How jesus is the son of God

[Itseemstome]

I thought that the relationships of the Geographical cubit/ Royal cubit/ Pik belady/ Egyptian foot/ Remens/ Geographical foot were 100/ 88/80/77/150/125 and thus all related to the size of the planet. The only one missing is the Megalithic yard, at .829 metres, and that is the length of a particular pendulum. How the Aztec (1.05946 metres) and Cambodian whatever it is (.43545 metres ) fit in I don't know.

 

[Itseemstome]

Yes, sorry I changed the subject. Presumably, if God exists, we only meet him, if we are lucky, after death and since our physical body doesn't survive death the only thing that can meet him is mind. That being the case He is presumably asexual and probably indescribable to our limited way of thinking.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Woody: Hi MW,

I showed Al Hussein my religion table, and look what happened: It's like He was totally spooked by it all. Then I answered Musta about the trinity and she ran off so she wouldn't catch a religion. So the subject is cubits.

By the way, how is your son doing with the music ministry. Your situation reminds me of Madilyn Murray O'Hare and her son here in the USA. She was a very vocal atheist that put an end to prayer in public schools, and her son became a christian preacher. They were travelling together in an automobile and both of them disappeared many years ago. They've never been found.
*************
M*W: I believe their remains were found. Weren't their bodies found with their heads and appendages cut off? I'm nothing like MMO. I don't discuss my beliefs with my son even though he tries to preach to everybody about his. Regardless of what he plays and sings, he's one of the best musicians I've ever seen. He was in a couple of rock bands and was financially successful, but he gave that up for religion. Unfortunately, as a rule, I have no one at home to talk to about my beliefs. Sciforums is my extended family.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Itseemstome: That being the case He is presumably asexual and probably indescribable to our limited way of thinking.
*************
M*W: It's quite safe to assume that Jesus was androgynous as it is documented in the Gnostic Gospels.

 

[Woody]

SL said,

Getting back to what god looks like briefly..

Although we can't give an exact description, we all know he's white... right?

His clothes are white anyway, and so is his hair. Jesus was Jewish, not caucasian, if that's what you are asking.

These are the best descriptions of God's appearance according to the Bible:

Daniel 10:6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

2 Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Rev 1: 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Matthew 28:

2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

I prayed to the Lord about the people on this forum. There are so many atheists here. I said to the Lord, "You know those atheists are totally useless to you, I don't blame you for sending them to Hell (and there was a time when I deserved the same thing). Look at them -- you could show them your very best and they would just write it off. Why don't you go ahead and let them go to hell? Let them find out for themselves. They don't want you, it's pointless for me to say anything to them. I can't stop them."

The God I pray to said this to me: He said it grieves Him deeply to send anyone to hell. He is very unhappy about it. And yes, he is disturbed about sending atheists to Hell.

He did not ask me to tell anyone, but I just happened to think of it. Atheists are no different from anyone else -- that was His point. Whether the Lord wants me on this forum or not, I can't really say. It's up to me.

 

[§outh§tar]

I told the Lord -- you know those atheists are totally useless to you, I don't blame you for sending them to Hell

Goddamn those atheists!

Literally.

 

[§outh§tar]

I told the Lord -- you know those atheists are totally useless to you, I don't blame you for sending them to Hell [...] Why don't you go ahead and just let them go to hell?

Goddamn those atheists!

Literally.

 

[Woody]

SS said,

Goddamn those atheists!

Literally.

That is not what I thought -- It's more like "Give it up Lord, there is no hope for them, nothing is going to change."

I am frustrated with it but I never ask God to damn anyone.

 

[§outh§tar]

SS said,



That is not what I thought -- It's more like "Give it up Lord, there is no hope for them, nothing is going to change."

I am frustrated with it but I never ask God to damn anyone.

Were you commanding God to give up on atheists? Or were you advising him?

Which one?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Woody: That is not what I thought -- It's more like "Give it up Lord, there is no hope for them, nothing is going to change."

I am frustrated with it but I never ask God to damn anyone.
*************
M*W: Woody, don't waste your time worrying about us atheists. We are atheists because of two things:

1. We were raised in atheistic/agnostic homes and followed suit; or
2. we were raised as christians or another religion, but we found out the truth about your god.

Babies are not born knowing religion. It is taught to them and imbedded in their consciousness. There may be atheists who have never been religious, but I would venture to say that most atheists have had some experience with Judaism or some extensive experience with Christianity. One must know their enemy before they conquer it.

Being concerned about us atheists going to hell, and praying to your god for our redemption, is about as useful as you praying for your own redemption. You are free to believe what you want to believe, but you shouldn't include others as participants in your belief system. Atheists are responsible for themselves in this world. We take responsibility for our own actions and our behavior toward others.

In other words, it is a lost cause to pray for us atheists. Pray to your god for you and your family, but you need not include us in your prayers. If there was a god, he would be obvious to us and we wouldn't be atheists.

 

[mis-t-highs]

I prayed to the Lord about the people on this forum. There are so many atheists here. I said to the Lord, "You know those atheists are totally useless to you, I don't blame you for sending them to Hell (and there was a time when I deserved the same thing). Look at them -- you could show them your very best and they would just write it off. Why don't you go ahead and let them go to hell? Let them find out for themselves. They don't want you, it's pointless for me to say anything to them. I can't stop them."

being omniscience, omnipresent, and omnipotence. god knew I would be an atheist, and he knew I would go to hell, he made me just to go to hell.

The God I pray to said this to me: He said it grieves Him deeply to send anyone to hell. He is very unhappy about it. And yes, he is disturbed about sending atheists to Hell.

BS of course it does not grieve it, it knew I would go to hell it made me that way.

He did not ask me to tell anyone, but I just happened to think of it. Atheists are no different from anyone else -- that was His point. Whether the Lord wants me on this forum or not, I can't really say. It's up to me.

god made me who I am, who are you to question it's veracity.

 

[mustafhakofi]

I answered Musta about the trinity and she ran off so she wouldn't catch a religion.

no you did not answer me, and I have'nt run.
I get fed up of repeating myself, if you once answers the questions asked, then perhaps people would not get bored with you. your counter arguements are diabolicaly bad, ad nauseam.

 

[Woody]

mis-t-high said,

BS of course it does not grieve it, it knew I would go to hell it made me that way.

The God I pray to says it grieves Him deeply to send people to hell. He has a delimma. My God must not be the same God you are talking about. He continues to wait patiently on you while I have given up on you. Aren't you glad I'm not God?

 

[Woody]

Musta said,

no you did not answer me, and I have'nt run.

I am puzzled: You asked me for the bible verses and I gave them to you; I also gave you an on-line concordance where you could look them up and see them in the bible.

According to the bible I am trying to answer questions that are spiritually discerned, and this is where the communication breaks down. Please don't take this as a sleight to your intelligence. For me, it's like explaining a culture to someone that has not lived in it or seen it.

I don't understand the kind of answer you are looking for. Are you looking for substantiation according to the bible, according to something else, or what? Perhaps you could start with just one simple question and go from there. Perhaps I should leave out the bible verses.

 

[Woody]

MW said,

Babies are not born knowing religion. It is taught to them and imbedded in their consciousness.

I knew God as a small child, and it was a natural thing. Jesus loves children, and they love Him. In the bible, the disciples forbade small children from coming to Jesus while He was teaching. The children just wanted to jump in His lap.

Jesus scolded His disciples for it, and He wanted the children to come to Him. He said all people must come to Him like a child. That is how they receive Him. That is how I received Him as a 29 year old man. I came to Him as a child, and I asked Him to forgive me. I felt like a child, and I was restored as a child.

Was this your experience when you became a christian?

 

[Woody]

SS said,

Were you commanding God to give up on atheists? Or were you advising him?

Which one?

I told God that I was giving up on athiests, and I advised Him to do the same.

May I quote MW:

Being concerned about us atheists going to hell, and praying to your god for our redemption, is about as useful as you praying for your own redemption. You are free to believe what you want to believe, but you shouldn't include others as participants in your belief system. Atheists are responsible for themselves in this world. We take responsibility for our own actions and our behavior toward others.

This is exactly the point I made to the God I pray to: It's a useless excercise on my part. But God is not the same as me. He has to be the judge. He is up to the job, but He wishes for a different outcome. He did not create man in order to judge man to Hell. Satan is buying time for himself by diverting souls to hell. God is still waiting for souls to come to Him.

 

[mis-t-highs]

mis-t-high said,



The God I pray to says it grieves Him deeply to send people to hell. He has a delimma. My God must not be the same God you are talking about. He continues to wait patiently on you while I as a human have given up on you. Aren't you glad I'm not God?

so your god is not the god of the KJB, it is not omniscience, omnipresent, and omnipotence. and you believe your better then it.
I could not give a toss if you were a god, I fear not, as I dont live in the realm of fantasy.

 

[mustafhakofi]

I am puzzled: You asked me for the bible verses and I gave them to you;

no you did'nt

I also gave you an on-line concordance where you could look them up and see them in the bible.

yes you did I did not need it, I ask you to give the book, and verse.

According to the bible I am trying to answer questions that are spiritually discerned, and this is where the communication breaks down.

yes it does because you dont answer whats asked.

Please don't take this as a sleight to your intelligence. For me, it's like explaining a culture to someone that has not lived in it or seen it.

you cant possible sleight me.I've lived and I've seen.
but that statement would say to me that your not sure of yourself.

I don't understand the kind of answer you are looking for. Are you looking for substantiation according to the bible, according to something else, or what? Perhaps you could start with just one simple question and go from there.

but you cant even answer the simple ones, what I had asked was quite clear, you can understand why people get bored of asking.( see below, and tell me whats hard about those questions.)

Perhaps I should leave out the bible verses.

they dont help your cause half the time, so it might be wiser to leave them out, we can all throw scriptures about.

I asked

God: Man (made in image of God)

so man is god.

Father: Like Man's Soul

where is this in the bible

Son: Like Man's Body

where is this in the bible

Holy Spirit: Like Man's Spirit

where is this in the bible

You replied

God: Man (made in image of God)

? so man is god.

No, man is made in the image of God.
And God said, Let us make man in our image , after our likeness:
God's image has a plurality, as the verse says.

Father: Like Man's Soul

where is this in the bible

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
The Father is the soul of God, the soul is pleased or displeased with things. The soul is the seat of human emotion, made in the image of God.
Soul Defined:
1. The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.

Son: Like Man's Body

where is this in the bible

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus, was made flesh and dwelt amongst men, hence his name "Emmauel" which is interpreted "God with Us"



Holy Spirit: Like Man's Spirit

where is this in the bible

The spirit does not speak but groans preverbaly to make intercession:

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

so I ask again because there are no direct corralation, between the question I ask and the scriptures you used. so I rephased it

God: : Man (made in image of God)

you place man on equal par with god, so therefore man must be god

Father : Like Man's Soul

lets rephrase it, where in the bible is this interpretation written

Son : Like Man's Body

where in the bible is this interpretation written

Holy Spirit : Like Man's Spirit

”where in the bible is this interpretation written

this is not arguement I want to know as I have never seen your interpretation written in the bible, so you should state it's you interpretation.

because this

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

what soul
this

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

what body
and this

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

this is the only one that comes close, what spirit, clarify.
none answer the questions, could you also supply the books and passages for those scriptures.

Musta said:because this

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

what soul

The voice (soul) that spoke was God the Father. He says Jesus is His Son, and the Holy Spirit came down from heaven and landed on Jesus.

this

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

what body

Jesus is the "Word" that was made flesh and dwelt amongst men, and he is the only begotten of the Father.
“

and this

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."this is the only one that comes close,

what spirit, clarify.

The "Spirit" is the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit of God takes the prayers of a believer, and intercedes to God the Father on the believer's behalf. The imperfections in a believer's prayer are "filtered out" by the Holy Spirit, as the best case is presented to God the Father. Jesus advocates the believer before God the Father.

none answer the questions, could you also supply the books and passages for those scriptures.

They can be looked up in a bible concordance, just plug in part of the verse in the search toolbar on this link:

On-Line Concordance

I can not explain what God looks like. The explanations are from bible scholars I know personally, that have studied the character of the God of the Bible for all of their lives. The "triune" illustration applied to mankind is only an analogy, but it works pretty well. None of the prophets can explain what God truely looks like. Moses came the closest to seeing God "face-to-face" in his true form:

Father God of the Bible says:

And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

So God has a face, a hand, and a back. A facial view is fatal for any form of imperfection:

Father God of the Bible:

Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Quite a change from the Garden of Eden!

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I have not seen God personally, but I do know from the scriptures that man is made in the image of God. The scriptures do not tell us that man is equal to God, rather there is a great similarity between man and God.

Man is triune (in some respects like God): Man has a body, a soul, and a spirit (spirit applies only if he/she is born again according to scpritures). If a person is not born again they only have a body and a soul. The spirit component of man died in the garden of eden. This is why a second birth is required for all of mankind to be reconciled with God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

5 John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

6 Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

7 Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

8 Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

10 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

this is not answer to what I ask, this is just preaching.

 

[Woody]

Musta,

First of all, before we even talk about God (and His image). Do you agree that man has:

o a physical body? (of course you agree on that one)
o an intellectual cognizance that has emotional wants and needs? (this is what Christians call a soul) -- Athiests might agree with the definition of a soul, but to them the soul dies when the body dies. Christians believe the souls of all people continue after death.
o a spirit? (an atheist would disagree here)

The spiritual realm is real. before I became a Christian, I dabbled with sorcery. I know a person that consults with familiar spirits (necromancy) to locate dead bodies of people that have disappeared and nobody else can locate them. How do you explain this in a physical/rational/materialistic world? I can explain other events that have no rational earthly explanation --the spiritual realm is THE only explanation. I know it is real, and it is dangerous -- stay away from it!

With these things said about body, soul, and spirit, man is created in God's image.

reference chapter and verse:

Genesis 1:26,27

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The grammar is correct. God's image has a plurality to it, hence He says "Let us make man in our image."

God's image also has a singularity to it, hence He says "So God created man in his own image."

My question to you is: How can God's image be both a singularity and a plurality? How is man's image like God's?

My answer (which agrees with fundamental christianity) is that man is a triune creature just like God is a triune creator: that is how man was created in God's own image. Man's spirit died in the garden of Eden, and without a new spiritual birth, man is doomed to have only a body and a soul:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Without a spirit, humanity does not have "life" the way God meant it to be from the beginning. Instead, man is stuck with his aging, deteriorating flesh, and a wandering soul with no eternal purpose.

I am sure I have frustrated you by now, so I'll stop.

The things I have spoken here are directly aligned with fundamental christianity -- and this is pretty much universally accepted doctrine -- Christianity 101, as it were.

 

[mustafhakofi]

Musta,

First of all, before we even talk about God (and His image).

firstly I've no dispute with the god image, you put man and god together as one, this was not a question it was a statement(woody said :God: Man (made in image of God) musta replied :you placed man on equal par with god, so therefore man must be god.

Do you agree that man has:
o a physical body? (of course you agree on that one)
o an intellectual cognizance that has emotional wants and needs? (this is what Christians call a soul) -- Athiests might agree with the definition of a soul, but to them the soul dies when the body dies. Christians believe the souls of all people continue after death.
o a spirit? (an atheist would disagree here)

I agree with the first but not the next two, but this has no relevance, to the questions ask you see exactly what I mean ( boring)

The spiritual realm is real. before I became a Christian, I dabbled with sorcery. I know a person that consults with familiar spirits (necromancy) to locate dead bodies of people that have disappeared and nobody else can locate them. How do you explain this in a physical/rational/materialistic world? I can explain other events that have no rational earthly explanation --the spiritual realm is THE only explanation. I know it is real, and it is dangerous -- stay away from it!

With these things said about body, soul, and spirit, man is created in God's image.

reference chapter and verse:

Genesis 1:26,27

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The grammar is correct. God's image has a plurality to it, hence He says "Let us make man in our image."

God's image also has a singularity to it, hence He says "So God created man in his own image."

My question to you is: How can God's image be both a singularity and a plurality? How is man's image like God's?

My answer is that man is a triune creature just like God is a triune creator: that is how man was created in God's own image. Man's spirit died in the garden of Eden, and without a new spiritual birth, man is doomed to have only a body and a soul.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Without a spirit, humanity does not have "life" the way God meant it to be from the beginning. Istead, man is stuck with his aging, deteriorating flesh, and a wandering soul with no eternal purpose.

all totally irrelevant, question not answered, just preaching.

I am sure I have frustrated you by now, so I'll stop.

no but it is boring, especially as the questions are so simple.