One must have some reason for making this leap of faith, otherwise one is apt to believe just about anything they can conjure from their imagination. You are correct though, one MUST believe, however it is the "MUST" in which the rational mind has a problem.
How Peaceful Is Christianity?
- Thread starter Markx
- Start date
One must have some reason for making this leap of faith, otherwise one is apt to believe just about anything they can conjure from their imagination. You are correct though, one MUST believe, however it is the "MUST" in which the rational mind has a problem.
But you don't have to believe in fire for it to burn you. You don't have to believe CPR works to be alive because of it. You don't have to believe that a man has a part in making a baby, it doesn't make it any less true. How can you say that about religion?
I am trying to figure out what relation your points have to my post? It seems we have a total communication break down. Could you explain to me how your points relate to mine?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
We unfortunately have what appear to be examples of Human Blood Sacrifice in the Bible. There are contradictory scriptures to this practice, however. But which verses are correct then in this case? If we use another verse to explain away these verses we have a clear contradiction. We do not have an explanation. We only have what we wish were true.
Exodus 22:29
29 “You shall not delay to offer the first of your ripe produce and your juices. The firstborn of your sons you shall give to Me"
Numbers 31:25-40
25 Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: 26 “Count up the plunder that was taken—of man and beast—you and Eleazar the priest and the chief fathers of the congregation; 27 and divide the plunder into two parts, between those who took part in the war, who went out to battle, and all the congregation. 28 And levy a tribute for the LORD on the men of war who went out to battle: one of every five hundred of the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep; 29 take it from their half, and give it to Eleazar the priest as a heave offering to the LORD. 30 And from the children of Israel’s half you shall take one of every fifty, drawn from the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep, from all the livestock, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.” 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
32 The booty remaining from the plunder, which the men of war had taken, was six hundred and seventy-five thousand sheep, 33 seventy-two thousand cattle, 34 sixty-one thousand donkeys, 35 and thirty-two thousand persons in all, of women who had not known a man intimately. 36 And the half, the portion for those who had gone out to war, was in number three hundred and thirty-seven thousand five hundred sheep; 37 and the LORD’s tribute of the sheep was six hundred and seventy-five. 38 The cattle were thirty-six thousand, of which the LORD’s tribute was seventy-two. 39 The donkeys were thirty thousand five hundred, of which the LORD’s tribute was sixty-one. 40 The persons were sixteen thousand, of which the LORD’s tribute was thirty-two persons.
Peace!
Exodus 22:29
29 “You shall not delay to offer the first of your ripe produce and your juices. The firstborn of your sons you shall give to Me"
Numbers 31:25-40
25 Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: 26 “Count up the plunder that was taken—of man and beast—you and Eleazar the priest and the chief fathers of the congregation; 27 and divide the plunder into two parts, between those who took part in the war, who went out to battle, and all the congregation. 28 And levy a tribute for the LORD on the men of war who went out to battle: one of every five hundred of the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep; 29 take it from their half, and give it to Eleazar the priest as a heave offering to the LORD. 30 And from the children of Israel’s half you shall take one of every fifty, drawn from the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep, from all the livestock, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.” 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
32 The booty remaining from the plunder, which the men of war had taken, was six hundred and seventy-five thousand sheep, 33 seventy-two thousand cattle, 34 sixty-one thousand donkeys, 35 and thirty-two thousand persons in all, of women who had not known a man intimately. 36 And the half, the portion for those who had gone out to war, was in number three hundred and thirty-seven thousand five hundred sheep; 37 and the LORD’s tribute of the sheep was six hundred and seventy-five. 38 The cattle were thirty-six thousand, of which the LORD’s tribute was seventy-two. 39 The donkeys were thirty thousand five hundred, of which the LORD’s tribute was sixty-one. 40 The persons were sixteen thousand, of which the LORD’s tribute was thirty-two persons.
Peace!
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Here are more examples of "God Approved" Human Sacrifice!
Leviticus 27: 28-29
28 ‘Nevertheless no devoted offering that a man may devote to the LORD of all that he has, both man and beast, or the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted offering is most holy to the LORD. 29 No person under the ban, who may become doomed to destruction among men, shall be redeemed, but shall surely be put to death.
And...
2 Samuel 21:1-14
1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, “It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites.” 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah.3 Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, “What shall I do for you? And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?” 4 And the Gibeonites said to him, “We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us.” So he said, “Whatever you say, I will do for you.” 5 Then they answered the king, “As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, 6 let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose.” And the king said, “I will give them.” 7 But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD’s oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. 8 So the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul, and the five sons of Michal[a] the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite; 9 and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. 10 Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. And she did not allow the birds of the air to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. 11 And David was told what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. 12 Then David went and took the bones of Saul, and the bones of Jonathan his son, from the men of Jabesh Gilead who had stolen them from the street of Beth Shan, where the Philistines had hung them up, after the Philistines had struck down Saul in Gilboa. 13 So he brought up the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from there; and they gathered the bones of those who had been hanged. 14 They buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son in the country of Benjamin in Zelah, in the tomb of Kish his father. So they performed all that the king commanded. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land.
This is called the "Word of God" ladies and gentlemen. Seems like there is something immoral about this practice to me, but then who am I to question God?
Leviticus 27: 28-29
28 ‘Nevertheless no devoted offering that a man may devote to the LORD of all that he has, both man and beast, or the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted offering is most holy to the LORD. 29 No person under the ban, who may become doomed to destruction among men, shall be redeemed, but shall surely be put to death.
And...
2 Samuel 21:1-14
1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, “It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites.” 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah.3 Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, “What shall I do for you? And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?” 4 And the Gibeonites said to him, “We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us.” So he said, “Whatever you say, I will do for you.” 5 Then they answered the king, “As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, 6 let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose.” And the king said, “I will give them.” 7 But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD’s oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. 8 So the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul, and the five sons of Michal[a] the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite; 9 and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. 10 Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. And she did not allow the birds of the air to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. 11 And David was told what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. 12 Then David went and took the bones of Saul, and the bones of Jonathan his son, from the men of Jabesh Gilead who had stolen them from the street of Beth Shan, where the Philistines had hung them up, after the Philistines had struck down Saul in Gilboa. 13 So he brought up the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from there; and they gathered the bones of those who had been hanged. 14 They buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son in the country of Benjamin in Zelah, in the tomb of Kish his father. So they performed all that the king commanded. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land.
This is called the "Word of God" ladies and gentlemen. Seems like there is something immoral about this practice to me, but then who am I to question God?
ambehrendt
Registered Member
by this standard there is no question, or rather no room for discussion. I think the intended question should have been 'how peaceful are christians?'
-Historically the answer is 'not very.'
The argument that those that are not peaceful are obviously not christian - while perhaps true - is not practical. As recognized on the early the pope is the head christian (for catholics anyhow)... and yet historically it's been the pope that has been in charge of the crusades and other activities which have resulted in the death of millions.
A similar argument could be the description of 10 teachers, 9 poor and one good. If you told the good one that most teachers are poor - he could argue that those teachers that are not good are not teachers; in practice however they are still teachers reguardless of what the 'better' of the group have to say.
ambehrendt
Registered Member
I thought all people were gods children
All people have the potential to accept God as their Father. But only people willing to be adopted by God become His children.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
There is room for discussion if one puts a descriptive word in front of these "Christians" the Word is false.
Why not?
I am glad you added "(for catholics anyhow)... " Because i am not a catholic i am a Christian. Catholics are not Christians. Why? Because they do not and have a long History of not follow the teachings of Jesus. Your historical pointers to the Crusades and other activities proves my point.
Ahhh but a better example would be a department of Education setting minimum standards that a person would have to achieve before they could legally call themselves Teachers. If only 1 out of the 10 can satisfy the standard only 1 out of the 10 is a Teacher no matter how loud or often the other 9 declare themselves to be Teachers.
Jesus sets the standards and it does not matter if the ratio of false Christians to true Christians is 1,000,000 to 1. Christianity is not a democracy and Christianity does not change because most people who call themselves Christians follow a different way than that laid down by Jesus.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days