How jesus is the son of God

I quoted these sources:

Atheism is also defined in these sources:

o Merriam Webster's
o Oxford English
o American Heritage

Oh wait.. The bible says unicorns, dragons, giants, and four headed creatures are real.

Human beings that have a personailty and volition as defined in the dictionary, can you cope with that idea? Probably not.

Atheists are walking dead people. They don't have a personality, a persona, volition, a will, nothing no absolutely nothing do they have in the realm of the living. What a bore!

Maybe you all are right -- atheists don't exist as humans.
 
woody I've rebolded you Merriam Webster's dictionary quote, as you seem to misunderstand the interpretion for the word soul.
note I bolded quotes from the other dictionarys you specified.
woody said:
musta said,

“ please dont reply unless you intend answering my previous questions, thank you. ”


Without any common ground, I can not answer your questions. You do not believe man has a soul. The dictionary says man does have a soul. Here is a list of dictionary meanings on the word "soul":

1 : the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2 a : the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings,
3 : a person's total self
4 a : an active or essential part b : a moving spirit :
5 a : the moral and emotional nature of human beings b : the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment c : spiritual or moral force : FERVOR
6 : PERSON
7 : EXEMPLIFICATION, PERSONIFICATION
8 a : a strong positive feeling (as of intense sensitivity and emotional fervor) conveyed especially by black American performers

If you do not have a soul then you are not a living, moral, rational creature according to the dictionary definition of a soul. Take your argument to the writers of the english dictionary. When we have our terminology in order, then we can talk. I stick with the english dictionary as the authority on definitions. It says human beings have a soul by definition. Are athiests aliens? I don't think so. What meaning of the word "soul" do you not understand?


the oxford english:
soul


• noun 1 the spiritual element of a person, regarded as immortal. 2 a person’s moral or emotional nature. 3 emotional or intellectual energy or integrity. 4 a person regarded as the embodiment of a particular quality. 5 an individual, often of a specified type: poor soul. 6 (also soul music) a kind of music incorporating elements of gospel music and rhythm and blues, popularized by American blacks.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

1) soul.

...The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity. 2. The spiritual

wordsmyth dictionary:

the spiritual dimension of human beings, regarded by some religions as immortal, and viewed as distinct from the physical body.
spirit , psyche
the part of one's being that is regarded as surviving death.
spirit, ghost

as you can now see they all refer to the soul as a spiritual or immaterial thing, not one refers to the soul as a real thing. ok
does that make it clear.
 
Pavlos didn't have a soul. He woke up one day and said, "self" I think I'll define reality: it is what I see. Then someone showed Him a microscope and He said "Now I know germs exist" because I have seen them with my own eyes. His new discovery emboldened him. He proclaimed "self" I define reality as everything I sense with my own five senses, and everything I can rationally evaluate. Then Pavlos ceased to be but reality continued on or did it?

Without Pavlos's five senses to help us, how will we know the world continues after he dies. Pavlos, please don't die and leave us with this dilemmma. How will we know reality? Should we start a religion on the teachings of Pavlos the marvelous. All we like sheep going astray. But the mind it is the new God. It shall lead us forward with great wisdom. It didn't get us here but we can trust it to keep us here. Now we can go in peace and assurance.
 
Woody said:
I wanted you to help me complete the muslim part of the table. Is it correct? What needs to be changed? Do more questions need to be added to the table?

thanks

here is the table again:


What are the consequences of disobedience of the precepts of your religion (Islam)
a) Before death?
Problems on earth eg sickness poverty lonliness etc
 
Woody said:
Pavlos didn't have a soul. He woke up one day and said, "self" I think I'll define reality: it is what I see. Then someone showed Him a microscope and He said "Now I know germs exist" because I have seen them with my own eyes. His new discovery emboldened him. He proclaimed "self" I define reality as everything I sense with my own five senses, and everything I can rationally evaluate. Then Pavlos ceased to be but reality continued on or did it?

Without Pavlos's five senses to help us, how will we know the world continues after he dies. Pavlos, please don't die and leave us with this dilemmma. How will we know reality? Should we start a religion on the teachings of Pavlos the marvelous. All we like sheep going astray. But the mind it is the new God. It shall lead us forward with great wisdom. It didn't get us here but we can trust it to keep us here. Now we can go in peace and assurance.
sorry woody this just shows the childish rational of the xian.

all pavlos did was try to help you, as did I.
it seem to me you do, display sociopathic tendency's.
 
Audible,

I expected a humorous rebuttal about christianity. Where is the poet in you? Can't anyone have some fun?

I don't know why I target Pavlos like I do. Actually I admire him as an intelligent and decent person. I think it's the avatar that makes me do it. Maybe there is something about him that reminds me of me.

Pavlos, shame on me for acting like a child, but you humor me. I am not laughing at you, I am only laughing at humanity in general. I am the butt of my own joke.
 
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Woody said:
Audible,

I expected a humorous rebuttal about christianity. Where is the poet in you? Can't anyone have some fun?

I enjoyed your joke here :

You do not believe man has a soul. The dictionary says man does have a soul.
 
Itopal said,

I enjoyed your joke here :

“ You do not believe man has a soul. The dictionary says man does have a soul. ”

The english language is a joke:

drunks were called alchoholics and now they are called "chemically dependent"

queers were called homosexuals and now they are called "gay"

colored people were called blacks and now they are called "people of color"

cripples were called handicapped and now they are called "physically challenged"

Just saying these things will offend somebody.
 
Al,

concerning the table:

What are the consequences of disobedience of the precepts of your religion (Islam)
a) Before death?
Problems on earth eg sickness poverty lonliness etc

Does everything else look right in the islamic section of the table?

thanks
 
SL said,

“ You do not believe man has a soul. The dictionary says man does have a soul. ”

Fuck, that's so incredibly stupid it made me choke on my tea.

I'm glad I got your attention, but I'm sorry I disturbed your english tea party.

Rather than use the word "soul" as a human attribute, tell me the word that best summarizes the aspects of a man's soul excluding the spiritual aspects? Being a physchologist you should know a good word that summarizes a man's intellect, volition, personality, persona, moral qualities, emotions, and other qualities?

I looked up the word "atheist" in the dictionary, and it says an atheist is some one that does not believe in god or gods. You have expanded this to mean more. I researched atheism in the wilkepedia, and you are apparantly from the rationalist sect (but not quite):

History of Atheism

Rationalism

You should get a kick out of the pink unicorn argument (how can God have a color and be invisible at same time?):

Pink Unicorn

Now I ask you a question Snakelord, Could you please give me a rational explanation for this situation:

I know someone that is a necromancer (we will call him "Ken"). He consults with familiar spirits of dead people. This individual is a member of the US civil air patrol. He uses a ouija board as his "medium." He transcripts his discussions with these familiar spirits.

A pilot went down in a jungle somewhere, and nobody could locate the aircraft. The local authorities searched, people searched from aircraft, they tracked and retracked his flight path, and they did everything they could to locate the missing pilot, but nobody could find him. The family was desperate to locate the missing pilot. The missing and presumed dead pilot was a member of the civil air patrol and the word got out to Ken . Ken was not a part of the search parties.

Ken got out his ouija board and the flight pattern for the aircraft and he consulted with the spirit of the dead pilot. The pilot's spirit showed Ken the coordinates where the aircraft went down with one of those pointed things you use on a ouija board. The pilot was off the flight pattern when he crashed. Ken got the word out to the search party and they located the aircraft and the dead pilot.

Do you have a rational explanation for what happened? You'll probably say it was just luck, but Ken also transcripted his discussion with the pilot.
 
woody said:
I know someone that is a necromancer (we will call him "Ken"). He consults with familiar spirits of dead people. This individual is a member of the US civil air patrol. He uses a ouija board as his "medium." He transcripts his discussions with these familiar spirits.

A pilot went down in a jungle somewhere, and nobody could locate the aircraft. The local authorities searched, people searched from aircraft, they tracked and retracked his flight path, and they did everything they could to locate the missing pilot, but nobody could find him. The family was desperate to locate the missing pilot. The missing and presumed dead pilot was a member of the civil air patrol and the word got out to Ken . Ken was not a part of the search parties.

Ken got out his ouija board and the flight pattern for the aircraft and he consulted with the spirit of the dead pilot. The pilot's spirit showed Ken the coordinates where the aircraft went down with one of those pointed things you use on a ouija board. The pilot was off the flight pattern when he crashed. Ken got the word out to the search party and they located the aircraft and the dead pilot.

Do you have a rational explanation for what happened? You'll probably say it was just luck, but Ken also transcripted his discussion with the pilot.
can I ask is this ken a seemingly inteligent man, it matters not whether he has a transcript, we can all write a good story, on the other point of him finding someone, was it an instantaneous thing, or did it take some time for him to find the pilot. also if he was not part of the search party how did he get the flight pattern. I think it's great he helped find the body of the pilot, what prove have you that it was'nt by chance, of a good bit of detective work on the part of ken, other than this story he wrote.
something a little more substantial is needed, sorry.
 
I'm glad I got your attention, but I'm sorry I disturbed your english tea party.

Woody: If you want an adult discussion, don't act like a child. Thanks.

Rather than use the word "soul" as a human attribute, tell me the word that best summarizes the aspects of a man's soul excluding the spiritual aspects?

What kind of idiocy is this? A man doesn't have a soul, and as such I can't tell you a word that best describes this soul that man does not have, spiritual or otherwise.

Being a physchologist you should know a good word that summarizes a man's intellect, volition, personality, persona, moral qualities, emotions, and other qualities?

What is this need to compound all these things into one word, and where is it's relevance to anything? My last post was merely focused on the stupidity of trying to relate the soul as being real just because it's mentioned in a dictionary.

I looked up the word "atheist" in the dictionary, and it says an atheist is some one that does not believe in god or gods. You have expanded this to mean more.

How so? Because I said believing in a soul simply because the word features in a dictionary is stupid? Where did I expand anything?

I researched atheism in the wilkepedia, and you are apparantly from the rationalist sect

I'm not from any sect. You just keep making these giant and irrelevant 'leaps of faith'.

You should get a kick out of the pink unicorn argument (how can God have a color and be invisible at same time?)

Why would I get a kick out of it?

Now I ask you a question Snakelord, Could you please give me a rational explanation for this situation

Certainly.

I know someone that is a necromancer (we will call him "Ken"). He consults with familiar spirits of dead people.

Ok. First things first. I have no reason to trust you or believe you about "ken". This will only take 5 minutes to clear up...

His name, occupation, address, email, any newspaper articles, any 'necromancy' qualifications, list of witnesses, any documented film evidence, urine samples, past history and anything else you feel might be relevant.

Oh I'm sorry, did you think I had to just believe you because you said it? In that case.. I have a friend, we'll call him "Ben", and he's a leprechaun.

This individual is a member of the US civil air patrol.

Then it will be easier for me to contact him or colleagues and get some further information, other than just a false name. Please provide the details.

He uses a ouija board as his "medium."

Can he afford a video camera? If not I would be more than willing to provide one for him. He never once thought of recording these activities? If so, please provide the tapes.

He transcripts his discussions with these familiar spirits.

He transcripts? You mean, he writes down what he says happens? That seems like such a time consuming affair, and not needed if he takes 5 minutes to go out and buy a video camera.

A pilot went down in a jungle somewhere, and nobody could locate the aircraft.

Can you name the pilot, the type of aircraft, the jungle? Saying "somewhere" doesn't quite cut it. Do you even know where? Why say "somewhere"?

The local authorities searched, people searched from aircraft

What 'authorities'? What locality? What people?

they tracked and retracked his flight path, and they did everything they could to locate the missing pilot, but nobody could find him.

Any news reports concerning this?

The missing and presumed dead pilot was a member of the civil air patrol and the word got out to Ken .

Name, etc etc? And how did the word get out to Ken?

Ken was not a part of the search parties.

Why not?

Ken got out his ouija board and the flight pattern for the aircraft and he consulted with the spirit of the dead pilot.

Any video tapes showing this to be true? Where did he get the flight pattern? What type of ouija board was it? Where did he do this? Was he near the jungle? Did the spirit identify itself as the dead pilot?

The pilot's spirit showed Ken the coordinates where the aircraft went down with one of those pointed things you use on a ouija board.

What scale map was it? How did it point to a part of a map? (If a map is next to the ouija board, pointing in that direction would be pointing at the entire map - and if the map was on top of the ouija board then how could he see where the pointer was pointing)? Do ouija boards even have pointy things? Instead of saying a pointed thing which doesn't really explain much, could you just go to your friend Ken and take a photo of his ouija board for me?

The pilot was off the flight pattern when he crashed.

That would already be somewhat apparent if the search party had searched his flight path.

Ken got the word out to the search party and they located the aircraft and the dead pilot.

How did he get word out to them?

Do you have a rational explanation for what happened?

That's where you make the fatal mistake. You think 'rational' entails saying something like: "Ah well maybe perhaps he had been there before and had simply not realised until later", or some daft variant thereof - when in actuality being 'rational' means asking for important details instead of just believing the story of some unknown guy over the internet.

What have you provided here other than a story that anyone over the age of three can make up? You have provided no details whatsoever, you didn't even give this "Ken" a real name. You specifically asked me to be rational, and as a result, I have. It's amusing to think you expected something different, namely that I would say: "It was just luck". You have no understanding as to what 'rational' means do you?

but Ken also transcripted his discussion with the pilot.

He wrote down what he says happened? Can I get a copy of it? If you send it to me I'll send you the transcripted discussion I had with the Loch Ness monster several days ago.

Details Woody, details. You have provided nothing. No dates, places, names, nothing. I get the distinct impression that's not a choice, but simply that you can't.
 
SL,

OK,

The pointed thingee is called a "planchette." On a ouija board, the planchette is used to spell out letters and numbers. There aren't any audible voices. The transcripts are from the mind. He invited me to participate, but one of my church elders warned me to stay away from it.

I will try to contact Ken for you. I know him personally but he lives about 400 miles from me, in North Carolina. I worked with him for about two years. I am pretty sure he is still alive. He is half native american indian.

Speaking of which, I though at one time about being a sorcerer's apprentice under this indian cult:

Teachings of Don Juan

I had some bizarre things happen, and will discuss them some time. All of this stuff is "of the devil". I do not like giving him the glory.

What do you think about Duke University's school of parapshychology in Durham, North Carolina?

Duke University
 
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The pointed thingee is called a "planchette." On a ouija board, the planchette is used to spell out letters and numbers.

Ok, so the planchette flew off the board and landed on a specific part of the map? Ok, what scale was the map? What area did the map show? Hell, what country did the map show? What does jungle in a map look like? Etc etc etc.

There aren't any audible voices. The transcripts are from the mind.

I asked if it had been written down, not if it was audible. So basically you're saying that no written, audio or video records of this supposed occurence exist, except what this "friend" who you don't even know whether he's alive or not told you so sometime long ago?

I will try to contact Ken for you.

What good would that do me? What then, you'll come back, say: "yeah it's all real", and think thats sufficient?

I know him personally but he lives about 400 miles from me, in North Carolina.

I'm not that clued up about North Carolina. Is there a jungle there?

I worked with him for about two years.

So what's his name?

I am pretty sure he is still alive. He is half native american indian.

While I did state to include anything you feel is relevant, these two are somewhat pointless given that you ignored pretty much everything else I asked for.

Speaking of which, I though at one time about being a sorcerer's apprentice under this indian cult:

Teachings of Don Juan

What a fantastic way to try and avoid the subject. I don't care what you once considered doing. You gave a story, and I asked for details. You really think this supposed guy being half native American is sufficient?

I had some bizarre things happen, and will discuss them some time.

Where's the relevance to this subject? We were discussing this "friend" of yours and I asked you to provide details. Get to it. It can't be that hard can it? What happened, you remembered the basics but forgot every single detail, including your friends name?

All of this stuff is "of the devil". I do not like giving him the glory.

Right now I don't really care about you or your devil feelings. What I do care about is some details concerning this fantastical story about the "friend" who might or might not be dead.

What do you think about Duke University's school of parapshychology in Durham, North Carolina?

Stop being an ass. Why not just face the music, develop some maturity and admit you made it up? If it's true, provide some details and stop changing the subject to completely worthless and irrelevant issues.
 
SL,

Why not just face the music, develop some maturity and admit you made it up? If it's true, provide some details and stop changing the subject to completely worthless and irrelevant issues.

You haven't a clue about the other information, but it is all connected. It is not irrelevant to the matter at hand. I will try to contact Ken. He doesn't like atheists. He isn't real crazy about christians either.

You are a psychologist, what do you think about Duke university's school of parapsychology? The university is using scientific methods to evaluate:

o Consultations with spirits (the very thing we are discussing)
o clairvoyance
o hauntings
o ESP
o paranormal phenomena

This should be right up your alley if you are indeed a pshychologist like you say you are. Are you just making that up? Psychologists preside over the school.

I tried to brief you on this subject with the links provided, and you go into road block mode. You are totally oblivious to your own profession in this regard. Like Ken says, nothing kills a spiritual gift faster than an atheist in the house. They are like the spiritual kiss of death.
 
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Woody: Like Ken says, nothing kills a spiritual gift faster than an atheist in the house. They are like the spiritual kiss of death.
*************
M*W: That's news to me! I didn't realize us atheists had that kind of power! Funny thing is, most of the people I know and work with, including christians, say I am the most spiritual person they've ever known! Maybe our ideas of what spirituality is are two different things. I believe in the bioelectromagnetic field we have, and that also includes us atheists. We're not dead meat. In fact, the 'spirituality' of atheists is probably stronger than that of christians, because we don't try to suppress it. After all, spirituality is just a spot in our brain.
 
You haven't a clue about the other information, but it is all connected

What I know or don't know concerning you wanting to become a sorcerer or what some bunch of people are getting upto in North Carolina isn't of any relevance whatsoever. The only thing that is related to the issue we were speaking about is the university location being North Carolina - which is also the supposed location of Ken and the jungle.

It is not irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Yes it is. While it might be a briefly interesting side topic, it is of no relevance to your grandiose claims concerning a downed airplane.

I will try to contact Ken.

How?

He doesn't like atheists.

What are you trying to say? That it means you will contact him but then come back and say: "Well, I spoke to him, but he refuses to say anything because you're an atheist. But the story is still true". Man you just keep trying new excuses. The funny thing is, they're not even good ones.

He isn't real crazy about christians either.

I find it amusing that you can manage to tell me this supposed persons personal pet peeves and yet can't even manage to tell me his name, where the jungle is, or any other actual relevant details. Why is that?

You are a psychologist, what do you think about Duke university's school of parapsychology?

They are two completely different things. I have no idea why you're trying to make a comparison between them.

It's like trying to say meteorology and archaeology are the same thing because they both end in 'ology'.

o Consultations with spirits (the very thing we are discussing)
o clairvoyance
o hauntings
o ESP
o paranormal phenomena

All of which are completely unsubstantiated. It doesn't stop people making grandiose claims, (that they then fail on every count to back up), and nor does it stop people 'investigating' it. You'd be amazed what some universities 'investigate'. There's probably even a university right now investigating the long term effects of coco-pop consumption.

This should be right up your alley if you are indeed a pshychologist like you say you are.

Why should it be? What will you come out next, that an astronaut needs to be interested in alien abductions?

Are you just making that up?

Whatever pleases you and keeps you firmly away from the issues at hand.

Psychologists preside over the school.

O..k, and what would that have to do with me? There's psychologists all over the place, from Bangladesh to Blackpool. Are you saying I need to pay an interest in all of them?

I tried to brief you on this subject with the links provided, and you go into road block mode.

What did I tell you about not acting like a child? Listen, you're in no position to "brief" anyone. It is painfully obvious that you've got yourself confused about many things here, and instead of confronting and facing up to them, you just waffle on about some completely irrelevant horseshit in the hope that nobody will notice. It's a farce.

You are totally oblivious to your own profession in this regard.

Says the boy who isn't in the profession, and obviously has no understanding of it, to the man who is and does? You're either joking or smoking.

It's like trying to compare a carpenter with a lumberjack, or apples with oranges.

For someone who thinks he's in a position to 'brief' people, you should certainly be aware of that.

Like Ken says, nothing kills a spiritual gift faster than an atheist in the house. They are like the spiritual kiss of death.

It's really odd.. You seemingly don't remember his name, the jungle in question, the name of the company, name of the pilot, whether your 'friend' is dead or alive, his email address, etc and yet somehow supposedly remember a sentence he said the last time you saw him which was.. well, you probably don't remember that either.

We done?
 
Snakelord, Are you familiar with modren physics?
I dont mean in the overview of its development. How microscopic reality confounded (and still does) the physicists who were experimenting with physical realy and expected to find familiar answers.

Does not that quantum world point to anything for you. Like MACROSCOPIC reality might 'sometimes' be weirder than your worldview might be aware of?
 
Snakelord, Are you familiar with modren physics?
I dont mean in the overview of its development. How microscopic reality confounded (and still does) the physicists who were experimenting with physical realy and expected to find familiar answers.

Does not that quantum world point to anything for you. Like MACROSCOPIC reality might 'sometimes' be weirder than your worldview might be aware of?

My apologies but I don't know what you're getting at. While I did physics in school, I was never really that good at it, and I never took it to a higher level.

I also don't understand what you mean by "weirder". Sure, life can be weird.. Just the other day my pet dog ate some mud. That most certainly seemed weird to me. Give me an idea of what you mean by weird. In context of the current discussion I would guess "weird" relates to things like ghosts, telekinesis, oobe's, clairvoyance and the missing crew of the Mary Celeste - in which case no, I don't.

There just might be a giant floating banana sitting on Jupiter's third moon. However, until such time where there is substantial evidence to support such a thing, it has to remain as a piece of fiction. The same applies to other such incredulous ideas like the ones shown above.

I might be wrong, maybe ghosts, (who all seem to like wearing 18th century clothing), do exist. But as a demand of rationality, they remain fiction until such time where the evidence shows otherwise.

Does that answer your question?
 
OK Snakelord,

I contacted Ken by telephone this evening and I have his email address. Before I turn him over to you I want to make sure he is in agreement with your "inquisition" before I lose a friend. I doubt you will listen to anything he says anyway, and you will probably be rather rude. I am not going to give you his last name in the public domain. He has been DNA matched as a direct descendent of Prince Madoc of Wales from the 1100s. He is one of only 200 "white indians" in the world -- he is half shawnee. The white half came before christopher columbus arrived in america.

I will paraphrase what he told me. I don't think he has the transcripts any longer. He has given up ouija boarding because the demon possession risks were getting out of hand.

Anyway, this is what happened according to Ken: A certain individual was flying his aircraft from Charlotte, North Carolina to a destination in the midwest, where he was having an affair. His wife did not know about it. He was drunk when he took off from Charlotte in his private aircraft. The aircraft disappeared. Nobody had any idea where he was, whether he went down in the Appalachian mountains, or in some other state. There was no flight chart to go by. Nobody even knew where to start looking. We are talking about a geographic area about the size of England.

Ken took out his ouija board and called for the man's spirit, whether he was dead or alive. The man's spirit answered that he was dead. Ken asked him where his aircraft went down. The spirit helped him spell out: "5 miles south of Troy" on his Ouija board. Troy is about 50 miles from charlotte and way off-course from the expected route the pilot would have taken. It is also located in the middle of the Uwharrie National Forest, which is a large uninhabited wilderness area with about 100 square miles of forested land and hundreds of small mountains (it is about 100 miles away from the Appalachians).

Upon Ken's advice, a search party looked 5 miles south of Troy and found the aircraft hidden in some tree tops. The aircraft was folded up inside the branches on a couple of trees, and it was very well concealed from view.

Concerning Duke University's shool of parapsychology you said:

While it might be a briefly interesting side topic, it is of no relevance to your grandiose claims concerning a downed airplane.

Duke's School of Parapsychology has been around since 1927, and you just skipped right over it -- it's irrelevant you say. Finding a lost body with a ouija board is a paranormal event ***get it ***get it. Let me say it again so it gets through that thick head of yours. Finding a lost body using a ouija board is a paranormal event. DO I need to repeat it again so you finally make the connection?

You have never even heard of Dr. J. B. Rhine the father of modern parapsychology, and founder of the Duke parapsychology department? Surely you have heard of "ESP." Dr. Rhine coined the term.
 
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