If Jesus died for our sins

[786]

Ah but as a catholic if you confess your sins your are again cleansed from sin so yes it is a free pass as long as ater you kill the person you go tell god about it and say sorry all is good.

Good point... Catholicism has made up some great bs.... If we understand that the part where this 'authority' was given to be a later addition- which has been argued- then this would not exist... And then it would be like I said.. But I agree with what you just said.

Peace be unto you

 

[jpappl]

Good point... Catholicism has made up some great bs.... If we understand that the part where this 'authority' was given to be a later addition- which has been argued- then this would not exist... And then it would be like I said.. But I agree with what you just said.

Peace be unto you

Isn't the pope Catholic ?

Don't let the Catholics see this thread.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

Isn't the pope Catholic ?

Don't let the Catholics see this thread.

Yes the pope is Catholic and he has the Biggest Hat too. as Denis Leary once said "God must have a huge Fucking Sombrero".

 

[786]

I mean, does it make sense for an omnipotent being to be so concerned with someone believing in him as opposed to leading a good and decent life.

Yes, it makes sense because thats his choice? But secondly God did create Laws, which I think are still applicable, that are for a 'better life' not simply about 'belief in God'- so I think you're missing the point.

What I get from this, is that you could be an ass all your life, get re-born when you find out you have terminal cancer and get into heaven.

Yes, ask GeoffP to explain it because I don't get it either... I'm not a Christian

So why would I or any decent person want to live with all of the pedophiles, murderers and general slime of society just because they repented at the last minute.

Well you also have the same opportunity, no? But anyways again have some Christian explain this to you because according to me the Law is still applicable.. And that for God to be just, he will only forgive sins against Himself and then have a trial about sins against the other humans and they get to decide if they want to forgive them or not.

Peace be unto you

 

[786]

Isn't the pope Catholic ?

Don't let the Catholics see this thread.

I don't know if you know this but there has been increasing "Catholic Reformation" the idea about the Pope being God's Representative is slowly being thrown out as are many other things. A friend of mine who works in the Catholic Church was telling me a little about these changes and the 'demoting' of the Pope is one of them... I don't remember the exact details though because my memory isn't too good.

Peace be unto you

 

[Grim_Reaper]

Good point... Catholicism has made up some great bs.... If we understand that the part where this 'authority' was given to be a later addition- which has been argued- then this would not exist... And then it would be like I said.. But I agree with what you just said.

Peace be unto you

Actually the Vatican had a huge role in the production of the Bible and all Christian religious texts. It was King Henry I believe that broke the mold when he wanted to devoice his wife to marry Ann Bolin I think. That is when the Catholic Protestant fire started as well as other splinter religions started to appear around the same time. Muslims have all ways been Muslims and Jews Jews.

 

[jpappl]

“ Originally Posted by jpappl
I mean, does it make sense for an omnipotent being to be so concerned with someone believing in him as opposed to leading a good and decent life. ”

Yes, it makes sense because thats his choice? But secondly God did create Laws, which I think are still applicable, that are for a 'better life' not simply about 'belief in God'- so I think you're missing the point.

Well it appears the laws were changed, no ?

Because otherwise the list for those who could make it to heaven would be extremely short because everyone sins.

I understand the point of "better life", but it appears the religion has allowed the "belief in God" to be more important.

 

[jpappl]

I don't know if you know this but there has been increasing "Catholic Reformation" the idea about the Pope being God's Representative is slowly being thrown out as are many other things. A friend of mine who works in the Catholic Church was telling me a little about these changes and the 'demoting' of the Pope is one of them... I don't remember the exact details though because my memory isn't too good.

Peace be unto you

I know some personally who have a real hard time with their stance on birth control. They frankly think it's f8cking crazy.

 

[786]

Well it appears the laws were changed, no ?

Because otherwise the list for those who could make it to heaven would be extremely short because everyone sins.

I don't know what you're talking about... As long as God can Forgive, then many can go to heaven even with sinning.... The Christians make the 'wages of sin is death' as too literal because they need to fit their Jesus death scenerio in.. Jews never understood it this way..

I understand the point of "better life", but it appears the religion has allowed the "belief in God" to be more important.

Well 'belief in God' should lead to a better life because it is then when you follow those laws, correct? I understand what you are saying... Both are important things but it seems to me that getting on the good side of God is probably a much better idea in the long run- religions may have 'overdone' this expression. Although I think its the scholars who are responsible for this and not religion itself. I don't see this problem in Judaism or Islam as a religion itself- although many scholars spend a lot of time on 'belief in God' part and not so much about 'humanity'- which is clearly not what the religions are about if one tries to read it themselves and understand the histories as well.

Peace be unto you

 

[jpappl]

786,

“ Originally Posted by jpappl
Well it appears the laws were changed, no ?

Because otherwise the list for those who could make it to heaven would be extremely short because everyone sins. ”

I don't know what you're talking about... As long as God can Forgive, then many can go to heaven even with sinning.... The Christians make the 'wages of sin is death' as too literal because they need to fit their Jesus death scenerio in.. Jews never understood it this way..

Sounds like a contradiction doesn't it. They need to get their story straight.

“ I understand the point of "better life", but it appears the religion has allowed the "belief in God" to be more important. ”

Well 'belief in God' should lead to a better life because it is then when you follow those laws, correct?

But there is no requirement to lead a better life. Just believe in god.

So essentially anyone can apply by believing, no matter how they conduct themselves here on earth.

 

[786]

Sounds like a contradiction doesn't it. They need to get their story straight.

Actually it is not a contradiction.... Every sin you do leads you to hell (death).. it doesn't say that the sin can not be forgiven, and neither does it say that the 'good' you do is meaningless.. Every step towards hell is indeed a step towards hell and it will lead you to hell... you can take a step to the other direction too you know :shrug:

But there is no requirement to lead a better life. Just believe in god.

So essentially anyone can apply by believing, no matter how they conduct themselves here on earth.

Jews never understood it like that. that is why the christians need to do some explaining. You are wrong to say that 'belief' is sufficient at least not in Judaism- that is why the christians need to explain why don't the Jews understand the OT like the Christians do and how can they explain what your question is getting at.

Peace be unto you

 

[mike47]

If Jesus died for our sins, shouldn't we take full advantage of that and sin all the damn time.

I mean wouldn't it be a shame, no a travesty to have him die for our sins and not be expert sinners.

That show you how CRAZY and meaningless is Christianity !!!.

 

[jpappl]

“ But there is no requirement to lead a better life. Just believe in god.

So essentially anyone can apply by believing, no matter how they conduct themselves here on earth. ”

Jews never understood it like that. that is why the christians need to do some explaining. You are wrong to say that 'belief' is sufficient at least not in Judaism- that is why the christians need to explain why don't the Jews understand the OT like the Christians do and how can they explain what your question is getting at.

Yes they do have some explaining to do.

So for muslims and jews. If you live your life as a sinner, is there anyway to get back in the good graciousness of god ?

 

[mike47]

I know some personally who have a real hard time with their stance on birth control. They frankly think it's f8cking crazy.

The Pope and his army of followers do not believe in birth control .
The Pope, the Archbishops, the nuns, the priests and other ranking church staff do not have families and they dictate how families should live .
Another CRAZINESS coming from the blessing of Christianity .

 

[spidergoat]

How is that crazy? You don't have to be a member.

 

[GeoffP]

Good point... Catholicism has made up some great bs....

So have a couple other religions I can think of.

Yes, ask GeoffP to explain it because I don't get it either... I'm not a Christian

Well, I don't believe it works that way either, but then again sins were meant to be forgiven.

That show you how CRAZY and meaningless is Christianity !!!.

So don't believe in it. Your religion is actually worse.

 

[786]

So have a couple other religions I can think of.

I was referring to how Catholics made up things which had nothing to do with their Holy Scripture at all... For example the concept of 'indulgences' that used to exist- that was basically a money making concept. Thank God it is rejected now. But that is an example of what I was talking about... Other religions seem to be more grounded in their scriptures at least- interpretation may vary but still based on some scripture... Do you have any evidence of 'indulgences'- in essence buy your way to heaven?

Well, I don't believe it works that way either, but then again sins were meant to be forgiven.

So whats the point of crucifying an innocent person? :shrug:

Peace be unto you

 

[GeoffP]

I was referring to how Catholics made up things which had nothing to do with their Holy Scripture at all... For example the concept of 'indulgences' that used to exist- that was basically a money making concept.

Exactly - and it wasn't really "Catholic" as such, but a scam. It happens.

So whats the point of crucifying an innocent person? :shrug:

Peace be unto you

What's the point of any of it? Do you think God conforms to our expectations, or is it we that are meant to conform to His?

 

[786]

Exactly - and it wasn't really "Catholic" as such, but a scam. It happens.

Well it was OFFICIAL Catholic 'doctrine' so... it wasn't a scam perpetuated by a select few but it was a valid and accepted by the Churches. There is a difference of course.

What's the point of any of it? Do you think God conforms to our expectations, or is it we that are meant to conform to His?

Actually my question was if the sins were meant to be forgiven anyway, what was the point of Jesus death on the cross? What is it that he accomplished?

Peace be unto you

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

If Jesus died for our sins, shouldn't we take full advantage of that and sin all the damn time.

I haven't committed a sin in my life. I exhibit natural human behavior. Sin is a religious construct, means nothing to me. I've lied, coveted my neighbor's wife, etc.

Religion keeps telling me I'm a sinner by default, even at birth. What the hell is that all about? I don't appreciate being labeled as someone bad before I find my mother's tit for the first time. How sick do you have to be to make a sinner out of a baby?

Does God have some sort of accounting system. Every time someone sins, God is owed something? Sinning is like a recession. We build up this tremendous debt and God in His inimitable style decides that 'hey, in order to keep me from collecting by killing all of you I can bail you out by having you kill my son instead.' He knows full well that he doesn't have to kill us since we all die anyway and He will collect no matter what. So in essence God only wanted a security deposit, a penalty for non payment. So we kill His son who isn't dead? What the fuck?