If Jesus died for our sins
- Thread starter jpappl
- Start date
The church would probably issue a bull concerning all other peoples’ on other planets and begin an inquisition for determining the extent of their heterodoxy.
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Today in Canada we just gave a baby killer 10 years with a reduction for time already served. What does this have to do with Christ you ask? Well it occurred to me that if God needed to be paid for accrued sin debt then today's Canada would not be a good place to have introduced Christ to the world.
Why? Because there is no friggin' way we would execute the poor bastard even if he decided to wipe out the entire city of Toronto. So what's that tell you about God's choice of venue for sin debt payments? I don't think it would have mattered when God decided to introduce Christ to the world but the Middle East was and is the best place to
go to ensure the debt gets paid. It's like guaranteed income or even a bail out.
Was there any doubt in God's mind that the populace would want & do the deed? If you need a guaranteed kill then there is probably no better ground on Earth to have it accomplished. If God decides that He needs a second installment then my money is on Him returning to the same spot to collect it. It won't be Canada, I can assure you.
Why? Because there is no friggin' way we would execute the poor bastard even if he decided to wipe out the entire city of Toronto. So what's that tell you about God's choice of venue for sin debt payments? I don't think it would have mattered when God decided to introduce Christ to the world but the Middle East was and is the best place to
go to ensure the debt gets paid. It's like guaranteed income or even a bail out.
Was there any doubt in God's mind that the populace would want & do the deed? If you need a guaranteed kill then there is probably no better ground on Earth to have it accomplished. If God decides that He needs a second installment then my money is on Him returning to the same spot to collect it. It won't be Canada, I can assure you.
LostInThought7
Registered Senior Member
Oi.
"Is a blood sacrifice required for every sin?"
Yes. Again, I don't have the program that lets me find verses easily, so if you can't take my word on it, sorry
"What I get from this, is that you could be an ass all your life, get re-born when you find out you have terminal cancer and get into heaven."
It's possible. How many Atheists find that they've lived their life in a way they don't like when they're faced with their own morality, and try and live the rest of their live the best way they can?
"So why would I or any decent person want to live with all of the pedophiles, murderers and general slime of society just because they repented at the last minute."
What you're feeling is vengeance, which is considered immoral by most human societies. If the person is no longer doing bad, what's the point of punishment? Forgiveness is a beautiful thing, you know, if the person has truly repented.
"Ah but as a catholic if you confess your sins your are again cleansed from sin so yes it is a free pass as long as ater you kill the person you go tell god about it and say sorry all is good."
I'm not Catholic, but from what I understand, even Catholics believe that you have to repent. Mouthing the words "I'm sorry" isn't enough.
"I understand the point of 'better life', but it appears the religion has allowed the 'belief in God' to be more important.
But there is no requirement to lead a better life. Just believe in god."
The institution requires that it has followers, that's the basic law of meta-evolution. An organized system requires that it lives and reproduces; the institutions that don't aren't the ones that linger for us to bitch about.
But True Christianity (tm) doesn't say you just have to believe in God. The devil believes in God, and that doesn't save him. In fact, Jesus had quite a bit to say on the matter (" But...Father, Father, I cast out demons in your name!" "Get away from me, I do not know who you are.")
"essentially anyone can apply by believing, no matter how they conduct themselves here on earth."
Yes, any person can apply, no matter how they acted, but salvation is a journey, not an emotionally-charged Wednesday night under a big tent.
"The reality is that these traits have evolved in us and kept by us for our survival, that much is clear. They aren't going away. "
Star Trek (a program with an Atheistic take on the future) shows how people learn to work as farmers to feed their brothers, not to be able to buy themselves a nice, new shiny car.
We are social creatures, but greed still perpetuates the machine of civilization. Can we evolve past that? Maybe, maybe not.
"I wanna know if Jesus died for the sins of people on other planets or if they have their own Jesus. "
Other creatures have their own laws. The angels will be judged by men, not Jesus. Humans have a unique (as far as we know) history, and set of rules. Maybe aliens never ate from the Tree, or they were never put in a garden to begin with. Who knows?
"Is a blood sacrifice required for every sin?"
Yes. Again, I don't have the program that lets me find verses easily, so if you can't take my word on it, sorry
"What I get from this, is that you could be an ass all your life, get re-born when you find out you have terminal cancer and get into heaven."
It's possible. How many Atheists find that they've lived their life in a way they don't like when they're faced with their own morality, and try and live the rest of their live the best way they can?
"So why would I or any decent person want to live with all of the pedophiles, murderers and general slime of society just because they repented at the last minute."
What you're feeling is vengeance, which is considered immoral by most human societies. If the person is no longer doing bad, what's the point of punishment? Forgiveness is a beautiful thing, you know, if the person has truly repented.
"Ah but as a catholic if you confess your sins your are again cleansed from sin so yes it is a free pass as long as ater you kill the person you go tell god about it and say sorry all is good."
I'm not Catholic, but from what I understand, even Catholics believe that you have to repent. Mouthing the words "I'm sorry" isn't enough.
"I understand the point of 'better life', but it appears the religion has allowed the 'belief in God' to be more important.
But there is no requirement to lead a better life. Just believe in god."
The institution requires that it has followers, that's the basic law of meta-evolution. An organized system requires that it lives and reproduces; the institutions that don't aren't the ones that linger for us to bitch about.
But True Christianity (tm) doesn't say you just have to believe in God. The devil believes in God, and that doesn't save him. In fact, Jesus had quite a bit to say on the matter (" But...Father, Father, I cast out demons in your name!" "Get away from me, I do not know who you are.")
"essentially anyone can apply by believing, no matter how they conduct themselves here on earth."
Yes, any person can apply, no matter how they acted, but salvation is a journey, not an emotionally-charged Wednesday night under a big tent.
"The reality is that these traits have evolved in us and kept by us for our survival, that much is clear. They aren't going away. "
Star Trek (a program with an Atheistic take on the future) shows how people learn to work as farmers to feed their brothers, not to be able to buy themselves a nice, new shiny car.
We are social creatures, but greed still perpetuates the machine of civilization. Can we evolve past that? Maybe, maybe not.
"I wanna know if Jesus died for the sins of people on other planets or if they have their own Jesus. "
Other creatures have their own laws. The angels will be judged by men, not Jesus. Humans have a unique (as far as we know) history, and set of rules. Maybe aliens never ate from the Tree, or they were never put in a garden to begin with. Who knows?
I would suggest that if we ever find others elsewhere we better be prepared to respect their belief system or systems. Judging by our reluctance to change with the better information, they probably all have these in place.
So, I would say they have their own version of Jesus for sure.
how are we supposed to answer that?
for one we dont know if intelligent life exists off the earth. to be honest, i always assumed it did\does but lately it occurred to me that there is a VERY good possibility that it does not.
Greed is always sin
Pride is always sin
Envy is always sin
Then your mind is faulty and you need guidance.
Your consience is God given even when you are an athiest.
Sin is sin.
Yes they are here to stay untill God intervienes and removes them. But while we are here we have the choice to either agree with and embrace the sins or we can disagree with and do ones best to resist the sins.
And survival is nothing because each and every one of us is destined to die. People doing evil and sinning to maintain physical life is a waste of time because each and every one of us is going to die.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
I didn't say you would be guilty.
If the law found you guilty, then your life would change.
That reality that you are now faced with is not dependant
on whether you are guilty, innocent, or ignorant.
The fact would be that through wrongfull association, you would fall
into that trap, and the only form of redemption would be the truth, despite
others opinions, or what occurrs during that life-changing experience.
jan.
Explain the difference, if you can. Sin implies no guilt?
You already explained it when you asked; "What sin, exactly, has a baby committed, for example?
A baby is incapable of commiting a sin.
The "original sin" sets the spiritual atmosphere in which we are born into which is an atmosphere of separation from God, and from this point (moment of birth) our journey begins.
jan.
You already explained it when you asked; "What sin, exactly, has a baby committed, for example?
A baby is incapable of commiting a sin.
The "original sin" sets the spiritual atmosphere in which we are born into which is an atmosphere of separation from God, and from this point (moment of birth) our journey begins.
jan.
Adstar,
No it's not. See the example below that I offered to Lori to show you why greed is not always a bad thing.
For example. You and your family, mother and father are crossing a field, it's extremely cold and everyone is struggling to make it, your nearly starving. You mother and father can no longer go on and you have 5 children to watch. It's greed that allows you to leave your parents to die, it's selfish greed that allows your children to live in that situation.
So is greed bad ? yes and no, it can be either.
In the situation I described, there is no good outcome, only a better option. If you stayed with the parents, you all die.
Each of these has it's place and it is not that they should be cherished, but neither is it realistic to remove them from us.
Ok, so then I don't need to believe in him at all then. Problem solved.
So why don't you just stop eating, what's the point. It's called instinct. We do what we need to survive and sometimes that is not pretty.
Survival is everything. It's not just about you and me, it's about all of us, the future generations and beyond. Yes, individually we are all going to die, but I for one want to live as long as possible, see my kids grow etc.
No it's not. See the example below that I offered to Lori to show you why greed is not always a bad thing.
For example. You and your family, mother and father are crossing a field, it's extremely cold and everyone is struggling to make it, your nearly starving. You mother and father can no longer go on and you have 5 children to watch. It's greed that allows you to leave your parents to die, it's selfish greed that allows your children to live in that situation.
So is greed bad ? yes and no, it can be either.
In the situation I described, there is no good outcome, only a better option. If you stayed with the parents, you all die.
Each of these has it's place and it is not that they should be cherished, but neither is it realistic to remove them from us.
Ok, so then I don't need to believe in him at all then. Problem solved.
So why don't you just stop eating, what's the point. It's called instinct. We do what we need to survive and sometimes that is not pretty.
Survival is everything. It's not just about you and me, it's about all of us, the future generations and beyond. Yes, individually we are all going to die, but I for one want to live as long as possible, see my kids grow etc.
That's a belief, not a fact.
To be forgiven one must say they are sorry to God and mean it. If they continue to sin they did not mean it so they were never forgiven. If they meant it but made a mistake they will suffer the consequences. If they never meant it they are not of any interest to God and he will not bother with them and leave them in their satanic realm of emptyness.
it is the same if a brother does not apologize to you if he wrongs you then you do not have to forgive him. He must apologize. It is that simple. Don't forgive someone if they don't apologize - that just nullifies the effect of forgiveness
it is the same if a brother does not apologize to you if he wrongs you then you do not have to forgive him. He must apologize. It is that simple. Don't forgive someone if they don't apologize - that just nullifies the effect of forgiveness
Where does it say that, didn't he die for our sins. So wasn't that death mean't to represent all of what we do, because we do not know what we do ?