Holy texts should be respected by scholars

[(Q)]

If there are, it is wrong wrong wrong.

If? Haven't you been paying attention? Thousands... every day...

Which one ( or is that classified too?)

There are several, stretching from Morrocco, all along the northern part of Africa to Syria, Iraq, Saudi and Turkey. I'm sure many have been to Islamic countries. Perhaps I've been more than you?

I can only speak what I know about.

Yes, that has been a problem.

Why do we fast 30 days in Ramadan? To know what hunger and thirst is.

I do what I can, but I know its not enough. I wish I could do more.

Substitute less prayer for more action. It's always worked for me.

We all should; if we spent all the money we do for war in feeding the children, there would be more than enough. Human beings are selfish; and nowadays, they have lost sight of what is imporatnt in life.

You are right about the children. We should help them; it is our responsibility as human beings. What can I say? There are no easy answers.

You're right, the answers are hard - hard to accept.

 

[S.A.M.]

If? Haven't you been paying attention? Thousands... every day...

didn't mean it that way. Sorry

There are several, stretching from Morrocco, all along the northern part of Africa to Syria, Iraq, Saudi and Turkey. I'm sure many have been to Islamic countries. Perhaps I've been more than you?

Yes, you have. ( Hmm, so not 21; 25?)

Yes, that has been a problem.

I'm sure you'll fill in the gaps

Substitute less prayer for more action. It's always worked for me.

I do believe in action; I've always believed that work IS worship.

( and I dislike that you make assumptions about who or what I am)

You're right, the answers are hard - hard to accept.

The tragedy of life.

 

[S.A.M.]

I have a question; if I am following the philosophy of my religion in a good way and encouraging others to do the same, why do you insist on trying to "convert" me? Surely if I can do good as a human being, it should not matter whether I profess a faith or not? I work hard, lead a clean life, get along with most people, stand up for myself and my principles and try to help people when and as much as I can. I don't care what color, nationality, sexual orientation or affiliation people are.

So what does it matter if I believe in sky fairies or the jolly green giant or God?

 

[lightgigantic]

I have a question; if I am following the philosophy of my religion in a good way and encouraging others to do the same, why do you insist on trying to "convert" me? Surely if I can do good as a human being, it should not matter whether I profess a faith or not? I work hard, lead a clean life, get along with most people, stand up for myself and my principles and try to help people when and as much as I can. I don't care what color, nationality, sexual orientation or affiliation people are.

So what does it matter if I believe in sky fairies or the jolly green giant or God?

I guess people have a problem with it when you represent a catergory that threatens their catergory - the threat could be imaginary or real but it culminates in the same phenomena - namely discrimination

 

[LiveInFaith]

rationalities, and irrationalities.

Why push everyone to live in fully rational life when people also have irrational things? As long as no proof showing non-existence of irrationality, then forcing everyone to be fully rational is a violation against free will.

I have faith, I know it is irrational. Since none can convince me how to change it into rationality, or to rationalise the substance of which I faith in, then I live with it. Part of my live is irrational, and I believe, it boosts my large portion of rationality into maximum level. No one get hurts because of that, instead they get my hand to lend when they need. I try to live by the "holytext".

It gets me ill to think beyond ratio, then the medicine for my soul is my faith. I believe there are things beyond ratio, while atheist may think all things should be within ratio to think about. Well, why not keeping that differences while there is no proof to show which one is true.

 

[lightgigantic]

rationalities, and irrationalities.

Why push everyone to live in fully rational life when people also have irrational things? As long as no proof showing non-existence of irrationality, then forcing everyone to be fully rational is a violation against free will.

I have faith, I know it is irrational. Since none can convince me how to change it into rationality, or to rationalise the substance of which I faith in, then I live with it. Part of my live is irrational, and I believe, it boosts my large portion of rationality into maximum level. No one get hurts because of that, instead they get my hand to lend when they need. I try to live by the "holytext".

It gets me ill to think beyond ratio, then the medicine for my soul is my faith. I believe there are things beyond ratio, while atheist may think all things should be within ratio to think about. Well, why not keeping that differences while there is no proof to show which one is true.

The problem with this is that faith without philosophy becomes fanatcism, just as science without a sense of the absolute is a waste of time ....

 

[(Q)]

I have a question; if I am following the philosophy of my religion in a good way and encouraging others to do the same, why do you insist on trying to "convert" me?

Who said anyone is trying to convert you? All that has been asked is to question your religion and expose its contradictions.

Surely if I can do good as a human being, it should not matter whether I profess a faith or not? I work hard, lead a clean life, get along with most people, stand up for myself and my principles and try to help people when and as much as I can. I don't care what color, nationality, sexual orientation or affiliation people are.

Then, why do you need religion?

So what does it matter if I believe in sky fairies or the jolly green giant or God?

Why don't you believe in the jolly green giant? Or unicorns? Or flying pink dragons?

 

[(Q)]

The problem with this is that faith without philosophy becomes fanatcism, just as science without a sense of the absolute is a waste of time ....

Then, according to your logic, science IS a waste of time.

Will you be moving back to a cave anytime soon?

Didn't think so.

 

[S.A.M.]

Who said anyone is trying to convert you? All that has been asked is to question your religion and expose its contradictions.

But the contradictions are imposed by people's perceptions, which are not restricted to religion and which can be changed by education and reform

Then, why do you need religion?

Because that IS my philosophy.

Why don't you believe in the jolly green giant? Or unicorns? Or flying pink dragons?

I might for all you know; my question is why is it anyone else's business?

If my philosophy helps me to lead the kind of life that is desirable to me (and not undesirable to society), it makes no difference what I do or do not believe in. Otherwise, it is plain and simple discrimination.

 

[(Q)]

rationalities, and irrationalities.

Why push everyone to live in fully rational life when people also have irrational things? As long as no proof showing non-existence of irrationality, then forcing everyone to be fully rational is a violation against free will.

Why be irrational about only your faith, why not everything else? Why one god over another? Why not believe in Zeus?

 

[S.A.M.]

Why be irrational about only your faith, why not everything else? Why one god over another? Why not believe in Zeus?

Because everyone has a right to CHOOSE what he believes in?

 

[S.A.M.]

Then, according to your logic, science IS a waste of time.

No this is your logic; science is not a waste of time; science without morality is a waste of time. Science is amoral, it can lead to greater good or evil.

The ability to distinguish between the two is morality.

 

[(Q)]

But the contradictions are imposed by people's perceptions, which are not restricted to religion and which can be changed by education and reform

No, the contradictions are ignored by those who refuse to acknowledge them. If reformation was required that would show that the religion is flawed or false. Education will not help unless the contradictions are acknowledged.

Because that IS my philosophy.

Don't you mean the philosophy in which you designed from Islam? Are you trying to tell me that you follow Islam to the letter? And what is so different from the philosophy you embrace and a philosophy not of a religion?

I might for all you know; my question is why is it anyone else's business?

It would be everyones business if those beliefs were crammed down their throats, or were used in decision making processes that affected other people's lives, which is the issue with religion.

If my philosophy helps me to lead the kind of life that is desirable to me (and not undesirable to society), it makes no difference what I do or do not believe in. Otherwise, it is plain and simple discrimination.

If the philosophy you hold includes that which IS undesirable to society and does in fact discriminate, then it does make a difference.

 

[S.A.M.]

No, the contradictions are ignored by those who refuse to acknowledge them. If reformation was required that would show that the religion is flawed or false. Education will not help unless the contradictions are acknowledged.

This is your opinion and I hereby declare it irrational and indicative of your prejudice against religion.

Don't you mean the philosophy in which you designed from Islam? Are you trying to tell me that you follow Islam to the letter? And what is so different from the philosophy you embrace and a philosophy not of a religion?

My philosophy is based Islamic philosophy. The only requirement for this is to believe in peace. The Quran clearly declares that Islam is the religion of peace, that family values, charity, personal responsibilty and the desire for knowledge are important components for a stable and dynamic society. These principles are reiterated in the Quran in many different ways. It is my philosophy of life, derived from my study of Islam.

It would be everyones business if those beliefs were crammed down their throats, or were used in decision making processes that affected other people's lives, which is the issue with religion.

I see the same issues with all atheists in this forum.

If the philosophy you hold includes that which IS undesirable to society and does in fact discriminate, then it does make a difference.

HAH! and the atheist philosophy YOU propose is doing exactly that, to theists, so what makes you so infallible?

 

[(Q)]

Because everyone has a right to CHOOSE what he believes in?

Not if affects other people's lives.

 

[(Q)]

This is your opinion and I hereby declare it irrational and indicative of your prejudice against religion.

A theist is unable to determine what is rational and what is not.

My philosophy is based Islamic philosophy. The only requirement for this is to believe in peace. The Quran clearly declares that Islam is the religion of peace, that family values, charity, personal responsibilty and the desire for knowledge are important components for a stable and dynamic society. These principles are reiterated in the Quran in many different ways. It is my philosophy of life, derived from my study of Islam.

You didn't mention whether you follow it to the letter or only the parts you designed?

I see the same issues with all atheists in this forum.

Yes, most atheists here are sick and tired of theists cramming their nonsense down our throats and having it affect our lives.

HAH! and the atheist philosophy YOU propose is doing exactly that, to theists, so what makes you so infallible?

Which philosophy? The one in which atheists hold not to do harm to others? Yes, I can understand how that would have a negative impact to Muslims. They could no longer kill apostates. Bummer, huh?

BTW - have you been praying for Allah to feed the starving children? I noticed they're still dying each day. I suppose those prayers will never be answered.

Allah really knows how to dish out the challenges, doesn't he?

 

[S.A.M.]

Not if affects other people's lives.

Unless you live in a bubble Q, everything you do or don't do affects people's lives.

If you want the effect to be a good one, you have to educate and reform.

What is the guarantee that the atheists won't do the same thing the fundamentalists are doing?

Do you know who the most dangerous man is in the world?

The one who is absolutely convinced that he is right; certainty in a man means he is unwilling to consider anything less than what HE believes is right.

You're a scientist, right? What do you think of the concept of certainty in science? How certain should one be?

And if you think your ideology is the right one, its going to affect other people.

You need to make sure its the right effect, the one that you're aiming for. That is your responsibility.

So how certain are YOU that you are right?

Are you willing to accept people for whom the definition of right is different from yours?

No man, how great his ideology can predict what effect it will have on others.

No one.

 

[lightgigantic]

Then, according to your logic, science IS a waste of time.

Will you be moving back to a cave anytime soon?

Didn't think so.

I think it was einstein who said that he wasn't sure what weapons would be used to fight the third world war but he was sure that the fourth one would be fought with rocks and sticks -

we could be moving back to the cave sooner than you think

 

[S.A.M.]

Hey Q:

I've started an experiment for you.

Look at the new thread on "are atheists discriminatory towards theists"

 

[(Q)]

Unless you live in a bubble Q, everything you do or don't do affects people's lives.

Not when theists are making changes to society based on their irrational beliefs. I don't go around killing people simply because they want to leave their faith.

If you want the effect to be a good one, you have to educate and reform.

Education is fine, but religion can't be reformed, that would make it flawed to begin with. Why would it need reform if it's perfect?

What is the guarantee that the atheists won't do the same thing the fundamentalists are doing?

Such as what?

Do you know who the most dangerous man is in the world?

The one who is absolutely convinced that he is right; certainty in a man means he is unwilling to consider anything less than what HE believes is right.

Isn't that exactly what Muhammed claimed? Yes, we knew he was the most dangerous man in the world, based on your logic, of course.

You're a scientist, right? What do you think of the concept of certainty in science? How certain should one be?

As certain as a working theory works, until a better one comes along. What's your point?

And if you think your ideology is the right one, its going to affect other people.

To stop believing in sky daddies? How is that a problem?

You need to make sure its the right effect, the one that you're aiming for. That is your responsibility.

So how certain are YOU that you are right?

How can non-beliefs in sky daddies be wrong? How can doing no harm to others be wrong?

Are you willing to accept people for whom the definition of right is different from yours?

Not doing harm to others is wrong, how?

No man, how great his ideology can predict what effect it will have on others.

No one.

What about Muhammed?