International Press Conference, Mexican DoD (UFO)

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Stryderunknown said:
If you still think it's a UFO
Click to expand...

It was and is a UFO.

It will cease to be once someone has conducted a thorough investigation and determined it to be something else.

If you think you have reached this point without even examining the firsthand evidence, you are sadly mistaken.

You would at least have to look at the full original FLIR video, the radar data, full statements from the crew, details of the Mexican military's investigation, and numerous other things, none of which is yet available to the public. Until many different qualified people objectively examine all this, the jury is most definitely still out on this sighting.
 
coolmacguy,
The same could be said for "If it isn't" right?

Thats why conclusions of it being unexplained is again drawn too quickly, it's currently unknown what it is, but an overall investigation will deduce that it is something otherwise, you wouldn't know of it's existance.
 
Stryder, a two month investigation by the Mexico Department of Defense
was unable to identify the objects. At present, they are UFOs, UAPs or
whatever you want to call them, all meaning UNIDENTIFIED. If they are later
identified through additional investigation, the will be IDENTIFIED, no longer
UFOs. That identification could be something of a terrestrial orgin or it could
be determined that they were solid objects that cannot be explained by
known earthly technologies. Even then, they would not be identified and
remain UFOs, not necessarily 'alien craft' because it could be they
represented secret, unknown human technology, depending on the data.
This IS scientific investigation, because there is data to examine and
interpret, much more than looking at a picture and saying it 'looks' like
something.
 
2inquisitive,
What was your take on the lazer pen experiment in a previous post?
 
Stryder, I do not have a $400,000 FLIR camera. I don't think it makes any difference,
as a laser is just coherent light within the visible wavelength. The images from the
FLIR camera is from the invisible infrared wavelength, a longer wavelength. The FLIR
camera is not a regular camera and it does not record 'heat' as images. It records
the infrared radiation generated by an object. Even an icecube generates infrared
radiation, as does anything above absolute zero, but I doubt if that particular camera
is engineered to detect infrared from very cold objects. When I said a laser was coherent visible light, I was speaking of your laser pen. I have heard of x-ray lasers,
for instance, but not one using the longer wave length of the infrared spectrum.
Infrared light is less 'energetic' than even visible light, so I wouldn't know of a good
use for such a laser. It is much easier to think of the Star Safire ll as reading an
energy source than it is to think of just recording heat, which it doesn't do. I know
very little of the actual physicis of the FLIR system, just what I have researched and
read since this incident occured. I do know they are limited in range and the range
varies with intensity of the source of the radiation and its size. From what I have
read, a certain number 'half-cycles' have to be reflected from an object before it can
be detected. The size and infrared intensity both have an effect on range. Radar is
also limited in range by the size and reflective qualities of an object. Clouds are registered by the FLIR because of the infrared radiation emitted by the various particles in the clouds. I read where the hot exhaust gasses of a jet engine are NOT
registered by the FLIR, but the hot surfaces of the engine itself are emitting infrared
and are what is detected. The leading edges of a fast moving plane's wings are emitting infrared radiation because they are heated by atmospheric friction. Confusing,
I know, but the experts are very much aware of how FLIR works and can narrow
down what the images are and what they are not. They are not 'hot air' from a balloon
or atmospheric gas balls. The plane changed directions and the experts can see from
the recorded images and data that the objects did also. They have data on the direction of the plane and on the direction of the returns. I am not an expert, so I
cannot interpret tha data myself, but there are many who can and have investigated
and there are many more are still investigating.

I will retract what I said about infrared lasers, seems some of the red lasers
can be produced in the infrared spectrum.
 
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FYI Stryder, Bruce Maccabee who is conducting his own investigation stated that he would like to obtain a FLIR camera to perform similar experiments.

I agree that would be a good area of things to test out.

If your theory stands up to experimentation, I would of course accept it. However, you cannot simply declare that this sighting is no longer unexplained simply because you believe your theory to be the best explanation.

Investigation and experimentation first. Conclusions second.
 
"One, they look exactly like balloons.

Two, balloons operate at 14,000 feet all the time.

Three, the plane "followed" them, not the other way around. No mention is made of airspeed. A range of two miles is noted in the transcripts, but who knows."


So, they look like balloons. Not true, because they only look like balloons in one shot where you see two of the 11 in close proximity Remember, the explanation for that was there is a bounce effect from the FLIR that doubles the object to look like two objects.

And as for your followed comment on surrounding the plane, you are mistaken. It isn't mere coincidence when the objects you are following on the FLIR disappear and then show up on the FLIR on every side of the plane two miles to every side.

Give it up guys. IMHO, if I was a skeptic, I would seriously forget the crap you think it is, and go with the bird theory.

BIRDS DAMNIT!

I watched em tonight fly overhead. They travel in some weird ass formation. Not like any humans would do, but more like geese in a 1, 3, 2, 1,2 formation, yet consistently staying in that position.

Geese I will agree with!!!
 
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2inquisitive said:
Stryder, I do not have a $400,000 FLIR camera. I don't think it makes any difference,
as a laser is just coherent light within the visible wavelength. The images from the
FLIR camera is from the invisible infrared wavelength, a longer wavelength. The FLIR
camera is not a regular camera and it does not record 'heat' as images. It records
the infrared radiation generated by an object.
Click to expand...
An object, includign air. Because of this visible wavelength lasers are visible on FLIR systems... they heat up the air.
 
I read that those two objects that appear to look like balloons are in fact 15 stories tall.

That is pretty high, even for a balloon.
 
Persol said:
An object, includign air. Because of this visible wavelength lasers are visible on FLIR systems... they heat up the air.
Click to expand...

Persol, that statement is only slightly true. Most visible wavelength lasars
are not powerful enough to heat up the air to any detectable amount over
large distances. If lasars were pointed at the Mexican plane that were
powerful enough to heat the air between the laser and the plane, they
would also have heated the plane and destroyed the eyes of the crew
who were looking out the windows for several minutes trying to see the
objects. They knew where to look and would have been looking right at the
lasers. Again, FLIR cameras detect the invisible infrared wavelength of
photons emitted by an electron excited by heat. If the atoms, and thus
the electrons, are heated too much, the energy and the wavelength of
the photons changes to the visible spectrum, first becoming red, visible
red light. The FLIR camera they used is designed to operate on the infrared
spectrum, detecting photons emitted from a cooler source. The returns they
picked up would have been warm, but not red hot. That is why the FLIR
camera they used can detect the infrared emissions from a warm jet engine, but not the very hot exhaust gasses from that same engine. It detects a
certain range of the electromagnetic spectrum, the infrared range. Even
your home remote control devices use infrared, but use the near-infrared
spectrum closest to visible light. The detector mounted in the TV or whatever, picks up this invisible light from your handheld remote control
to operate the TV. The handheld remote is not 'hot' and it does not heat
the air between it and the TV. It does generate infrared signals by 'slightly'
heating elements within the remote control. That is where infrared photons
they detected came from, warm objects, not 'hot' objects, and not just hot air.
 
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Actually 2niquisitive,
The lazer pen example started with a video camera with a remote to deal with deciding when to record etc, when you pressed the button the remote would send an infrared signal to a receiver near the lens.

when playing the video back, you could see when the remote was activated because it caused the end of the remote to glow up, although you couldn't see that with the naked eye.
 
Yes, Stryder, the video camera picked up the infrared signal that is invisable to the
human eye. It can record a wider range of the EM spectrum than the human eye can
see. The $400,000 FLIR camera they used is designed to record a narrow range of
the EM spectrum, the infrared range, which was also included in your regular video
camera's range. But unlike your regular camera, it was not set to record the visible
EM spectrum as well. An image from an FLIR camera recording the same scene would
have been a little different, with warmer objects brighter, for instance a warm iron
like used to iron clothes would have been a larger and brighter image than the image
of a light bulb in the same scene. The visible light from the bulb would not have been
recorded, just the less intense infrared spectrum from its smaller- than- the- iron infrared signature of the heat radiated from its surfaces. A warm object in total darkness will show up as a bright object on an infrared image.

When I said the infrared range was included in your video camera, I was speaking of the near-infrared spectrum of the remote control. Near-infrared
is very near regular visible light. The FLIR records a much larger range of
infrared that would not be recorded on your regular camera, like the warm
object in total darkness I mentioned.
 
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I've used FLIR system to detect hot spots on trains. It can most definetely see a laser.
 
Your trains have lasers on them? What wavelengths does your FLIR system record?
Does your system see the 'beam' of the laser or just record the heat signature on
the end of the laser itself?
 
I'm suprised we haven't dragged James R into this topic just for his thoughts on Lasers, My personal opinion is that it's not heat thats seen but the wavelengths stirred by the excitement of the molecules surrounding the area of a heated surface, and those wavelengths would exist within a lasers beam even without any heat being outputted, since in a sense a laser is in this case made up of those wavelengths the same level as those excited molecules.
 
-STRYDER said:
My stance on ETI is simple, I know somewhere else in the universe there will be many other different types of lifeform that are unlike what we have on our planet, However I doubt they would be secretly visiting or manipulating us or our world, afterall SETI has been scanning the skies for years and still turned up no alien civilisation.
Click to expand...

what qualities have you ascribed to eti and why? how do you infer characteristics when eti's existence is not even verified? by what yardstick do you measure eti and their intentions? personally, if i had to speculate on eti behaviour, i would anthropomorphize and assert that secretive and manipulative actions is exactly what they would do. why? because it is what we do. i see no need to idealize these little green men.

scout ships, reconnaissance and benign infiltration is the smart way.

about seti. the efforts have been rather modest and selective in its scope. i see no need to give the impression that the scan is anywhere near complete. i believe the sphere of radio noise emanating from earth to be just 120 light years across. that is a drop in the bucket no?
 
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Hathor said:
However I doubt they would be secretly visiting or manipulating us or our world, afterall SETI has been scanning the skies for years and still turned up no alien civilisation.
Click to expand...

Isn't that an illogical exclusion?

If they were actually visiting us, why would they need to send radio signals?
 
Well I would suggest that ETI's out there are from a mixed bag, they could be at the start of their evolutionary curve something that would want to be watched by those that had similar evolutionary starts, or they could be far more advanced in which case they would probably stay clear of us until we presented ourselves in the correct manner.

I infer Characteristics based upon what we have on our planet, to say we are the only green isle within a sea of barren isles would be an incorrect assumption, the laws of probability suggest that there are other planets out there like our own harbouring different life forms to our own at different evolutionary levels.

As for yard stick, understand that we know that our backstabbing and paranoia is our own worst enemy, as a planet our future should be destined to attempt to overcome these traits and replace them with understanding and co-operation. Together we could do anything if we didn't have that nasty habit of trying to put people down to get a little more ahead of where we were (Greed is something that has to be removed).

My suggestion is that if ETI have got to the point of being able to do all the many things that peoples imaginations tell them they can, then the likelihood is they would be trying to do things as a co-operative, working for a common cause and our best way of dealing with such instances in the future is to do exactly the same and follow our own(Species) common goals.

Secretive manipulation isn't all that, I mean it's known for years how some scientists treat their laboratory experiments, their animals and guinea pigs in cages with as much respect as you would suggest aliens treat those abducted. They do horrible tests on the creature and for what purpose.... probably a new brand of cosmetics, however did the animal realise that being forced to have eye drops given to them every four hours was a service to a higher specie? Or did the animal just feel complete despair and loss at trying to understand the logic of an oppressor?

Perhaps you have to be a guinea pig to appreciate why being one isn't so great.

I suppose I've lacked courage to outstretch and fully suggest things without suffering the same ridicules as believers do with skeptics. (Just in my case I would get it from both sides). However that would be for another thread.

However I will say, Why ETI, Why not Parapsychologists and Time manipulation?
 
I used to use a device very similar to modern FLIR back in 1985-86 in Honduras to conduct surveillance from a Huey. I forget it's name, but the technology was very similar and precursor to the modern FLIR. From the air, we could fire a laser to a target to paint it for other thermal/IR users on the ground.

Yes. FLIR can see lasers.
 
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