DoD (UFO)

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The type you are speaking of, Skywalker, is night vision through image intensification.
It is different from FLIR technology. I'm surprised you 'scientific' skeptic types haven't looked it up, or maybe you have and just don't want to reveal the results. Here are
a couple of links for anyone wanting a basic understanding of how both work and a
short cut & paste:
"The essence of these new goggles is “sensor-fusion,” which combines conventional night-vision technology (called image intensification or I2) and thermal sensors (forward-looking infrared).

The I2 wavelength offers a clearer image and can see through glass windows. However, image intensification requires that there be sufficient light to intensify, which makes it ineffective in an Afghan cave. For example, “there was an immediate interest in IR [infrared] on the head when we went to Afghanistan, because of the caves,” said A. Fenner Milton, director of the Army’s Night Vision and Electronic Sensors Directorate.

On the other hand, IR relies on thermal contrast—heat emitted by the target versus the heat emitted by its background—which provides images with better contrast than I2, and can see through obscurants such as dust and smoke. “It requires very little temperature difference between the target and its background for the sensor to detect the target,” said Milton."
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=1390

This site has a good basic description of both technologies. I will link to the page
starting with how electrons emit different frequency photons because it is necessary
to understand how FLIR works, then go to the 'next page' at the bottom of the article
after reading each page. It is interesting and is geared to the layman.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/nightvision2.htm
 
I obviously cannot comment on the FLIR device used on the Mexican aircraft, but in the case of the device I used in Honduras, it most assuredly was a thermal imaging device and not an image intensifying device as with the nightvision goggles that we carried (at that time AN/PVS-5's).

I'm reasonably sure of this because on nights when ambiant light was absent because of moonless, overcast conditions, the Thermal was the only means of "seeing" targets. In addition, targets such as people, cattle, vehicles were often visible due to their heat signatures even when concealed behind barriers that would block image intensifying devices.

Finally, when the target was painted, the thermal device picked it up as a distinct, straight line connecting the target to the laser. Perhaps there was redundant image intensification optics built into the device... that I don't know. I'm only telling you what is possible.
 
But you know what, 2inquisitive? Your comment set me to thinking (even though I was slightly confused by the "skywalker" designation... I thought you were replying to someone else for a sec): did my memory of "seeing" the laser come from using the thermal or the NVGs? The NVG's were always present on the Huey since we ran in blackout mode nearly 90% of the time. I dug out my photo album and, sure enough, there's a photo of my pal Kevin with his NVG's on getting ready to board a UH-1.

So I looked up some more info. According to Joint Pub 3-09.1 (US, 1999), "IR pointers cannot designate for LSTs, and NVGs cannot see the LTD mark. Forward-looking infrared (FLIR) systems are not compatible with LTDs, LSTs, and/or IR pointers."

Source:
US (28 May 1999). Joint Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures for Laser Designation Operations. Joint Pub 3-09.1. http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/new_pubs/jp3_09_1.pdf
 
Sorry, SkinWalker, I didn't call you skywalker intentionally, I guess my mind was on
the content I was posting and I didn't even notice the goof-up. I had read that the
FLIR was unaffected by bright lights and they can still be used on a hot day without
the 'hot air' blinding them, so to speak. I had seen images of jets in flight made with
FLIR imaging and the hot exaust gasses do not register, but the engine area does
show up as brighter than the rest of the plane. So I could not imagine how the beam
from a laser could register on FLIR, unless the air contained a lot of solid particles a
high-powered laser was heating up and the hot particles were generating infrared
radiation. I have also recently read where the FLIR SaFire ll used on the Mexican
plane can be equipped with a laser illuminator, but NVG night vision googles are necessary to see the illuminated area. I also read that a bright light does not 'bloom'
on FLIR, it only registers the infrared heat signature of the object emitting the light.
So, my conclusion is that a laser pointed at the FLIR camera would not cause a large
display to be shown on the screen. I gather you reached the same conclusion. The
FLIR reads a totally different wavelength than either regular light or laser light produces, I believe this particular one reads the 3-5 micron wavelength. It also reads
the same wavelength from even a cold object, as they too emit infrared radiation.
 
moementum7 said:
So were those just balloons or what?
J/K
Click to expand...

Moementum, didn't you know? The reason why we have heard no other explination other than ball lightning is because this is a big conspiracy.... YES.

This is a big conspiracy to make sure we don't find out about those 15 story balloons that like to fly around Mexico invisable, because they are then next BIG WEAPON!!! From what I've heard, they are not only loaded with helium, but a bunch of stinking crap that will explode upon landing (they are unmanned) and cause such an evil stench, people will run for miles!!!


Anyhow, Moementum, what is your take on those two balloon-like objects being 15 stories tall? These guys are too busy talking about trivial details too even respond to my statement. 15 stories tall!!! I'm serious. That is kinda scary.
 
quote:

"15 stories tall!!! I'm serious. That is kinda scary."
==============================================================

Mine was bigger. :)
 
Yep, I can't help but think of a metaphor,
The entire forest can be burning around you, but your so caught up in looking at a single leaf from a single tree and claiming, "I see no fire, show me this fire.",then continue to look at the leaf.

But thats how independant logic works.
Couldn't be any other way.

Honestly, yes these objects over mexico are indeed another phenomenon that will escape independant logic.
I already have my beleifs.
There really is no more information, pictures or details that can convince me more or less. I have seen crafts myself, and I myself can see the whole forest.
I have no idea what those were over Mexico.
But I find it more rational to beleive them to be of intelligent design than anything natural. Quite easily.
Sure it is possible they were man made, but to me, it's just as possible that they were alien in origin.
50/50.
Either way, somethings up.
And I believe we are going to see this "up" in our life time.
Cool,crazy,scary,inevitable, whatever.
 
I've been reading the posts on this and one other site for a couple of weeks now, just to try and catch up on the latest re the Mexican Airforce vid and after seeing some of the personal hostility, I felt I had to post here myself.

I myself am niether a believer nor a disbeliever in alien spacecraft ever visiting Earth but I think it's a big and common mistake to place such a possibility in the realms of 'pseudoscience'.

The fact is that the current age of the universe combined with the number of stars in our galaxy makes it likely that technologicaly advanced civilisations have already evolved many millions of years ago in this galaxy. If they have not colonised much of this galaxy by now then either intelligent life itself is extremely unlikely to occur, or surviving and colonising space is much more difficult than we can imagine.........something which would not make our own long term future look hopeful.

It's easy to ridicule most 'eyewitness' reports and I'm sure that many such reports are either exagerrated or completely fabricated but it's not so easy to rubbish the dozens of reports made by airforce pilots (sometimes backed up by ground and onboard radar) from around the world dating back to the 1940s. Then add to that the numerous statements made by very high ranking-now retired military personnel, not to mention US presidents!

Of course all this is not enough to make me a 'believer'. There is no 'proof' but there IS lots of evidence and the possibility of such visits by ET craft in no way whatsoever conflicts with our current scientific understanding.

If we are being closely observed, then it would seem there is no wish by them to make contact with us yet, which would be quite understandable. However I'm sure the possibility of detection would not be sufficient to prevent any such observation being carried out. After all we ourselves could be a major 'spacefaring' race in the near future, which I'm sure would be a great concern to any race already out there.

To summerise, (speaking as a skeptic) to seek a terrestrial explanation for any UFO event is pefectly reasonable but anyone who rubbishes the idea itself is either ignorant or stupid.
 
Tonystringy said:
It's easy to ridicule most 'eyewitness' reports and I'm sure that many such reports are either exagerrated or completely fabricated
Click to expand...

That's what investigation is for. To determine witness reliability, intelligence, sincerity, etc.

If you take a look at the many thorough objective investigations done by competent researchers, you will see that a great many of the eyewitness were determined to not be exaggerating for fabricating.

Of course there are always hoaxers. That's why we can't just take anyone at their word. But if you have objective outside analysis of eyewitness statements, in many cases you can determine the credibility of the witness.
 
Hi Tony.
This is what really confuses me more than it should.
To me, you have the level headed, rational perspective of .....the current state of our existence, and the very real possibilty of other races.

No, you will not be able to beleive until you witness something for yourself.
Thats just being sane if you ask me.
Even though now that I have seen an event myself, putting me on the other side of the looking glass, there is so much evidence recorded in ancient texts of some of our oldest civilizations depicting knowledge of our solar system to such accurate detail.....
Does this fucking rabbit hole ever end?!
Kidding. Sort of.

Anyways, welcome to Sciforms, and hope you continue to contribute.
 
Thanks for the welcome moementum7!

On the subject of ancient civilisations........here's something I found on the web some time ago. They're form separate sources. I have not looked into them any further but they did strike me as interesting because of their similarities.

Alexander the Great had two UFO encounters that were recorded. During his invasion of Asia in 329, while crossing a river, Alexander and his men saw what was described as gleaming, silver shields in the sky. The objects repeatedly swooped down at the soldiers, scattering men and horses and creating quite a panic. Seven years later, while attacking a Venetian city in the eastern Mediterranean, observers on both sides of the conflict reported another incredible event. Objects appeared in the sky. One of the objects suddenly shot a beam of light at the city wall, crumbling it to dust. This allowed Alexander's troops to easily take the city.

One time while King Citaketu was traveling in outer space on a brilliantly effulgent airplane given to him by Lord Vishnu, he saw Lord Siva..."
"The arrows released by Lord Siva appeared like fiery beams emanating from the sun globe and covered the three residential airplanes, which could then no longer be seen."
- Srimad Bhagasvatam, Sixth Canto, Part 3

"Gurkha, flying in his swift and powerful Vimana, hurled against the three cities of the Vrishnis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as the thousand suns rose in all its splendour...An iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas....The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without apparent cause, and the birds turned white....After a few hours all foodstuffs were infected.... To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment..."
- The Mahabharata

"When the Rishi City of Mohenjodaro was excavated by archaeologists in the last century, they found skeletons just lying in the streets, some of them holding hands, as if some great doom had suddenly overtaken them. These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on a par with those found at Hiroshima and Nagasaki."
"Futhermore, at Mohenjo-Daro, a well planned city laid on a grid, with a plumbing system superior to those used in Pakistan and India today, the streets were littered with 'black lumps of glass'. These globs of glass were discovered to be clay pots that had melted under intense heat! "
- D. Hatcher Childress, "Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology"

Serov, Russia - Hundreds of awestruck eyewitnesses reportedly watched in shock and disbelief as at least 36 UFOs waged a spectacular dogfight above a Russian air base! The incredible aerial battle, which took place at an altitude of about 5,200 feet, was seen by witnesses not prone to hysteria or exaggeration, including members of the Russian air force, military intelligence officers and two visiting foreign journalists, from Poland and Latvia.
"For approximately 12 minutes, the sky was ablaze with death rays fired from the battling starships," says Polish news reporter Igor Wroclawski, who was there to cover an air show scheduled for the next day. "Several of the craft that were hit appeared to be damaged by the rays and one of them caught fire and crashed into the mountains." The dogfight erupted at 2:05 a.m. on May 11 at an air base near Serov, at the foothills of the Ural Mountains, according to Wroclawski. Radar first detected two groups of massive objects entering Russian air space, one from the northeast, the other from the west, like giant schools of fish. "The base was put on full alert," says the correspondent, who first told his story on Polish radio. "When I went outside in my pajamas, some of the soldiers were standing there, pointing up in the sky," says Wroclawski. "I looked up and I could see dozens of saucer-shaped objects circling overhead." The unidentified vessels appeared to be about 90 feet in diameter, he said. Within minutes of the initial radar sightings, the two sets of flying discs opened fire "The weapons were as deafening as thunder and they lit up the entire night sky," says Wroclawski. "It was terrifying to watch." After 12 minutes, one fleet of UFOs took off to the south, with the other group in hot pursuit. Wroclawski claims he snapped a photo of the air duel, but it was seized by intelligence officers.

Not taking the above too seriously......just food for thought.
 
Tonystringy said:
Not taking the above too seriously......just food for thought.
Click to expand...

Thank, er, for that. If we were to start taking folklore seriously, we have to start believing in Dragons, Unicorns, Pixies, and all manner of creatures. I mean, why would folklore pertaining to UFOs be any more compelling than stories about Dragons?
 
Thanks for that Tony.
Great food for thought.
Don't mind Phlog.
He usually comes here when hes got nothing else to do.
Which isn't to often thank goodness.
You would think some one as smart as him would have something better to do than spend his time with a bunch of quacks. Like find a cure for cancer or something.
Right Phlog? Right.
You know Phlog, you should take that argument to the religious section and explain that perspective about the bible.
I am sure they would love you there, as much as we do here anyways.

Thats the first time I have heard any of those depictions Tony.
Awesome to say the least. Actually Quite amazing.

Speaking to you Tony, isn't that funny how some people can put the possibilty of ET into the same category as unicorns and dragons?
Scientifically, rationally, and even common sense tells us that life is possible.
I mean, whos typing this? Duh.
Now why wouldn't life be possible elsewhere?
Because of the fact that WE exist, can only lead to a rational perspective that it is possible to exist elsewhere.
Beleiveing that we are the only ones in existance is NUTS. IMO.
These people might be able to make it in life in one way or another, but they have to be severely deficient in some ways. Or they just link WAY too much pain to beleiving in the possibilty of other life.
And if they do beleive in the possibilty of other life, then what these guys are saying is that they (because they put this topic in the same area as pixies) beleive in the possibilty of pixies.
Messed up.
Now of course, guys like Phlog wil come back on and say something like," well er, umm, Yah there is the possibilty of other life out there (so now there sayinig,well yah there is the possibilty of Pixies out there)Messed up) but they would never be able to travel this far, or why would they want to visit us, or why don't they show themselves.....blah blah blah.
(Now I'm talking to phlog)
Make a stand and outright say that the possibilty of other life is impossible.
Period.
Or from this point on I have to assume that you are a equilibrium disturber.
I know you are intelligent, because I can see it in your ability to express ideas.
I know for a fact that you are going to come back and say that yes," other life IS possible", and lets leave it at that.
That is the premise for this whole forum.
The rest is dependant upon personal experience.

I am talking this way to show you how a few of the members of sciforms are Tony.
To save yourself time and effort dealing with these perspectives.
They do not come her for the motive of learning, but wedging in their own perspectives for some type of self affirmation in their own paradigms.
Which I understand.
Just like myself, your good nature may want to share what you have learned with these guys, but they always take it like its being shoved down their throats.
They come from a place of offense.
I am sure you will learn soon enough on your own, and I seriously do beleive that these types of members are just doing what they beleive to be best.

But any ways, thanks again for that info.

Hopefully soon I may be able to share some info as good as yours.
Running out of time, have to go to work!
Peace Out
 
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moementum7 said:
isn't that funny how some people can put the possibilty of ET into the same category as unicorns and dragons?
Click to expand...

UFOs too. I see that all the time. A good example of a completely flawed analogy.

UFOs have manifested themselves in physical reality in modern times, and have been categorically analyzed as well.

Dragons, demons, ghosts, monsters, unicorns, etc. etc. et al have not.

There is no relationship. The comparison comes from the fact that a lot of people prefer to dump everything they don't understand into one category. Maybe that makes it easier for them to deal with it.
 
You just said something compltely differnent. UFOs on earth are quite different than dragons/unicorns. ET however is still in the same category.

Anybody that 'knows' that UFOs don't exist is omnipotent.

Anybody that 'knows' that ET is in those UFOs is:
a) omnipotent
b) making a guess
c) has information they don't feel like sharing
 
Persol said:
Anybody that 'knows' that ET is in those UFOs is:
a) omnipotent
b) making a guess
c) has information they don't feel like sharing
Click to expand...

Ah, but he said possibility not certainty.

There is clearly no way to "know" what or who is in control of UFOs at this point.

However, the "possibility" that it is ET is certainly a reasonable one given the evidence, and is not remotely in the realm of ghosts, dragons, unicorns, etc.

The US gov. first hypothesized that it might be ET more than 50 years ago. That remains a possibility today, although not proven.
 
coolmacguy said:
UFOs have manifested themselves in physical reality in modern times, and have been categorically analyzed as well.

Dragons, demons, ghosts, monsters, unicorns, etc. etc. et al have not.

There is no relationship. The comparison comes from the fact that a lot of people prefer to dump everything they don't understand into one category. Maybe that makes it easier for them to deal with it.
Click to expand...
No phlogistician was making a point.

Actually a lot of people will disagree regarding ghosts manifesting themselves in reality in modern times...

Yes unidentified objects are still being seen in the sky today just as they have been for centuries. This is not extra proof for alien visitation though.
 
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