How jesus is the son of God

Woody: I knew God as a small child, and it was a natural thing. Jesus loves children, and they love Him. In the bible, the disciples forbade small children from coming to Jesus while He was teaching. The children just wanted to jump in His lap.

Jesus scolded His disciples for it, and He wanted the children to come to Him. He said all people must come to Him like a child. That is how they receive Him. That is how I received Him as a 29 year old man. I came to Him as a child, and I asked Him to forgive me. I felt like a child, and I was restored as a child.

Was this your experience when you became a christian?
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MW*: No, as a child I lived in a fairly agnostic home. My mother, who was raised hard-shell Southern Bapatist, was a tad more religious than my dad who was raised Methodist. The only times I went to church was when I accompanied my neighborhood friends to the local Primitive Baptist Church in the deep South in South Carolina. One Sunday near Easter, the Sunday school teacher asked us to say something to Jesus because he had died for us. I was a very timid and bashful child and direly afraid to speak in public, and the teacher called on me first. I was shaken with fear, but the first thought that came to my young mind was to say, "Jesus, I'm sorry you had to die." The Sunday school teacher came over and slapped me across my face, and I nearly fell out of my chair. Then she went into a rage using me as an example of what NOT to say to Jesus! She said Jesus died for all of us, and for my being sorry for that, I would burn in hell! Needless to say, I never went back. I was agnostic through high school and never really gave religion any thought. When I had children, I decided I wanted to raise them with religion, and my husband's family were Catholic. I took instructions for a year and was re-baptized into the RCC. I believed in what I was taught. I also taught catechism for 17+ years. I was an elected official on our parish council. I did the whole catholic thing, traveled to shrines in Europe, and really lived my faith. The more I learned, the more I wanted to know. Then the more I knew about my religion, the farther I distanced myself from it. I'm not just saying catholicism here, because catholicism was my avenue to christianity. It was the inexplicable things in christianity that my priests couldn't answer. Some refused to answer, and some told me to quit asking. Then the last priest I ever spoke with told me that women shouldn't be questioning the bible. That did it. When I went to The Vatican, I couldn't find Jesus anywhere, but Paul was there, and Peter was everywhere. I went there to get closer to Jesus, and to try to understand his will more clearly, but there was nothing spiritually fulfilling about the place. I'm a very sensitive person, and while I was in St. Peter's, I just kept getting chills up and down my spine -- not from all the glitz and glitter but a feeling that something wasn't right. It felt demonic. When I returned home, I began studying everything I could so I could understand my eerie sensations in The Vatican and in Rome. Rome had just become a communist country, and I just told myself that this was what was bugging me. In reality, it wasn't that. It was the total unsurety I felt in The Vatican. I got to shake the new pope's hand, JPII. I arrived in Rome the very day of his coronation as pope. I don't blame him at all. He's just doing a job. I believe he is onto the conspiracies and cover-ups, and I think that's why he's publically apologized for the past horrors of the Church. The more certain cover-ups are about Mary Magdalen, Jesus, his children, and his Mother. I'm sure there are many more, the worst being the lies and manipulations of Paul. The connection between Christianity and the Pagan gods became obvious to me. It was a real spiritual let-down. Christianity as a true religion didn't even exist! Pagan beliefs were simply reworded by Paul to reel in the Gentiles. It is no wonder that today christians are leaving their faith by the droves. Maybe they have experienced the same things I did. Maybe they have awakened to the truth.
 
Musta,

I agree with the first but not the next two, but this has no relevance, to the questions ask you see exactly what I mean ( boring)

You do not agree that man has a soul at all? Please be specific.
 
MW said,

My mother, who was raised hard-shell Southern Baptist, was a tad more religious than my dad who was raised Methodist.

I'm baptist married to a methodist from South Carolina.

The only times I went to church was when I accompanied my neighborhood friends to the local Primitive Baptist Church in the deep South in South Carolina.

It sounds like your parents didn't care much for church.

You said as a child:

"Jesus, I'm sorry you had to die."

I'm still sorry he had to die, and I've told Him on many occasions. Geez, I didn't realize I was "sinning" as your sunday school teacher says:

The Sunday school teacher came over and slapped me across my face, and I nearly fell out of my chair. Then she went into a rage using me as an example of what NOT to say to Jesus!

Wow, whatta a bad sunday school experience! I've heard of worse -- Primitive Baptists eh? Yeah, they sound pretty uncivil alright! Fat chance I'll ever play a guitar in their church!

She said Jesus died for all of us, and for my being sorry for that, I would burn in hell!

You wouldn't happen to remember the name of that teacher and the church, would you? I would be glad to have a repremand sent to them.

When I had children, I decided I wanted to raise them with religion, and my husband's family were Catholic.

Right idea, wrong religion, Uh oh. So the man of the house wasn't much on board.

I was an elected official on our parish council. I did the whole catholic thing, traveled to shrines in Europe, and really lived my faith. The more I learned, the more I wanted to know. Then the more I knew about my religion, the farther I distanced myself from it. I'm not just saying catholicism here, because catholicism was my avenue to christianity. It was the inexplicable things in christianity that my priests couldn't answer. Some refused to answer, and some told me to quit asking. Then the last priest I ever spoke with told me that women shouldn't be questioning the bible.

Those priests are definitely accountable for your situation. They betrayed you.

I'm a very sensitive person, and while I was in St. Peter's, I just kept getting chills up and down my spine -- not from all the glitz and glitter but a feeling that something wasn't right. It felt demonic.

You aren't alone in this feeling.

more certain cover-ups are about Mary Magdalen, Jesus, his children, and his Mother. I'm sure there are many more, the worst being the lies and manipulations of Paul. The connection between Christianity and the Pagan gods became obvious to me. It was a real spiritual let-down. Christianity as a true religion didn't even exist! Pagan beliefs were simply reworded by Paul to reel in the Gentiles

Yes, I am aware of some of the cover-ups, not those in particular. I know that Rome decided if they couldn't kill all christians they would become christians themselves and merge the pagan celebrations -- halloween, easter. Paul was beheaded by the Romans before catholicism started.

It is no wonder that today christians are leaving their faith by the droves. Maybe they have experienced the same things I did. Maybe they have awakened to the truth.

Your story is one of many. I know several catholics that left catholicism to join independent christian churches. One is a preacher, one is over a special needs ministry, and another is married to my brother.

I see your son decided to leave catholocism too. Good for him. What does he say about your experience? You have told him about it, right? He too was a catholic for a while, correct?
 
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Woody said:
You do not agree that man has a soul at all? Please be specific.
do you not know what irrelevant means, or do you not know how to answer a question.
however I will humour you, I have no believe in god/gods devils/demons santa fairys unicorns souls etc, infact anything, fanciful, supernatural, spirits/spiritual, immaterial, in the realms of fantasy, is that so hard to grasp.
please dont reply unless you intend answering my previous questions, thank you.
 
Woody: I'm baptist married to a methodist from South Carolina.

It sounds like your parents didn't care much for church.
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M*W: Right. Interestingly, they didn't attend church as kids, because they lived in the most remote part of Appalachia and their families didn't have cars. That was the norm in the coal camps of Southern WV. Very few people actually attended church, because they didn't have transportation to it. Everyone listened to religious programs on the radio before TV came to the coal camps in the late 50s, and only two people that I knew had TVs then. We never had a TV in our house. We had a big stand-up radio, a player piano, and a victrola for entertainment in the 50s. We came down from the mountains to walk to town to pick-up our mail. Things were primitive there, even in the 20th century. Oh, well, I digress.
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Woody: Wow, whatta a bad sunday school experience! I've heard of worse -- Primitive Baptists eh? Yeah, they sound pretty uncivil alright! Fat chance I'll ever play a guitar in their church!
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M*W: After that experience, I really doubted Christianity.
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Woody: Right idea, wrong religion, Uh oh. So the man of the house wasn't much on board.
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M*W: Hell, no. I was married, but he was not. Everything he did, he did for show. He liked to play the high-roller, and his 'friends' would come out of the woodwork, but he was too stupid to see it. Today, after an illustrious military career that he ended sticking up his ass, he hasn't done anything gainful for his new family either. He's the type of 'christian' that stands on the street corner with his bible, screaming out scripture. It wouldn't surprise me if he's got a tin can with him! What a loser!

Since all christian religions came out of catholicism, there really is no difference between them. However, since I learned Catholicism, I still think that if there is a christian religion -- it would be catholicism. I don't consider the christian religion of today to be what Jesus taught, though. Christianity today is what Paul taught, and it defied what Jesus taught. I left the catholic church mainly because of Paul's pagan influence.
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Woody: Those priests are definitely accountable for your situation. They betrayed you.
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M*W: You know, I really don't blame the priests entirely for my departure. They were just doing a job, and I feel quite sure there weren't many other people who presented them with questions they shouldn't be answering. I've had some of the best priests that anyone could have. My priest even told me that I should leave my husband because he was an apostate. The church sanctioned my divorce, and I got a church annulment. I don't blame the priests at all. What I did was go beyond the range of their christian teachings. All they did was encourage me to not ask questions. I wasn't satisfied with their answers and continued to look for my own.
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Woody: You aren't alone in this feeling. Yes, I am aware of some of the cover-ups, not those in particular. I know that Rome decided if they couldn't kill all christians they would become christians themselves and merge the pagan celebrations -- halloween, easter. Paul was beheaded by the Romans before catholicism started.
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M*W: Catholic doctrine says the the Catholic Church ("catholic" doesn't mean not christian. "Catholic" means the "one holy universal apostolic (teaching) church" of Jesus Christ). Paul was beheaded after Peter allegedly was appointed leader of the catholic church. However, Paul was jealous of Peter in this position, but that's what Paul wrote about Peter being the rock, and Jesus saying that upon this rock I will build my church, etc., but that's not what that means. The RCC believes Peter to be the first Pope. He's even buried in the mausoleum under St. Peter's Basilica. God, it's dark and stinks in there! Paul turned on Peter before he was beheaded. In fact, it was Paul's doing that got Peter imprisoned and crucified. I've been to the very dungeon in Nero's Circus where Peter and Paul were held captive and murdered, but I'm not saying that their demise was a sad occasion. They were more harmful to true Christianity than anyone else.
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Woody: Your story is one of many. I know several catholics that left catholicism to join independent christian churches. One is a preacher, one is over a special needs ministry, and another is married to my brother.
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M*W: I could never go back to christianity after coming this far away from it. I have learned all the lies they told me were truths, and I have finally learned the truths they told me were lies. There's no going back.
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Woody: I see your son decided to leave catholocism too. Good for him. What does he say about your experience? You have told him about it, right? He too was a catholic for a while, correct?
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M*W: Yes, my son left catholicism, but not for the same reasons I did. He still believes that Jesus is his personal savior and all. He wants to talk to me all the time about his religion, but he doesn't give me the courtesy of listening to my beliefs. If I start talking about what I believe, he just high-tails it out of the room. He believes that even hearing about atheism is a sin. Of course, he prays for me all the time, and as his mother, I appreciate his prayers because he loves me -- not because he's right.
 
MW,

So you grew up in southern West Virginia. I know where Bluefield is. I lived about an hour from there. Appalachia is still poor and I don't see it changing much.

I am sorry things did not work out for you. The devil has his appointees in the church to make sure bad things happen. I know because I have been a victim too, and it can be a lonely feeling. It's a constant battle in the church. When someone rises in the church body, the devil is right there with every trick in the book -- lies, temptations, division, heresies, betrayal. Church is his favorite hang-out.

I have attached my personal testimony on how I came to Christ. This week I am interviewing for a music performance position.
 
Medicine Woman said:
M*W: It's quite safe to assume that Jesus was androgynous as it is documented in the Gnostic Gospels.

If Jesus was the product of imaculate conception :

1. his chromosomes cannot be 'xx' as he was not female.
2. he could not have 'xy' chromosomes (male) as there were no source for 'y' chromosomes.

either he had a mysterious chromosome structure or no chromosomes at all.
that is asexual in the sense above 'sex'.
 
everneo said:
If Jesus was the product of imaculate conception :

1. his chromosomes cannot be 'xx' as he was not female.
2. he could not have 'xy' chromosomes (male) as there were no source for 'y' chromosomes.

either he had a mysterious chromosome structure or no chromosomes at all.
that is asexual in the sense above 'sex'.

Again....myth is being read literally, and reductively--ie., not comparing that myth with other myths about androgynous god~men
For example Herme~Aphrodite........Dionysos being 'effeminate' etc
what these myths are pointing to, sub-superficial story is the 'sacred hallucinogenic mushroom' and how the phallic stalk meets the feminine cap in an amphibious union...other associations mean the DIRECt spiritual dynamic union of complimentary opposites...such as is explored in the very ancient mythic tale of Tiresias who was said to be 'amphibious' because he lived his life as a man and a woman.
 
Woody said:
Hi MW,

I showed Al Hussein my religion table, and look what happened: It's like He was totally spooked by it all.

Ya u showed me the table i saw it ,now wat do u want me to do?
and What was i spooked by? :rolleyes:
 
everneo said:
If Jesus was the product of imaculate conception :

1. his chromosomes cannot be 'xx' as he was not female.
2. he could not have 'xy' chromosomes (male) as there were no source for 'y' chromosomes.

either he had a mysterious chromosome structure or no chromosomes at all.
that is asexual in the sense above 'sex'.

Jesus was androgynous mentally, not physically.
 
Yorda: Jesus was androgynous mentally, not physically.
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M*W: How do you know? Provide a reference for this statement.
 
Al Hussein said,

Ya u showed me the table i saw it ,now wat do u want me to do?
and What was i spooked by?

I wanted you to help me complete the muslim part of the table. Is it correct? What needs to be changed? Do more questions need to be added to the table?

thanks

here is the table again:
 
musta said,

please dont reply unless you intend answering my previous questions, thank you.

Without any common ground, I can not answer your questions. You do not believe man has a soul. The dictionary says man does have a soul. Here is a list of dictionary meanings on the word "soul":

1 : the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2 a : the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings,
3 : a person's total self
4 a : an active or essential part b : a moving spirit :
5 a : the moral and emotional nature of human beings b : the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment c : spiritual or moral force : FERVOR
6 : PERSON
7 : EXEMPLIFICATION, PERSONIFICATION <she is the soul of integrity>
8 a : a strong positive feeling (as of intense sensitivity and emotional fervor) conveyed especially by black American performers

If you do not have a soul then you are not a living, moral, rational creature according to the dictionary definition of a soul. Take your argument to the writers of the english dictionary. When we have our terminology in order, then we can talk. I stick with the english dictionary as the authority on definitions. It says human beings have a soul by definition. Are athiests aliens? I don't think so. What meaning of the word "soul" do you not understand?
 
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Woody said:
...
I have attached my personal testimony on how I came to Christ. This week I am interviewing for a music performance position.

What in the world is the purpose of that document? That's the weirdest thing. Did you have it stamped and notarized by an angel, because otherwise, it's invalid, and you have to go to the back of the line.

Seriously, it another example of trying to come to terms with the inherent uncertainty about living, trying to find something concrete that you can hold on to, when actually it's sending you to the bottom of the spiritual ocean, closing off any chance of growth. Swim.
 
SG said,

What in the world is the purpose of that document? That's the weirdest thing. Did you have it stamped and notarized by an angel, because otherwise, it's invalid, and you have to go to the back of the line.

Seriously, it another example of trying to come to terms with the inherent uncertainty about living, trying to find something concrete that you can hold on to, when actually it's sending you to the bottom of the spiritual ocean, closing off any chance of growth. Swim.

This is my living testament of faith. All christians have a testament of faith, though it is not necessarily written down somewhere.

Spidergoat, You are not pleased with my testimony, this is because you are not a Christian. The music worship director says it is a great testimony, and he wishes to discuss it more. He knows the power of a God-given testimony, but this leaves you befuddled. Our church has a membership of more than 8000 people, and the worship services are televised. My chance to be a movie star :cool: Just kidding, actually I'm shy on stage. But God can make it happen! I'm excited about this opportunity in ministry.
 
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Woody said:
musta
Without any common ground, I can not answer your questions. You do not believe man has a soul. The dictionary says man does have a soul. Here is a list of dictionary meanings on the word "soul":

1 : the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2 a : the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings,
3 : a person's total self
4 a : an active or essential part b : a moving spirit :
5 a : the moral and emotional nature of human beings b : the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment c : spiritual or moral force : FERVOR
6 : PERSON
7 : EXEMPLIFICATION, PERSONIFICATION <she is the soul of integrity>
8 a : a strong positive feeling (as of intense sensitivity and emotional fervor) conveyed especially by black American performers

If you do not have a soul then you are not a living, moral, rational creature according to the dictionary definition of a soul. Take your argument to the writers of the english dictionary. When we have our terminology in order, then we can talk. I stick with the english dictionary as the authority on definitions. It says human beings have a soul by definition. Are athiests aliens? I don't think so. What meaning of the word "soul" do you not understand?
I believe you will find that all atheists have no belief in a soul, and for the very same reasons they dont believe in a god.
so perhaps this will help, I took the liberty of adding another dictionary .

SOUL
1. The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and conceived as an immaterial entity.
2. The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.[
3. The disembodied spirit of a dead human.
4. A human: “the homes of some nine hundred souls” (Garrison Keillor).
5. The central or integral part; the vital core: “It saddens me that this network... may lose its soul, which is after all the quest for news” (Marvin Kalb).
6. A person considered as the perfect embodiment of an intangible quality; a personification: I am the very soul of discretion.
7. A person's emotional or moral nature: “An actor is... often a soul which wishes to reveal itself to the world but dare not” (Alec Guinness).
8. A sense of ethnic pride among Black people and especially African Americans, expressed in areas such as language, social customs, religion, and music.
9. A strong, deeply felt emotion conveyed by a speaker, a performer, or an artist.
10. Soul music.
dictionary .com

soul or spirit

A soul or spirit is a non-physical entity

If ever there were an entity invented for human wish-fulfillment, the soul is that entity. As Thomas Hobbes pointed out, the concept of a non-substantial substance is a contradiction. It is not possible to imagine a non-physical entity having life and perception. Even believers in souls always imagine them as being like human shaped clouds or fogs. It is a delusion to believe that the concept of soul is conceivable. Yet, billions of people have believed in a non-spatial perceiver which can travel through space and perceive and interpret vibrations and waves in the air without any sense organs.

Work done by philosophers and psychologists based on the assumption of a non-physical entity, which somehow inhabits and interacts with the human body, has not furthered human understanding of the working of the mind. Instead, it has furthered superstition and ignorance while hindering the development of any real and useful knowledge about the human mind. More promising is the work of those who see consciousness in terms of brain functioning and who try to treat 'mental' illness as primarily a physical problem. Two vast industries have been made both possible and lucrative by this belief in a non-entity in need of treatment from experts in non-entities: religion and psychology. A third industry, philosophy, also flourishes in great part due to the concept of soul: a good many philosophers write books and articles based on the assumption of the existence of spirits, while a good many others make a living writing refutations and criticisms of those books and articles. It seems that the skeptic and the believer need each other!
skeptic dictionary

the meaning of the word soul.

Whenever I peruse a dictionary, I am struck by the amazing number of words which refer to nothing at all in the real world. Many of the words are obviously fabulous: leprechaun, unicorn, gremlin, Philosopher's Stone, Zeus, elf, Fountain of Youth, ghost, etc. Others, though referring equally to on-existent things, are less obviously fabulous: The Mean Sun, The Average Citizen, vital force, spirit, soul, and - in at least some of its accepted meanings - mind.

Why the human species has invented so many words which refer to nothing in reality is a most interesting question for scientific investigation, and probably would require a complete book to elucidate properly. In this article I shall only attempt to deal with a few such words, specifically, the words spirit, soul, and mind. It is a striking fact that nearly all languages of the world, extinct as well as extant, have or have had words which could be rendered as
'spirit' or 'soul' in English, At first glance, it would seem that this is a good argument in favor of the real existence of souls and spirits. For, would it not be improbable that so many different peoples and languages could be mistaken? If many different unrelated languages have independently invented words for soul, is that not a good reason to believe they did so because there really is such a thing? I think not. The first clue to the solution of this puzzle comes from etymology, the study of word origins. While the origin of the English word soul is obscure, the word almost certainly had its origin in a word which meant 'breath' or 'wind' or 'air', or something like that. The word spirit generally a synonym for soul comes from the Latin spiritus, and clearly meant 'breath' originally. Spiritual and respiratory both derive from the same root!
Moreover, if we check in the Greek and Hebrew bibles to see which words are translated as 'soul', etc., in the King James Version, we will find many whose literal meaning is 'breath' or 'wind'. For example, the Hebrew word neshamah (literally meaning 'breath') is twice rendered as 'spirit', once as 'soul'. The Hebrew-Aramaic word ruach (lit., 'wind') is rendered 240 times as 'spirit', six times as 'mind.' The word nephesh (lit., 'breath') is rendered 'soul' 428 times) 'mind' 15 times, 'ghost' twice, and 'life' 119 times. Turning to the Greek Bible, we find pneuma (lit., 'breath') rendered as 'ghost' 91 times (including the rendering 'Holy Ghost'), 292 times as 'spirit'. The reader will recognize the same root in the word pneumonia, a word referring to a disease of the organs of breath. And finally, in this somewhat pedantic parade of words, we may note the important word psyche. As expected, its literal meaning is 'breath.'
As we might have guessed, it is rendered as 'soul' 58 times, 'mind' three times, and life' 40 times. The fact that nearly all words now meaning 'soul', 'spirit', 'life', etc., trace their origins to words meaning 'breath' or 'wind' leads me to conclude that the derived meanings were an outgrowth of the inability of primitive people to solve a basic biological puzzle, namely, what constitutes the difference between a live body and a dead one? To the ancient authors of the Bible men who still thought they were living on a flat earth beneath a solid sky (firmament) the solution seemed deceptively simple: living things breathe, dead things do not.
by Frank R. Zindler

and mistys thread:http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=45636

so know perhaps woody you will understand that anything, and I mean anything, that resides in the realms of fantasy, is just illogical and irrational, to the atheist.
 
Audible said:

I took the liberty of adding another dictionary

What dictionary did you use? It disagrees with the following:

o Merriam Webster's
o Oxford English
o American Heritage

Perhap's you could agree with this definition from the wordsmyth dictionairy:

Soul:

The spiritual dimension of human beings, regarded by some religions as immortal, and viewed as distinct from the physical body.

so now perhaps woody you will understand that anything, and I mean anything, that resides in the realms of fantasy, is just illogical and irrational, to the atheist.

Now I understand why I can't talk with an atheist using plain old ordinary english. WE have yet another euphemism to step around so we won't get all over your sensitivities.

If I said a human has a personality: you would agree.
If I said a human has a conscience: you would agree.
If I said a humans are capable of rational thought : you would agree.
If I said a human is capable of having morals: you would agree.

If I said all these things sum up to a persons "persona": you would probably agree.
But If I said all these things sum up to a person's "soul" you would disagree.

You would disagree merely because there is a connotation by some people concerning an afterlife. Hence the word "soul" becomes a four letter word in the atheist vocabulary. So what word can I use in place of "soul" to describe what a soul is?

The soul, in plain english, is the way to describe a person's attributes other than the physically measurable ones.

How much volume does a person's personality occupy? How much does there personality weigh? These are physical, real, rational measurements and they can not be applied to a person's persona, personality, moral character, etc. What units does an atheist use to measure these qualities in real, physical, tangible, touchable, feelable terms?

Without a language to communicate in, I suppose it would be best for me to stop. I might as well be talking to a dead person.
 
SnakeLord said:
Fuck, that's so incredibly stupid it made me choke on my tea.

Woody might have mistyped 'dictionary' instead of 'bible'. Is it not an improvement ?!!!
 
Woody might have mistyped 'dictionary' instead of 'bible'. Is it not an improvement ?!!!

Ah, that makes it all better. If it was down to what the dictionary said well then leprechauns, fairies, mermaids and uhh... atheism... would all be true, and we all know that's just ludicrous.

Oh wait.. The bible says unicorns, dragons, giants, and four headed creatures are real.


Argggggg I can't cope anymore. That's it, I give up. It's all real, there truly are floating banjo playing bananas, and that dude from the X Files really did shoot Kennedy.

Strange, I finally feel as if I am actually sane, and have seen the light. Wow.
 
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