If you don't believe in evolution, you also can't believe in...

[Proud_Muslim]

While I realize that it makes you feel better to think of us as hopeless, some of us are quite hopeful.

hopeful of what ???

 

[Flores]

Flores
I apologise for comparing you to PM. You don't even come close in religious fervour and fanaticism.

And I apologize so much for my little unfounded outlash about your upbringing...I can't think straight when I see myself so misunderstood to the point of being compared to PM......friends again till our next evolution discussion.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

PM I have my family, loved ones, friends, and all the rest of it. That is what I have and that is what matters to me in my life.

Another peice of lies, I bet your mother is in eldery home living alone because people like you dont want to take care of those who took care of them when they were young.

I know very well all about you and your culture, dont give me this bullshit crap.

And no you don't have the truth PM. The only truth you have is the truth that your religion tells you. It is not your truth, but the truth of someone else which you believe in.

'

Islam is not someone else, you cant even comprehend what Islam is !

Yes PM, you evolved while the rest of us are hunter gatherers You'd be amazed at how difficult it is to try and install power points in a cave.

it is not evolution, it is ILLUSION, how many times I need to explain the nonesense of the evolution ?? I am still waiting to hear your answers about how the HALF EVOLVED EYE can see !!!!!! and oh, the DNA evolution as well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You claim that your religion allows you to live an organised life and a life that is disciplined? Well I too live such a life and mine is done through having an organiser and an alarm clock.

organizer and alarm clock !! you see, you guys live MATERIAL LIFE, you always look down on material things, you cant comprehend the meta-physical, if you dont see something you dont believe in it, it only show your sorry state of mind.

You see PM, the difference between you and I is that I devote all that love to things that matter to me, my family and loved ones. You claim that your religion is your life, well my life is my life and those I am close to are also my life. Without them I would not be here today.

Again, piece of BS....will you take your mother home and clean after her when she get old ? or will you do as MOST 'CIVILIZED' Westerners by dumbing her in an eldery home to die alone?????

I know where I'm going and I know who I am. I know where I came from. The reason I am here is because my parents decided to have a child and hence I was born.

And where your parents came from ? and where their parents came from ?

You did not tell me where you are going ????????????????

I don't need any religion to define my identity PM. I lived my life and I know who I am deep down.

Your writting tells who you are deep down, confused lost soul, May GOD almighty show you his majestic lights...ameen.

PM, if you can't define who you are without any religion then that is beyond sad.

You see, it is again this western SELFISH MATERIAL way of looking at things, EXTREME FANATICAL INDIVIDALISM !!! this extreme western individualism is what driving the western civilization down the drain.

That borders on fanaticism and obsession. And to 'cure' a flu I stay in bed and drink lots of liquids ... all by myself.

WRONG, it is not all by yourself, you needed lots of liquids, ever wondered where these liquids came from ????

Every wondered what drove you to stay in bed ??? your sense ? your logic? who initiated all that ??????? you ?? who intiated you ?????

I do not have to be spoon fed my beliefs by others. I make up my own mind. If you like to be told by others what to believe in, then knock yourself out.

It depend on your defenition of others !!! No one told me to be Muslim, I CHOSE ISLAM by myself, IRONICLY, I decided to follow Islam after my encounter with the western way of life and the western culture during my studies in the U.K.

Before, I was just Muslim because my parents were ones, now, I am Muslim because I CHOSE to be Muslim, thanks to the DECAY in the western culture that shows me ISLAM is the only way.

How is my denying belief in religion denying the existence of God? I was not aware that one had to be entrenched in religious fervour to believe in God.

You can believe in God but you cant reach him by twisted methods, Allah Almighty sent this world hundred of thousands of prophets, he sealed them with prophet Muhammad (pbuh ) he showed us the ONLY REMANING WAY to reach God, you cant reach God by committing acts that anger him like the COW WORSHIPING for example !!

You see, here in lies the difference between you and I. My greatest honour is that I am loved by my parents, family and loved ones. They are my number one priority, and they bring me the greatest pleasure. Nothing comes close to the love I have for them.

You see again, it is MATERIAL PLEASURE related and depending on their existence, if you just use your brain that God gave you you will realize that your loved ones WILL NOT live forever and so your happiness and honour is SHORT LIVING while mine is ETERNAL because mine is related to the ALLAH THE ETERNAL, TO ALLAH IN HIS INFINITE MAJESTY.

MASSIVE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME AND YOU.

If I had to choose between a religion or them, they'd come first no matter what.

They are mortals, religion is EVER LASTING.

If I had to choose between God or them, my family would still be chosen above all else.

Your family is mortal, God is ALIVE FOR ETERNITY.

I view my family and loved ones as being a part of who I am and I thank them daily for allowing me to be alive and to be where I am today.

Dont thank the mortals for things they cant control, thank the ONE who created them and you for making you to be alive and to be where you are today.

If it wasn't for them, I'd be much poorer.

Poverty is sometimes blessing, richness is sometimes DISEASE, it is HE, ALLAH ALMIGHTY who decided who will be poor and who will be rich since you are small tiny fetus in your mother belly.

You view religion as being your primary love and you view it as being your identity. I view my family and loved ones as being my primary love. My identity I formed on my own with their support and love.

You cant form identity on your own, you need culture, heritage,social surrondings and in your case indirectly religion like catholisim in your case.

I find such talk to be terrifying PM. Seriously, I find it disturbing in the extreme.

Sure, for someone who has no direction in this life, for someone who does not know who she is , I am sure the above will disturb you.

It seems that you have no true identity.

Cant you see my NICKNAME ?? my identity is ISLAM , I am MUSLIM, this is my identity and I am very very proud of it.

I find it amazing how anyone can view themselves in the manner that you have.

I dont find it amazing your reaction, after all, you are someone who does not know GOD, so I forgive your confusion.

In fact, I find it terrifying. Such fanaticism and zealotness always terrifies me.

Great, I love terrfying INTELLECTUALLY the hopeless souls...

You speak about Islam as though it is your very life, yet you do not even mention your family or loved ones in the equation.

My family and loved ones are too MUSLIMS, so by me considering ISLAM MY LIFE, THEY BECOME MY LIFE TOO...CANT YOU SEE HOW AMAZING ISLAM IS ? IT MAKES ALL MUSLIMS INTEGRAL DEEPLY CONNECTED COMMUNITY. but oh well, as I said earlier, you cant have an atom of feeling of what we Muslims feel....what a loss bells !!!

I find that scary. How you can let any religion define who you are as a person and as an individual is beyond me.

And who the hell you are to dedicate on others the way they should define themselves ??? or is it the same WESTERN SELF-RIGHTOUS BULLSHIT AGAIN in which every thing good for the westerners must be good for everyone else ????????????????

You are you PM and your religion is but a part of your life, it should not be the whole of your life.

WRONG, Islam is not part of my life, it is my WHOLE life.

The way you stated that above, it is as though nothing else matters but your religion, not even your family. Nothing should come before your family, not even your religion.

I explained to you already that my family are MUSLIMS, so they are too MY LIFE.

 

[Raithere]

We are hopeful regarding many things; than mankind can improve his condition though reason, understanding, and compassion; that we can work towards and end to the suffering caused by tribal loyalties, enmity, and ignorance; that someday everyone will have the right to seek out the truth that resonates in each of us and to speak those truths without fear of reprisal; that someday through knowledge and science we will overcome the limitations of biology and environment, feed the world and free the humans spirit; the hope that comes from living and working to improve the here and now rather than worrying over some fantastical judgment day; the hope that comes from knowing that your life, your responsibilities, your freedoms, your failures, and your accomplishments are entirely your own and not the possessions of some imagined father figure.



~Raithere

 

[Flores]

I explained to you already that my family are MUSLIMS, so they are too MY LIFE.

How the hell do you know who is muslim and who is not? I thought only god will decide that in the day of jugement. What if god decides that your wife should go to hell because she doesn't meet the Islamic expectation of god? How do explain your life now...a life that have revolved around disrespecting the higher order by labeling and judging people from the bottom of the pit.

Let the creator judge the creation...Bells is much more likely to see much more justice and mercy from god than she would find in you.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

It is amazing !!!

Those HOPELESS ATHIESTS ILLUSIONISTS were treating you like piece of shit, they were bounding you all the time...I came to your aid, dont be intimidated by them, dont let their numbers overcome you, you are MUSLIM, you have the truth, they are hopeless athiests, they have NOTHING.

As for your question about who is Muslim and who is not, it is NOT up to me to JUDGE, but Islam teachs us to look at the outside behaviour, the inside is for Allah almighty to judge.

Please sister flores, dont start another fight, I dont want to waste my energy debating you, I have some HOPELESS athiests to deal with, so can you please spare me your lashes ????

I am still waiting to hear THEIR ANSWER about how HALF EVOLVED EYE can see ????????

 

[Flores]

Please sister flores, dont start another fight, I dont want to waste my energy debating you, I have some HOPELESS athiests to deal with, so can you please spare me your lashes ????

Get down from your high horse you [deleted]....You are about to fall flat on your face, although It's hard to make you fall any further, you have officially hit rock bottom.......and how many times did I tell you to refrain from calling me SISTER.

 

[Flores]

Oh, I forgot,
what the hell are you doing here, wasting your time and energy on "HOPELESS ATHEISTS". Doesn't that make you a fool.....we are hopeless by your own account....so get going, attend to the rest of your Alqaeda spring courses....I think there are a couple of thousand more hopefull brains out there for you to wash.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Ok flores........I am sorry I came to help you, please carry on debating evolution with them.

 

[Flores]

Great, I love terrfying INTELLECTUALLY the hopeless souls...

Thank you for clarifying your position. You are an educated terrorist.

 

[Flores]

Ok flores........I am sorry I came to help you, please carry on debating evolution with them.

You have no idea how much harm have you costed me. I might as well start back at page five when you told us goodbye.

 

[Raithere]

I am still waiting to hear your answers about how the HALF EVOLVED EYE can see!!!!!! and oh, the DNA evolution as well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough with the kindergarten colors and font sizes already. Okay, what do you consider half an eye, PM? How about an eye without an iris or lens? How about an eye that is just a cup with photoreceptors at the bottom of the cup? How about an eye that's just consists of a patch of photoreceptors? All of these 'partial' eyes exist in various species that are alive today and they are quite functional.

~Raithere

 

[Raithere]

You have no idea how much harm have you costed me. I might as well start back at page five when you told us goodbye.

Don't worry about it Flores, I don't perceive PM as representative of your POV or Muslims in general and I doubt that anyone else does either.

PM, I gave you a reply regarding the eye so you can stop shouting about it. I've also responded to your query as to what I could possibly be hopeful about.

~Raithere

 

[P. M. Thorne]

TO: PROUD MUSLIM

Wow, you really let it loose! It gets annoying, does it not? The hypotheticals, and foolish digressions seem disrespectful to you and your religion, I think. Perhaps, at least part of the time, these who do this, are not as mean as they sound. Whereas you may not be interested in what I think or feel, I just wanted you to know that I respect your faith, your choices and even your hate; but in truth, I wish you did not hate. All who are in the west are not rich, have known what it is to be hungry, have lived without electricity, running water, an automobile, and have lived off the land. It is sad that so many of the newer ones know nature mostly from TV, but let us remember that they were born into a very massive and busy society. Our love can do far more for this world than hate. Do you think so. Peace. PMT

 

[Michael]

We are Islam... You will be assimilated.... resistance is futile...

*chuckles* I like it

 

[Bells]

Another peice of lies, I bet your mother is in eldery home living alone because people like you dont want to take care of those who took care of them when they were young.

Actually if you must know, my mother is having lunch with my father at her favourite restaurant on a mountain top not far from their house. After which they will go to the local beach and she will do her daily walk or lie down on a rug under a tree and read while my father fishes for a little while and she might even go for a swim if the water feels nice to her.. depends on her mood at the time I guess. Or she might just convince my father to stay there into the evening and they can have fish and chips while sitting on the sand and then go for a night swim. She's hardly old and decrepit and in need of a home.

I know very well all about you and your culture, dont give me this bullshit crap.

Really? I find that amazing that you could claim that PM since I've never once mentioned where I was born or what my culture actually is. So please tell me, how do you know all about me and my culture? Get a special message?

it is not evolution, it is ILLUSION, how many times I need to explain the nonesense of the evolution ?? I am still waiting to hear your answers about how the HALF EVOLVED EYE can see !!!!!! and oh, the DNA evolution as well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't you read? Those questions were answered about 15 to 20 pages ago.

organizer and alarm clock !! you see, you guys live MATERIAL LIFE, you always look down on material things, you cant comprehend the meta-physical, if you dont see something you dont believe in it, it only show your sorry state of mind.

Says he who types up his little messages on a computer . Yes PM we are all materialistic illusionists while you being so pious and pure get your messages on this forum by way of a magical scribe. So I have an organiser and an alarm clock? I also have a watch, TV, DVD, video, fridge, microwave oven, bed, lounge, dining table and chairs, art works by myself and others, oven and stove, car, computers, etc. Oh I'm such a materialistic beast... tell me PM, how do you survive without any of those things? After all, you accuse us of living a materialistic life so I'm assuming you do not own any goods such as those stated above? After all, if you accuse others of being materialistic for owning an organiser and an alarm clock, how materialistic would you view someone for owning a fridge, TV, computer, car etc? How materialistic are you?

Again, piece of BS....will you take your mother home and clean after her when she get old ? or will you do as MOST 'CIVILIZED' Westerners by dumbing her in an eldery home to die alone?????

Die alone? I beg your pardon dipshit, do not dare to put me in your warped sense of how you see the world.

And where your parents came from ? and where their parents came from ?

My parents come from their parents and so on and so on... right back to the point of life starting on this planet as a mere single cell life form and through a process of EVOLUTION to where I am today.

You did not tell me where you are going ????????????????

I'm actually about to go and put my washing out on the line if you must know. And what the hell is with all the ??????????????..... ?

Your writting tells who you are deep down, confused lost soul, May GOD almighty show you his majestic lights...ameen.

I am? Confused and lost? Maybe it is I who belong in a home for the mentally impaired if I'm suffering from dementia .

You see, it is again this western SELFISH MATERIAL way of looking at things, EXTREME FANATICAL INDIVIDALISM !!! this extreme western individualism is what driving the western civilization down the drain.

Oh this is a laugh. You accuse others of being fanatical when you yourself are ranting and raving with pretty coloured fonts about how you are nothing without your religion and how it is your life. MMM HMMM yeah we're all fanaticals PM... Do you want to know what is driving civilisation down the drain? It is people such as yourself who are so fanatical about their religious beliefs that they aren't even aware of their own identity. It is people who's fanaticism sees them view the world in a skewed manner as they are only seeing what is around them after being told what they should see. You are a fanatical Islamist PM, just like Bush is a fanatical right wing dickhead.

WRONG, it is not all by yourself, you needed lots of liquids, ever wondered where these liquids came from ????

No PM, I walked to the fridge and tap and poured those liquids into a glass all on my very own. And as to where those liquids came from? Well lets see now, the water comes from the tap and the orange juice comes from oranges.

Every wondered what drove you to stay in bed ??? your sense ? your logic? who initiated all that ??????? you ?? who intiated you ?????

Are you dim? What drove me to stay in bed is the fact that my body was aching and I felt sick. What initiated all that was the flu bug throwing itself around my body. Who initiated me? Initiated me into what? Was I supposed to take a pledge for something? To answer what I think you're trying to ask, I come from my parents PM, not some higher being. Would you dare to tell your mother that you do not come from her but come from God. I'm sure that after all the hours of labour she endured to put you into the world, she'd just love to hear you say that.

It depend on your defenition of others !!! No one told me to be Muslim, I CHOSE ISLAM by myself, IRONICLY, I decided to follow Islam after my encounter with the western way of life and the western culture during my studies in the U.K.

Before, I was just Muslim because my parents were ones, now, I am Muslim because I CHOSE to be Muslim, thanks to the DECAY in the western culture that shows me ISLAM is the only way.

Yet you live in the West? If it is such a decayed culture, I'd have thought you'd have high tailed it out of there. Ah but I forgot, you enjoy all the fruits of the decay, such as all the materialistic things you have in your house, but you bitch about it behind its back. You claim moral superiority because you are a Muslim and you see all the decay of the Western culture as being vile, but you are quite happy to live there and materially enjoy and gain from that decay all the while preaching to others about how better you are to anybody else. Hypocrite.

You can believe in God but you cant reach him by twisted methods, Allah Almighty sent this world hundred of thousands of prophets, he sealed them with prophet Muhammad (pbuh ) he showed us the ONLY REMANING WAY to reach God, you cant reach God by committing acts that anger him like the COW WORSHIPING for example !!

And did God come down from heaven and tell you himself that I can't reach him by what you called 'twisted methods'? And please enlighten me, what do you define as being a twisted method? I'm not interested what he said to the prophets, I'm interested in what God told YOU personally in regards to this. You do not know what God likes and dislikes. Should I have sacrificed a lamb for God to hear me?

You dare to pass judgement on Hindus but you balk at when someone passes judgement on Islam. You are no better than Vienna when he spouts hate about your religion as he does... you are just like him in your hate and disrespect of other religions. Hypocrite!

I don't hate or disrespect your religion PM. I just don't believe in religion. If I want to get closer to God I talk to him directly. Who are you to tell me that I anger God by talking to him? You are not God. You are a mere member of a religion trying to impose his self imposed superiority and judgement over others. Your religion is no better than any other religion and you are no better than anybody else. So I ask you, who are you to pass judgement on me and how I talk to God?

Sure, for someone who has no direction in this life, for someone who does not know who she is , I am sure the above will disturb you.

Ah but you see, I know who I am. I didn't have to let any religion tell me who I am or where I'm going. And fanatics always disturb me.

I dont find it amazing your reaction, after all, you are someone who does not know GOD, so I forgive your confusion.

Ah again you pass judgement. How do you know I don't know God? Who are you to say so? I forgive your confusion PM, but I do not forgive your stupidity.

My family and loved ones are too MUSLIMS, so by me considering ISLAM MY LIFE, THEY BECOME MY LIFE TOO...CANT YOU SEE HOW AMAZING ISLAM IS ? IT MAKES ALL MUSLIMS INTEGRAL DEEPLY CONNECTED COMMUNITY. but oh well, as I said earlier, you cant have an atom of feeling of what we Muslims feel....what a loss bells !!!

So if one day someone in your family told you they were converting to another religion or they were marrying someone who was not a Muslim, you'd stop loving them and disown them? You shouldn't love your family because they are Muslim PM, you should love them because they are your family. You don't love someone because of their religious belief, you love them because of who they are, regardless of religion.

And who the hell you are to dedicate on others the way they should define themselves ??? or is it the same WESTERN SELF-RIGHTOUS BULLSHIT AGAIN in which every thing good for the westerners must be good for everyone else ????????????????

And who are you to judge others for what they believe in? I wasn't dictating to you PM, I was merely showing amazement and horror at the fact that you view yourself as you do. I was showing my sadness at the fact that you don't see yourself as having your own identity, only the identity that your religion tells you you should have.

Flores

friends again till our next evolution discussion.

Definitely agreed !!

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Enough with the kindergarten colors and font sizes already. Okay, what do you consider half an eye, PM? How about an eye without an iris or lens? How about an eye that is just a cup with photoreceptors at the bottom of the cup? How about an eye that's just consists of a patch of photoreceptors? All of these 'partial' eyes exist in various species that are alive today and they are quite functional.

~Raithere

I am sorry to disappoint you but this is not an answer, you failed to tell me how half evolved eye can see ????

[unattributed cut-and-paste deleted]

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Don't worry about it Flores, I don't perceive PM as representative of your POV or Muslims in general and I doubt that anyone else does either.

How hypocrties all of you, you and flores were at each other throats when I am away, now when I came back you all gang with each others against me !!

if you think flores is representative of Islam then you are mistaken, but oh well, if you think if she agrees with you out of FEAR will make her the right muslim then good luck.

 

[Raithere]

I am sorry to disappoint you but this is not an answer, you failed to tell me how half evolved eye can see ????

Okay, let me explain more clearly since you don’t understand the example. The Nautilus has eyes that are quite a lot like our except that they do not have a lens to focus the incoming light. Instead, their eyes operate much like a pinhole camera, since the ‘iris’ is so small only light that is narrowly focused can get in through the opening to hit the photoreceptors. Thus the eyes of the Nautilus are like human eyes except with a couple of features missing. The Nautilus can see fairly well despite the fact that it does not have a focusing lens or the ability to dilate its iris.

This is a living example of an ‘incomplete’ eye that still sees. There are many more examples available that share even fewer features with the human eye but in every case they do serve their owners needs. These living examples prove that your assertion is wrong.

~Raithere

 

[Bells]

The eye is one of the most manifest pieces of evidence that living creatures are created. All sight organs, including animal eyes and the human eye, are extremely striking examples of perfect design. This exceptional organ is so overwhelmingly complex that it surpasses even the most sophisticated man-made devices in the world.

It's a shame that God was unable to get it all right now huh?

"As an organ developed via the opportunistic twists and turns of evolutionary processes, the human eye is explainable. As an organ designed and created by an infinitely wise deity, the human eye is inexcusable. For unlike the invertebrate eyes ..., the human eye is constructed upon the foundation of an almost incredible error: The retina has been put together backwards! Unlike the retinas of octopuses and squids, in which the light-gathering cells are aimed forward, toward the source of incoming light, the photoreceptor cells (the so called rods and cones) of the human retina are aimed backward, away from the light source. Worse yet, the nerve fibers which must carry signals from the retina to the brain must pass in front of the receptor cells, partially impeding the penetration of light to the receptors. Only a blasphemer would attribute such a situation to divine design!"
Frank Zindler

This site is also good and easy to read and understand:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html