How Peaceful Is Christianity?

[Adstar]

I think that's a very fine line you are drawing there. As you well know we have all done enough to be equally condemned and are only saved by God's grace.

Sometimes fine lines need to be drawn. And i do know that we have all done enough to be condemned and that we are only saved by the atoning act of the Messiah Jesus. I deserve to be cast into the lake of fire just like the next person does.

I still do not agree with 'hellfire preaching'. It annoys me and if it does that to a believer, it's not going to convince someone who does not! There are so many positive reasons for coming to God that you do not need to use (what at least look like) threats to non-believers and certainly there is no point in 'warning' them of something of which they are aware but in which they have absolutely no belief.

I often use the Love of The truth to attract people to accepting Jesus, But many people look upon what Jesus preached and did as foolishness. God as given us more than one tool to use in our witness. And i will use every tool at my disposal to reach out to others too convict them. Sometimes the fear of God can motivate one who has mocked the love of God to re-evaluate the situation and come to know the seriousness of the situation. I agree for most being told that there is a Lake of Fire and that all whom reject Jesus will spend eternity there in torment has no effect. But for some it does.

Jude 1
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

Have you really found someone who has come to belief in recent time to avoid 'hell'? I have to say I know of no one in that category amongst the many new christians I have known over many years.

It has not saved but it focuses the mind and gets some people to think about these things will greater seriousness.

Love and kindness was always Jesus' approach.

Absolutely. Part of love is what is commonly called Hard Love. Sometimes love is not all sweetness and bubbles sometimes it can be very disturbing.

We may just have to agree to differ on this one.

So be it. Let us all have a clear conscience toward God in what we do in His name. And may we leave no stone unturned in your efforts to give the Gospel.


All Praise The Ancient Of God

 

[Adstar]

And just what evil works have I done that you are aware of ? *lol*

Perhaps you have some clairvoyant abilities !

lol. God can see every act you have ever done and He knows every thought you have ever thought. And God has given me the certain knowledge that no human being has ever lived a life without sin. So don't even try to put forward the ridiculous proposition that you are without fault. You only make yourself a liar and confirm your sin in your attempt to justify yourself.

I expect to be judged by yes, my good works. The law of karma is in effect and not by a fictional character like Yahweh who acts more like a spoiled brat who seems constantly frustrated over the blunders of his inability to create with perfection.

So, you see I am not insulting God..I would never do that,but insulting a harsh,fictional ,man made bully is not a problem!

The law of karma is a delusion. The Law of God reigns in eternity, not karma. You have indeed levelled a false allegation against The God of Abraham and it will not go unanswered.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[nova900]

The law of karma is a delusion. The Law of God reigns in eternity, not karma. You have indeed levelled a false allegation against The God of Abraham and it will not go unanswered.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

No Adstar, what is a delusion is your belief in claiming that the man invented god called Yahweh is God.
Unless you and other fundamentalist christians can provide conclusive proof of this then you will continue to meet with resistance to your fire and brimstone indoctrination tactics. Can you provide proof? , and I don't mean copying and pasting text from the bible. No , you can't ..no more than I can provide conclusive proof that what I believe to be God is completelely accurate.

God as with each person can only be found on an intuitional level. Not in text books or people frothing at the mouth and speaking tongues or evangelists screaming the scriptures they preach are un-refutable.

I do not claim by the way to be sin free.. I am not., but I am endeavouring to be a better person..it's all about selfless service, bringing joy and help to someone else's life, doing good acts that yes do have a positive impact on the souls vibration.


I'll be the first to say that many of Christs teachings are noble and of great value in life... but I tend more towards the Gnostic teachings of Christ as they are more in line with my own beliefs, but this message of course has been changed over the yrs to suit Man's own desire to use religion to control people.

So, no I will not be judged by your fictional vision of God. If you wish to embrace a vision of God that has such a dark and cruel side, so be it. That's your choice.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

No He rightfully executed them. God has never murdered anyone. And all who reject the Love of The Truth will be rightfully condemned to the second death.

And He will be justified in every case that He does thrown into the lake of fire.

And that is my desire for you and my family and all my fellow men. Looks like we agree on something.

You will be required to answer to God for this allegation one day. I have explained the truth to you. But you persist in your false allegation. That is your free will decision. God will judge everyone for all the Words that they have said. There is only one way to be forgiven and that is to accept The loving gift of the Messiah Jesus. I hope that you do before you die. Remember you can die at any time.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Thank you very much for your kind concern and your efforts towards me, Adstar! Thank you to Gordon as well!

However, it was precisely my desire for the “Love of the Truth” that caused me to take a hard look at the Christian faith and finally brought me to a place where I had to painfully admit how false some of it really was. I desperately wanted Christianity to be true, all of it! This was no easy decision for me at all. It involved much pain and heartache. It was the hardest road imaginable for me to travel or even contemplate thinking about. I had to follow my own head, heart, logic, and morality. I have always and still do ask God for wisdom! You are, in reality, only doing the same things, aren’t you?

You have indeed explained to me your very own personal version of “The Truth”. However, every Christian on this planet disagrees with every other Christian on this planet about something. They argue even about the very heart of the gospel itself. You and Gordon disagree on things. In the Christian faith, there is not even a consensus on the basis upon which a person is saved! There is only consensus in small little club like groups called churches, where absolute conformity is very often expected. Go down the street to another tiny church group and you will likely find a completely different view of salvation. My personal version of “The Truth” is simply different than yours. I am trying to figure things out! Shall I be condemned by God simply because I disagree with your version and your interpretation of words?

O.K. Now you can tell me again, how you have a perfect understanding of the mind of God and judge me again as if you were actually God Himself.

Best Wishes!

 

[Adstar]

No Adstar, what is a delusion is your belief in claiming that the man invented god called Yahweh is God.
Unless you and other fundamentalist christians can provide conclusive proof of this then you will continue to meet with resistance to your fire and brimstone indoctrination tactics. Can you provide proof? , and I don't mean copying and pasting text from the bible. No , you can't ..no more than I can provide conclusive proof that what I believe to be God is completelely accurate.

Proof? Who said i am called upon to give proof? If i could give proof then faith would no longer be needed. Part of following God is trusting Him on the things we do not understand. God has deemed it right to use the Love of the truth ( The life and message of Jesus ) as an attracting force for all who Love Love. So what if we meet resistance and others reject the offer of forgiveness that Jesus secured? My eternal salvation is assured no matter if everyone whom i witness to resists and rejects the Love of The Truth.

So no. No proof will be given to you. Accept what you will to accept and reject what you will to reject and be judged by God in eternity for what you chose.

Matthew 12
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

If Jesus is not enough for you then you are not enough for God.

I do not claim by the way to be sin free.. I am not., but I am endeavouring to be a better person..it's all about selfless service, bringing joy and help to someone else's life, doing good acts that yes do have a positive impact on the souls vibration.

You will never achieve perfection. And because of that you will never be allowed to exist with Perfection into eternity. Only by accepting Jesus can your imperfection be atoned for and covered. All other ways lead to destruction. Believe it or not.

I'll be the first to say that many of Christs teachings are noble and of great value in life... but I tend more towards the Gnostic teachings of Christ as they are more in line with my own beliefs, but this message of course has been changed over the yrs to suit Man's own desire to use religion to control people.

You have only accepted a belief system that suits your own desires. "gnostic"

Like all the proud, you seek a god to conform with what you think is right.

So, no I will not be judged by your fictional vision of God. If you wish to embrace a vision of God that has such a dark and cruel side, so be it. That's your choice.

Yes you will be judged by the God of Abraham. I accept God as He is. I embrace His love for me and His loving act that saves me Men can go and be carried away by their own vanity if they like, It's sad but, in the end i know that the Way of Jesus will be embraced by all those who have love.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Thank you very much for your kind concern and your efforts towards me, Adstar! Thank you to Gordon as well!

However, it was precisely my desire for the “Love of the Truth” that caused me to take a hard look at the Christian faith and finally brought me to a place where I had to painfully admit how false some of it really was. I desperately wanted Christianity to be true, all of it! This was no easy decision for me at all. It involved much pain and heartache. It was the hardest road imaginable for me to travel or even contemplate thinking about. I had to follow my own head, heart, logic, and morality. I have always and still do ask God for wisdom! You are, in reality, only doing the same things, aren’t you?

Yes and you trusted in your own head, your own heart, your own logic and your own morality maybe you think that all these facilities at your disposal are perfect? You must because you are entrusting your eternal destination on them. What a fearful thing to do, trusting in yourself. The only god you ask for wisdom is the god that passes the test of your own head, heart, logic and morality. Don't think you will ever get any guidance for a god that does not exist.

You have indeed explained to me your very own personal version of “The Truth”. However, every Christian on this planet disagrees with every other Christian on this planet about something. They argue even about the very heart of the gospel itself. You and Gordon disagree on things. In the Christian faith, there is not even a consensus on the basis upon which a person is saved! There is only consensus in small little club like groups called churches, where absolute conformity is very often expected. Go down the street to another tiny church group and you will likely find a completely different view of salvation. My personal version of “The Truth” is simply different than yours. I am trying to figure things out! Shall I be condemned by God simply because I disagree with your version and your interpretation of words?

You will be condemed for rejecting the truth. I am a man so you can agree with the thoughts i have or you can agree with them. Its up to you. But God is the final Word and if our wills do not end up alighing with His will then we will both be doomed, and rightly so.

O.K. Now you can tell me again, how you have a perfect understanding of the mind of God and judge me again as if you were actually God Himself.

Best Wishes!

I do not have perfect understanding of God. Thats why i need Faith. If i had perfect understanding of God then no Faith would be requiored.

Of cource you no longer need Faith do you? Your "god" conforms to your head, your heart, your logic and your morality.


Best wishes to you also.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SetiAlpha6]

... Like all the proud, you seek a god to conform with what you think is right.

Yes you will be judged by the God of Abraham. I accept God as He is. I embrace His love for me and His loving act that saves me Men can go and be carried away by their own vanity if they like, It's sad but, in the end i know that the Way of Jesus will be embraced by all those who have love.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

This "Way of Jesus" you speak of will indeed be embraced by all those who love themselves, and seek to glorify themselves, and wish to damn to hell everyone else who disagrees with them. This is the kind of person that this system of belief creates.

I would be so bold as to suggest that Nova900 only gave up that which was against Love. And you are condemning him for doing this?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Yes and you trusted in your own head, your own heart, your own logic and your own morality maybe you think that all these facilities at your disposal are perfect?

No, I certainly do not. That is exactly why I have always asked God for guidance and wisdom.

You will be condemed for rejecting the truth.

Then Christianity is definitely not peaceful by your own words.

Take Care!

 

[Adstar]

This "Way of Jesus" you speak of will indeed be embraced by all those who love themselves, and seek to glorify themselves, and wish to damn to hell everyone else who disagrees with them. This is the kind of person that this system of belief creates.

I would be so bold as to suggest that Nova900 only gave up that which was against Love. And you are condemning him for doing this?

You can suggest what you will, In the end the truth reigns over suggestions.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Originally Posted by Adstar
You will be condemed for rejecting the truth

Then Christianity is definitely not peaceful by your own words.

Take Care!

False twister of my words. Your lies will not overthrow Gods ultimate Authority. Bear false witness all you want.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SetiAlpha6]

You can suggest what you will, In the end the truth reigns over suggestions.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I Agree!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

False twister of my words.

That was not my intent! Will you forgive me?

Your lies will not overthrow Gods ultimate Authority. Bear false witness all you want.

I agree with you completely! Nothing I ever say or think will ever overthrow God's ultimate authority! And I have no desire to do so.

Peace!

 

[Adstar]

That was not my intent! Will you forgive me?

Yes i forgive you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[inuyaSHA0004]

Followers of Jesus are without doubt the most peaceful people in the world.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

first of all, my father is christan. this religion gives no way off letting out anger. he has drinking problems, and stays out most nights because of it, i'm not saying that this is all the fault of the religion, but if you think about it, most christains have drinking problems. I converted to wicca, because you can freely do what you want, within the limits of the religion, it doesn't constrain anger. "Jesus" said to "love your enemies" this gives no way to release anger, and it thus explodes on the people who have done nothing wrong.

 

[Adstar]

Strange. I have been a Christian for 20 years and i probably drink two alcoholic drinks a year. Something is wrong with your attempt at stereo typing Christians. The last time i lost my temper and engaged in a fistfight was about 20 years ago also. With the help of the Holy Spirit we who have an eternal perspective can put the agro of this world into proper perspective. Of course we can get emotional but we can and do hand it all over to Jesus. Jesus is our vent.


Seems to me your Dad had an addictive personality. That is common right across society. But i understand why you would use your Dad's failings to justify your rebellion against God. Seems to me your saw your Dad as the God he believed in? Many children make that mistake. I have seen a few children who where born into abusive situations who's parents happened to be religious. They could not discern between their parents fault and the Faith they believed in. On the reverse side i have seen many victims of abuse (woman in particular) come to embrace Jesus as Messiah. So the flow runs both ways.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SnakeLord]

Sorry Adstar but you asked for it..

You will be condemed for rejecting the truth. ”

Then Christianity is definitely not peaceful by your own words.

Obviously not needless to say, the guy did not twist anything. Anyway, I hate to interrupt so I'll just let it be and ask that next time you're around tell me a little bit more about this eternal lake of fire.

Anyway, sorry.. what were you saying about "peaceful"?

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Sadly you do not really understand the joy that comes from being a christian. I presume you have not seen (as I have) people released from depression, drug addiction, illness and all manner of problems.

Talk about the quintessential selfishness of Abrahamism. Yes I'm sure we've all seen a few people whose Christianity brought them joy or who have actually made it through the 12-step AA program and stayed sober for more than a year or two. On the other hand we have seen two entire civilizations razed to the ground by Christians in the name of Jesus and all of the other atrocities I detailed earlier. You can't possibly believe that the happiness of a few one-percenters who manage to model themselves after Jesus is sufficient to indemnify the belief system against its massive evil. That's basically the equivalent of saying it's okay to kill hundreds of thousands of people and make tens of millions more miserable in order to make a handful of people in every generation happy. The logic of the terrorist, as we would characterize it today.

Christians are not wimps who give up when it gets difficult, they persevere against adversity. Read Nelson Mandela's 'Long Road to Freedom' to see how faith can keep you going under what appear to be hopeless circumstances. Do your remarks really fit well with such people as Martin Luther King, to quote but one!

Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King were not wimps. But my point is that the average Christian does indeed crumble in the face of adversity and I have almost 2,000 years of history to prove that assertion. Of course they don't believe they are crumbling because they're doing what their Christian leaders tell them is the work of their god, and on top of that they validate themselves by making sure they're in synch with their neighbors, who are also under the same influence. Yet when all is said and done they have wrought unspeakable evil on the world in the name of Jesus.

And don't get in my face with MLK. Christianity latched onto the civil rights movement when it was practically completed, and then took credit for it. Where were America's white Christian leaders during the previous three hundred years? They were in churches nodding their heads in vigorous agreement while their preachers told them that negroes were inferior, that while it was worthwhile to bring them the word of their god they would never be capable of self governance and would always require being treated like children or even livestock for their own good, and more importantly for the good of the white Christians. There were a few small Christian sects bucking the trend, like the Quakers, but the net impact of Christianity on the world's black people has been shame. Don't try to co-opt the accomplishments of the extremely secular 20th Century American Left in the arena of civil rights. We're all well educated people here and we know our own history. I was there watching when you people jumped in at the end of the parade and held onto history's coattails.

I presume from this that you believe that your country (whichever it is) should never fight and should merely allow any invader to walk in and do what he wills. I believe that the non action of all the other powers in regard to the totally unjustifiable invasion of Tibet by China is something of which we should all be ashamed.

Yes indeed. All those good Christian people in Latin America, Ireland, Scotland, Eastern Europe and the other strongholds of Jesus. Did I miss something? I didn't hear them screaming at the more secular nations to take action.

 

[inuyaSHA0004]

Strange. I have been a Christian for 20 years and i probably drink two alcoholic drinks a year. Something is wrong with your attempt at stereo typing Christians. The last time i lost my temper and engaged in a fistfight was about 20 years ago also. With the help of the Holy Spirit we who have an eternal perspective can put the agro of this world into proper perspective. Of course we can get emotional but we can and do hand it all over to Jesus. Jesus is our vent.


Seems to me your Dad had an addictive personality. That is common right across society. But i understand why you would use your Dad's failings to justify your rebellion against God. Seems to me your saw your Dad as the God he believed in? Many children make that mistake. I have seen a few children who where born into abusive situations who's parents happened to be religious. They could not discern between their parents fault and the Faith they believed in. On the reverse side i have seen many victims of abuse (woman in particular) come to embrace Jesus as Messiah. So the flow runs both ways.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

adstar, as i said in my previous post, this is not the fault of all cristains, more then half are at fault for this though. I do not rebel against god, because i don't believe he exists, how can you rebel against something you don't believe in. I have many reasons to not believe, and I have more then enough proof to prove he does not, taken from the bible. Yes, the bible condemned the religion over stupidity. as for other religions, i'm working on finding flaws, not because i want to put other religions down, but because i want to find the one religion with no flaws, and that will be my religion, my own religion has many flaws, but it does not contridict itself as the cristain religion does.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Strange. I have been a Christian for 20 years and i probably drink two alcoholic drinks a year. Something is wrong with your attempt at stereo typing Christians. The last time i lost my temper and engaged in a fistfight was about 20 years ago also. With the help of the Holy Spirit we who have an eternal perspective can put the agro of this world into proper perspective. Of course we can get emotional but we can and do hand it all over to Jesus. Jesus is our vent.

And my point, which you're still ducking, is that the past few decades have been easy on American Christians and indeed Christians throughout the industrial West because times have been good and they have not been challenged. As I said before, good times are no test of a religion's ability to inspire its adherents to be decent people.

I'm looking at the preceding couple of centuries of American history and observing that the Christians of that era were positively evil people. Relocation camps, anti-miscegenation laws, segregation, meddling in the affairs of other nations (whoops I guess that sin is still a popular one), Jim Crow, slavery, destruction of Indian culture and near-genocidal violence against them. Oh yeah, and that little thing called the American Civil War that was fought by overwhelmingly Christian troops and supported by overwhelmingly Christian voters--it killed off three percent of the U.S. population, one of the bloodiest wars in the history of humanity fought among a single people.

I can hardly wait for life to become difficult for America again and see what all these nice Christian people do this time. It will make us nostalgic for the days when all they were guilty of was alcoholism and child abuse. They're already agitating for a holy war against the Islamic Middle East. They are conspicuously silent about the slaughter in Africa because no matter which side loses it will just be a big pile of dead Muslims.

 

[Adstar]

And my point, which you're still ducking, is that the past few decades have been easy on American Christians and indeed Christians throughout the industrial West because times have been good and they have not been challenged. As I said before, good times are no test of a religion's ability to inspire its adherents to be decent people.

Firstly you never made this point to me. You may be getting me and Gordon mixed up here. Secondly i am not an american. Thirdly it does not matter what life brings to a Christian, Christians are loving no matter if they eat with a wodden spoon or a golden spoon.

I'm looking at the preceding couple of centuries of American history and observing that the Christians of that era were positively evil people.

Correction: False Christians.

Relocation camps, anti-miscegenation laws, segregation, meddling in the affairs of other nations (whoops I guess that sin is still a popular one), Jim Crow, slavery, destruction of Indian culture and near-genocidal violence against them. Oh yeah, and that little thing called the American Civil War that was fought by overwhelmingly Christian troops and supported by overwhelmingly Christian voters--it killed off three percent of the U.S. population, one of the bloodiest wars in the history of humanity fought among a single people.

Correction: False Christians.

I can hardly wait for life to become difficult for America again and see what all these nice Christian people do this time.

You wish poverty on people? That reveals something about you.

It will make us nostalgic for the days when all they were guilty of was alcoholism and child abuse. They're already agitating for a holy war against the Islamic Middle East. They are conspicuously silent about the slaughter in Africa because no matter which side loses it will just be a big pile of dead Muslims.

Your post only reveals just what a narrow minded, hate filled bigot you are.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days