If you don't believe in evolution, you also can't believe in...

[Proud_Muslim]

Okay, let me explain more clearly since you don’t understand the example. The Nautilus has eyes that are quite a lot like our except that they do not have a lens to focus the incoming light.
~Raithere

You see, you again failed to answer how half evolved eye can see ! you talked about Nautilus as having an EYE, you did not tell me how in the evolution nonesense half evolved eye can see !

Basically, I want to know wheather evolution includes EYES as well ?

 

[Proud_Muslim]

You see you are again running away from my main question, instead you are posting general information about human eyes !!

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Another QUESTION regarding the DNA refute the evolution NONESENSE:


DNA Double Helix: A Recent Discovery of Enormous Complexity:

The DNA Double Helix is one of the greatest scientific discoveries of all time. First described by James Watson and Francis Crick in 1953, DNA is the famous molecule of genetics that establishes each organism's physical characteristics....

[remainder of unattributed cut-and-paste deleted]

 

[spuriousmonkey]

'A Half-Developed Eye Cannot See'

A half-developed eye sees better than no eye.

 

[Bells]

You see, you again failed to answer how half evolved eye can see ! you talked about Nautilus as having an EYE, you did not tell me how in the evolution nonesense half evolved eye can see !

Basically, I want to know wheather evolution includes EYES as well ?

My God, it's like the light's on but nobody's home. Are you that thick? The question has been answered again and again and you still can't comprehend it.

You see you are again running away from my main question, instead you are posting general information about human eyes !!

What in the hell is the main question? You asked about evolution of the eye and you got a response but you found it to be false and instead posted an article (without sources by the way) about how the human eye was created. I replied with an article that states that if it were created then God stuffed up because the human eye is NOT perfect and has many faults. Do you understand now?

You want to know about how the eye evolved? Here's a dumbed down version for you:

Here's how some scientists think some eyes may have evolved: The simple light-sensitive spot on the skin of some ancestral creature gave it some tiny survival advantage, perhaps allowing it to evade a predator. Random changes then created a depression in the light-sensitive patch, a deepening pit that made "vision" a little sharper. At the same time, the pit's opening gradually narrowed, so light entered through a small aperture, like a pinhole camera.

Every change had to confer a survival advantage, no matter how slight. Eventually, the light-sensitive spot evolved into a retina, the layer of cells and pigment at the back of the human eye. Over time a lens formed at the front of the eye. It could have arisen as a double-layered transparent tissue containing increasing amounts of liquid that gave it the convex curvature of the human eye.

In fact, eyes corresponding to every stage in this sequence have been found in existing living species. The existence of this range of less complex light-sensitive structures supports scientists' hypotheses about how complex eyes like ours could evolve. The first animals with anything resembling an eye lived about 550 million years ago. And, according to one scientist's calculations, only 364,000 years would have been needed for a camera-like eye to evolve from a light-sensitive patch.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html

While yes they do talk about the human eye, the same principle can be applied to other animals. Now if you can read that and comprehend it we can move on. Otherwise, stop wasting people's time with your childish stupidity.

 

[crazymikey]

However, with the discovery, mapping and sequencing of the DNA molecule, we now understand that organic life is based on vastly complex information code, and such information cannot be created or interpreted without a Master Designer at the cosmic keyboard.

The argument of the paucity of comprehension. If I don't know its X, then it must be Y. That would mean every unexplained magic trick in the world, is actual magic
It's possible in a self-organized system, and no intelligent designer is needed. It's a sub-routine the universe implements to eliminate redundancy. As in once a complex structure is obtained, it is done more efficiently subsequently. Applying this to organic life, once the first self-replicating microorganism is obtained, the subsequent organisms are created more efficiently. Just like for every every subsequent innovation in technology, we do not need to reinvent the wheel.

So much for that argument

Oh, and if our instance of life is designed intelligently(a misnomer) how can you be sure it is God? Using your paucity of comprehension argument, I could say, if you can't prove it's God, then it's Satan.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

A half-developed eye sees better than no eye.

This is the most outrageous claim I ever heard from ILLUSIONISTS !! is that what evolution make to your brain ???

 

[spuriousmonkey]

This is the most outrageous claim I ever heard from ILLUSIONISTS !! is that what evolution make to your brain ???

You don't think that you will see better with an eye whose lens is misformed than no eye at all?

 

[Raithere]

How hypocrties all of you, you and flores were at each other throats when I am away, now when I came back you all gang with each others against me !!

I really wonder why you’re here PM. I have nothing against Flores, I find her intelligent and insightful. We’re rational adults though and we have the ability to discuss, debate, and disagree without mistaking our disagreements for personal attacks. Being able to do this without becoming full of rage allows us to learn from each other things we might not otherwise learn. Flores and I may disagree about Evolution and many other things but that does not make us enemies.

You on the other hand, do perceive me as an enemy, despite the fact that I’ve never done you any harm and only wish you well. In fact, you seem to perceive everyone who disagrees with you as your enemy and that’s a dangerous attitude.

if you think flores is representative of Islam then you are mistaken

I think that she’s a better representative than you are. I live in a large metropolis, a multicultural community. I know many Muslims, some very orthodox and strict, some liberal and lenient. I work with them, talk to them, eat and drink with them. We discuss TV, movies, books, news events, politics, religion, and work. I encouraged my friend and coworker through his difficulty with nicotine withdrawal during his Ramadan fast and let him leave early so he could be home by sunset. Not one of the Muslims I have known has ever demonstrated the rage and enmity you do PM, not one.

The thing is I think it would be incredibly interesting to know you better. I know very little about Syria, particularly about what daily life is like there. I think it would be very enlightening to find out more. What is your media like? Do you trust it as unbiased or do you see reasons to question what gets reported in the public media? What about your government? What is your neighborhood like? Is everyone in your area Muslim? What is it like growing up and being a teenager? You could tell me so much; help me to understand your point of view and your opinions; help me to understand your culture and your country… and maybe I could even teach you something about mine.

But you won’t. You’re on a crusade. The moment I disagreed with you I became your enemy because you cannot abide any dissent to your opinion. I’m just the DISGUSTING, SELFISH, MATERIALIST, INTELLECTUALLY HOPELESS ATHEIST to you.

but oh well, if you think if she agrees with you out of FEAR will make her the right muslim then good luck

Apparently you haven’t really been reading the posts because she doesn’t agree with me. But even if she did it would not make her any less of a Muslim. You assume too much PM. You are self-righteous, judgmental, narrow minded, and tyrannical. But you are not Allah. You are not the judge of Flores, me, or anyone else.

~Raithere

 

[Proud_Muslim]

My God, it's like the light's on but nobody's home. Are you that thick? The question has been answered again and again and you still can't comprehend it.

General statements dont amount to answer.

I replied with an article that states that if it were created then God stuffed up because the human eye is NOT perfect and has many faults. Do you understand now?

So I will go with your BULL about the imperfection of the creation of the eye, shall we say it was EVOLUTION who stuffed up because the human eyes is not perfect !!!

You put yourself in very difficult position with no exist place !

While yes they do talk about the human eye, the same principle can be applied to other animals.

So you are equating human eyes with that of animals?? even Raith did not make such stupid claim !!!

Now if you can read that and comprehend it we can move on. Otherwise, stop wasting people's time with your childish stupidity.

you stop wasting my time with you evolution BULL, you will never convince me of your bull, so keep trying, it is all amusing.

 

[crazymikey]

Raithere, I think you are being too generous to this dunce called PM. He's an out and out fanatic, Islamic supremist, with not an ounce of respect for you, me, and other religions and systems of beliefs. He talks shít - so treat him like shít. You are only giving him what he wants - attention.

 

[Raithere]

You see, you again failed to answer how half evolved eye can see ! you talked about Nautilus as having an EYE, you did not tell me how in the evolution nonesense half evolved eye can see!

Which half, the right half or the left half?

There's no such thing as half an eye PM, that's not how evolution works. You'll never get 'half' of something only things that are more complex or less complex. What I have shown you is that all the parts of the human eye are not necessary for an eye to see. An eye that is less complex than a human eye can still see, just not as well.

Basically, I want to know wheather evolution includes EYES as well ?

Yes.

~Raithere

 

[crazymikey]

You'll never get 'half' of something only things that are more complex or less complex.

So, if PM has an IQ of 85, and you have an IQ of 170 - could we say, PM has half an IQ?

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I really wonder why you’re here PM. I have nothing against Flores, I find her intelligent and insightful. We’re rational adults though and we have the ability to discuss, debate, and disagree without mistaking our disagreements for personal attacks. Being able to do this without becoming full of rage allows us to learn from each other things we might not otherwise learn. Flores and I may disagree about Evolution and many other things but that does not make us enemies.

Oh please, dont personalize the issue now, it is not about flores.

You on the other hand, do perceive me as an enemy, despite the fact that I’ve never done you any harm and only wish you well.

Did I declare you as an enemy ?????

In fact, you seem to perceive everyone who disagrees with you as your enemy and that’s a dangerous attitude.

It is the other way around, you perceive everyone who disagrees with you as someone who is not educated, backward....etc...typical western self-rightous hypocritical attitude.

I think that she’s a better representative than you are.

Sure, someone who claim to be Muslim and appear in Bikini is better representative than me !!!!

You guys love such kind of Muslims, Muslims who imitate you blindly on the expense of their faith...but nah, you wont find that in me even if all of you here ganged against me...that will only increase my resolve.

Not one of the Muslims I have known has ever demonstrated the rage and enmity you do PM, not one.

I did not demonstarted any rage and enmity my friend, perhaps you live in the virtual world, dare and make fun of ISLAM in front of those muslim friends of yours and let us see how tolerant will they be ?????

The thing is I think it would be incredibly interesting to know you better. I know very little about Syria, particularly about what daily life is like there. I think it would be very enlightening to find out more. What is your media like? Do you trust it as unbiased or do you see reasons to question what gets reported in the public media?

Syria is the most beautiful country on earth, it is 6000 years old, under every sand of my land there is a story of an invader or conqueror....you should try to visit it one day.

The media there is largely controled by the government, so it is not trust worthy, we have satellite TV though where we watch all the BS coming from the CNN and FOX JEWS..we have at least 200 channels to choose from in our taking on the news, the best is AL JAZEERA.

What about your government?

My government is run by young educated president who is trying to improve our lives but restricted by the old guards who were with his father during the past 30 years when one dictator run Syria.

What is your neighborhood like? Is everyone in your area Muslim?

My neighbourhood is very anceint, I live in a place with around 50% christians, eastern christians, I live beside a church and that was never a problem.

What is it like growing up and being a teenager? You could tell me so much; help me to understand your point of view and your opinions; help me to understand your culture and your country… and maybe I could even teach you something about mine.

Sure, I like you when you show respect, maybe we should understand that we came from 2 very different cultures and that if you want to understand ISLAM, you have to go to the original sources, not some hybrid deformities like flores.

I grew up in very connected society, I have around 100 memebr of my extended family, we knew our neighbours by name to the 10th block, we live in blocks of flats ( 4 floors ), we lived very peaceful life, no crime at all, not a single house have been stolen in my neighbourhood...

The Magnificent Castle of Aleppo ( the biggest in the world ).

I came from an ancient city called HALAB ( Aleppo in English), it is situated to the north of Syria, it was the city that most of SALADIN's army who crushed the crusaders came from ( my heroic ancestors ). when you dig to lay down a foundation for new building, you will find in Aleppo 7-9 layers of cities, each belong to different civilization, my heritage is very very rich of all sort of cultures and civilizations, it has been crowned by ISLAM.

Aleppo's Main public Garden.

<img src="http://almashriq.hiof.no/syria/900/the_lure_of_aleppo/title-big.gif" width=400>

The ancient parts of Aleppo.

Aleppo at night: the Majestic lights of the Orient.

But you won’t. You’re on a crusade. The moment I disagreed with you I became your enemy because you cannot abide any dissent to your opinion. I’m just the DISGUSTING, SELFISH, MATERIALIST, INTELLECTUALLY HOPELESS ATHEIST to you.

No, you are wrong, you are not my enemy, you can disagree, but disagree with RESPECT, I have special respect for you for your ability to reason not like other western hypocrites.

Apparently you haven’t really been reading the posts because she doesn’t agree with me. But even if she did it would not make her any less of a Muslim. You assume too much PM. You are self-righteous, judgmental, narrow minded, and tyrannical. But you are not Allah. You are not the judge of Flores, me, or anyone else.

I dont care about her, I was trying to help her but she suddenly switched sides and started attacking me with no reason, I dont judge, but I ask you not to judge as well, I ask you not to compare me with flores, because we are very different, I dont get any pleasure from being associated with her.

I got very disappointed with her reaction, she bites the hands that try to help her !

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Yes.

~Raithere

Thank you, you said the evolution includes the EYES, this is what I want to hear, the topic is over, because such statements indicate the bankruptcy of the evolution.

 

[crazymikey]

No, Proud Muslim, evolution does not include the eyes. The eyes are designed by the creator, and stuck on the rest of the body, when it's evolved

 

[Bells]

So I will go with your BULL about the imperfection of the creation of the eye, shall we say it was EVOLUTION who stuffed up because the human eyes is not perfect !!!

Oh dear lord. It's like talking to a severely autistic child. I shall ask you again to read the articles in the links I posted above. They are written very plainly and simply that even YOU could understand.

You put yourself in very difficult position with no exist place !

Huh?

So you are equating human eyes with that of animals?? even Raith did not make such stupid claim !!!

And it seems that you have severe mental comprehension issues. I said that the PRINCIPLE could be applied. And to point out to you, humans are also animals.. we are mammals.

you stop wasting my time with you evolution BULL, you will never convince me of your bull, so keep trying, it is all amusing.

Why are you even in this thread if you find evolution to be bull? Why are you discussing evolution if you find it to be false? Are you meant to be the voice of reason offering truth to the masses in regards to where you think you come from? Because you're failing badly.

Oh please, dont personalize the issue now, it is not about flores.

No it is not. You are the one who is calling her an unproper muslim. Who are you to say anything such thing? You are not God, therefore it is not your place to judge others.

I dont care about her, I was trying to help her but she suddenly switched sides and started attacking me with no reason, I dont judge, but I ask you not to judge as well, I ask you not to compare me with flores, because we are very different, I dont get any pleasure from being associated with her.

You don't care about her but you were trying to help her? She wasn't attacking you PM, none of us were. You take any discussion as a form of battle. You start ranting like a madman when something is said about Islam, but you will gladly put down other religions. You do judge PM, you judge others as being hopeless, atheists, unbelievers, and lets not forget the silly little cow worshiper comments you keep coming out with. You judge all others. If someone is a muslim and disagrees with you, you call them a bad muslim or not a true, real and proper muslim. If someone agrees with you, you'll instantly say 'ah yes you understand Islam'. You act like a petulant child that has been told the word 'no'. You say you do not get any pleasure from being associated with Flores, but you call her sister. PM you view yourself as being a representative of Islam, but you are not. I see Flores as being a better representative of Islam then you any day. I see others such as Pakman, Outlandish, Ghassan as being better representatives of Islam than you... because they do not hate as you do. They do not spout hateful messages like you do. They do not judge people. You accuse us of threatening Flores to agree with us, but if you'd bothered to read you'd have realised that we weren't agreeing. We were discussing and arguing on points. She at least can conduct herself in a manner that is intelligent and I find her to be a worthwhile opponent. You are only representative of your version of Islam and having shown some of your posts to Islamic friends and family members, they too think that you are a fundamentalist and someone who thinks himself to be better than others because of his religious belief. You are a human mammal like everyone else PM. You bleed red blood like all others and you have the same organs as everyone else. You are the same as everyone else on this earth.

Oh and by the way, nice photos. The ancient parts of Aleppo look stunning.

 

[Michael]

'A Half-Developed Eye Cannot See' In order for an eye to see, all of its parts have to co-exist and work in harmony.

This is all wrong.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Bells:

Hate is like beauty, in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[crazymikey]

The Syria tourist department are at it again. Allow me to interest you in a better location, where the following happens:

1: It is not illegal to drink alcohol
2: Women do not have have to accompanied by a man at all times
3: Women do not have to cover their face in public
4: Women will not be allowed to drive
5: Your limbs will not be decapitated for stealing
6: Beareded men will not wave AK-47's in front of your face
7: The state is not run by the military
8: The life of a non muslim is not worth less than the life of a muslim
9: You will not have any free will, and free speech, and must consider yourself a slave of God.

Those places are: Too many to name.